- This topic has 31 replies, 14 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 6 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
Have you seen the Yaffed Billboard on the Prospect Expressway saying Its a Mitzvah and the Law to teach secular studies?
It said its a chiyuv to teach your son a profession – ??????.
In general, is it proper for us to post such billboards? I’m not saying it is, but I’m not sure it’s 100% ok
They should put up a billboard that says its a chiyuv to teach your son Emunah.
Just because we have become indoctrinated that Torah is the only umnus (for which one must be rational and question whether this is for every single person), that does not make the billboard less than 100% OK. The sponsors are aware that not every bochur is destined to be klai kodesh, and cookie cutting them to remain in full time learning is likely NOT ratzon Hashem. The message is to remember the holy words of Chazal, then interpret them according to what HKB”H really demands of us.
Maybe not every single bochur should take secular studies. But that none should be prepared for work is equally if not more ridiculous.
This is making the Torah a ?????? ????? ???. As much as we have been accustomed to do so in the yeshiva/Kollel world, it is still Assur without question for Yaffed to promote their Org. via this billboard.
That being said, I don’t think that they care.
How else do you expect for Yaffed to get out their message?
Either by not having the Org. name on the billboard and just getting the message out, or excluding the Halacha.
I see no reason why people are objecting to Yaffed. Do they think that America can raise a generation of poor people solely dependant on the government and outside sponsors like they do in Israel?
ZD: I have no problem with the message, had they not included their name prominently. The same idea (work is a Chiyuv) would have been proclaimed, but without being an ad for their company.
On the YAFFED website under the “who we are” section, after stating why the organization was started they write:
“We, therefore, have come together to effect change, to work in concert with community leaders and public officials in order to create an improved and more diverse curriculum in our schools……”
What “community leaders” are they working in concert with by the placement of this billboard? The communities targeted by the billboard in particular and the groups overall activities in general are led by a Rebbe. How many Rebbes were consulted prior to the creation of this group or the placement of this billboard? How many community leaders are actually working with this group? I see this garnering lots of media attention and very little in the way of anything meaningful and real.
To their credit though, YAFFED is not hiding behind anonymous billboards and advertisements. They give the names and contact information of those who head up the group.
Feif Un once posted a story about his brother, who wanted to sit and learn, and asked R’ Chaim Segal zt”l (from Chaim Berlin) if he could stop attending secular studies (this was in 11th grade). R’ Segal refused to allow it.
My younger brother also attended Chaim Berlin, although R’ Segal was no longer alive. He also asked about stopping secular studies, and R’ Braunstein refused to allow him to drop out. He told him that he needed a high school diploma.
When Yisro had an idea he went to Moshe Rabbeinu. When Korach had an idea he rallied the masses.
I liked the billboard going into Manhattan warning people that they’re about to enter a Makom Tumah.
ZD,
Did you have a secular education?
And secular education is clearly not the halacha, if anything, it is a trade, as noted a bunch of times already.
Does your trade require the use of advanced education?
ZD,
Your reasoning for him posting the sign does not quite conform to the pasuk in Reah:
??? ????????? ?????? ?????? ????????? ??????? ???? ??????? ????? ????-????????? ??????????
Many graduates of black-hat yeshivos are sadly unprepared for college study.
While it takes linguistic and logical skill to decipher Gemara, the skills needed to properly analyze and contextualize texts, formulate a thesis and write a quality paper, etc. are missing in the yeshivos, and students, therefore, cannot properly function in the collegiate setting.
ZD,
You did not answer the question I asked.
Do you really have a College Degree?
Do you have a Job? Is it a job that requires “Higher” education or a degree?
Can you get such a job solely by dint of having a degree even if one was clearly uneducated.
YAFFED (at least in their literature – I know nothing about them except what I read online at their site) does not appear to be advocating college for anyone.
It’s not about college degrees, it’s about secular education in high school. It’s become a fad in some frum communities for high schools to forgo secular studies altogether. The ironic thing is, it’s not at the behest of the Rabbonim, it’s in order to attract more talmidim as many parents will refuse to send their children to a school that teaches math and sciences. Oddly enough, no Rabbonim have enough of an objection to the practice to stand against it, so it continues.
There is a huge number of talmidim in a this generation who are not fit for kollel life, but even less fit for finding a decent paying job. Yaffed feels that it’s the klals responsibility to see that this doesn’t continue. That is all.
Can someone please explain to me why this is in all objectional?
Zd,
I have been working several years and I have interviewed many, many individuals for positions at a professional services organization. I would not have been able to tell that you have a degree from an advanced institution.
I will tell you that I have noted marked difference between the individuals who have learned in yeshiva and kollel before pursuing their training and those who have not.
For the most part they are much quicker at picking up and applying concepts and regulations. They also understand what they are doing rather than just doing their job by rote. They also have the skills to present their positions coherently on a more consistent basis than those who have not spent time learning in depth in yeshivah.
They also have the “zitz Fleish” to work long and hard at complex tasks.
These, for a large part, are individuals who obtained their degrees after learning for a number of years.
I know this is anecdotal , however It is not based only on one or two individuals but rather a substantial number of hires over several years.
Zd,
Don’t have to be an expert to take an educated guess, just educated.
A sentence such as “If you desire to be a box shlepper than college is not for you” might very well indicate a lack of a successful higher education.
In yeshivah one learns the difference between “then” and “than”. ????.
Is it true that people who have gone to college are not suited for jobs which require physical strength as well as persistence? ???? ????? I am sure that going to college makes one less suited for a job such as being a Rov or Posek, but how does it make one less suited for a job such as schlepping boxes?
“how does it make one less suited for a job such as schlepping boxes?”
Would you hire someone who had one foot out the door before their first day on the job. Typically, those who are overqualified for a position are always looking for something that fits their skill set. It is not fair to the company to hire someone who is already looking to leave. Of course, if you are the company and you wish to do chessed with your business, that is your right, however, a hiring manager whose first obligation to his employer does not typically have such leeway. From their perspective, over qualified candidates are simply not a good fit.
Funny.
I’m a high school drop-out yet I started up and and run asuccessful buisness that was given that was started with money from a person who got a degree then decided to purue a different course and regrets his degree as a “waste of time”.
And then again I was just taiking with a top Dr. in a Manhattan Hospital who was trained in Isreal and himself is a religous though not yeshivish by a long shot, and he told me that the top students his class were those with a Gemora background.
I am all in favor of strong secular studies in high schools. However I am not in favor of Jewish Organizations using billboards (that are viewed by Jews and non-Jews alike) to get out their message.
Additionally, it is not clear at all that we pasken there is a chiyuv to teach your child an umnus. As far as I know it is not brought down in Sh”A.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.