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Mobe613:
This often happens when young men (or men of any age really) go out in public places that are outside of where frum yiddin usually are . . . usually this is also accompanied by wearing clothes that are not usually worn by bnei torah at home (ie like khaki pants or a tshirt/polo shirt.)
You must not know many bnei Torah. I know many, many, many, bnei Torah who wear khaki pants and polo shirts, not only at home, but also to work and (gasp!) even to daven.
wear the baseball cap when you drive ,so you dont make a chillul hashem
“Taka- polo shirts to work? Thats not very professional.”
At what profession are his friends employed that a polo shirt is not very professional?
In a law firm or on Wall Street, you couldn’t wear a polo.
Walter 😉
Mobe613, okay. Now what? 😀
Why do you assume his friends work at a law firm on wall street? Perhaps they work behind the deli counter at the wall street deli where polo shirts are appropriate.
Popas posts are all important. How else would we know when he’s going skiing? I for one would love to join, but I joined the coffee room a bit too late for that. I think.
Not too late. You are welcome to join. I will be staying at the Alyeska Hostel from Mar 17 to Mar 21. It is 20 bucks for a bunk, and like 50 bucks for a lift ticket.
????–??? ??????? ????? ?????? (I’m so glad my wife doesn’t read this.)
He’s trying to establish a (very shaky) premise so he can argue some more.
It’s alright mobe613, we are here for you, let it all out so we can psychoanalyze the package as a whole instead of the bits and pieces you’re chucking in our faces.
I think I’ll easily admit that when I go on vacation, I dress so that it is not obvious that I am frum, and I deliberately do so.
Mobe’s proof was actually inapposite, since when I snowboard, I dress in normal snowboarding gear, which necessarily means I don’t look frum. But I’ll concede it anyway.
I do so probably for several reasons. The main one is that I want to be friends with the people I meet on the hiking trail, or on the ski lift, and I don’t want them to focus on my differences.
At the same time, in my regular life, I am in a non-jewish environment, and I deliberately dress like a yeshiva guy, and deliberately do stand out as different.
And I’ll even readily concede that we are supposed to dress and look different, and are supposed to stand out as different–because we are different, and we want to remember that and want our relationships with others to take that into consideration. So perhaps there is a good tayna on me for what I do on vacation.
And that’s what I have to say about this topic. And if you show up at the hostel looking like a yeshiva guy, I will be thrilled.
Mobe613
Have you ever been “Out of town” places where they think jews have horns or killed their savior, or where every other word out of their mouth is “the savior” and how much they love him.
Alright, Mobe613, you have a point. People wear baseball caps instead of yarmulkas. Some people do it to deliberately conceal the fact that they are Jewish when they are in the outside world. Some people do it because there is a very real sakanah. Some do it because it is very difficult to snowboard down a mountain wearing only a yarmulka. Some do it because…[fill in your own reason here]. Okay. That’s established. It bothers you that people wear a cap instead of a yarmulka so they won’t look out of place or different among the goyim. I’m sorry to hear that you’re so disturbed. You are justified in feeling disturbed. And I am justified for thinking that you are slightly quacked for picking such a trivial thing to be disturbed about. Seriously, there are many worse problems in the frum world to flip out about. Why, of all things, is THIS topic so close to your heart?
Popa:
Yes I’m definitely coming. And we won’t be wearing any baseball caps, so it will be a “kosher” excursion. I think Kosher enough for mobe613 to join. If not for the skiing part, then for the Journalism aspect to it.
And we may as well “hijack” this post, the same way 90% of the other important posts get hi-jacked.
mobe613:
Everybody will wear whatever they’re comfortable in. Why don’t you join just to take the photos?
Some will be wearing ski masks. Others will be in their yarmulkes. I’m sure some dudes will wear their black hats, and straw hats, and I’m pretty sure they’ll be a guy or 2 in bicycle helmets. This sight will be worth it to cover live, so don’t send anyone, come yourself.
We don’t only bring up problems. Every once in a while, someone will bring up their itinerary. Feel free to share yours, especially when it becomes fun and interesting.
I think that the vast majority of people wearing baseball caps/sweatshirts are doing it for perfectly innocent reasons, but I also think that there are indeed times when people wear such clothing in order to “not be Jewish”, and that doing so is highly inappropriate.
Also, mobe613 has been nothing but serious and civilized, and there is no reason for such angry and abusive responses. If you disagree, feel free to let us know; but try to match mobe’s courteous tone.
shnitzy:
Alright, shnitzy, you have a point. Perhaps the OP blew this problem slightly out of proportion. I’m sorry to hear that you’re so disturbed. You are justified in feeling disturbed. And I am justified for thinking that you are slightly quacked for picking such a trivial thing to be disturbed about. Seriously, there are many worse problems in the frum world to flip out about. Why, of all things, is THIS topic so close to your heart?
Not wanting to look conspicuously frum can be necessary for pikuach nefesh purposes.
rebdoniel
“Not wanting to look conspicuously frum can be necessary for pikuach nefesh purposes.”
It often also enables one to think Hashem isnt looking.
RD:
What percentage of people wearing not-frum looking clothing do you think are in actual mortal danger?
Try having your car break down in Brownsville with a big velvet kippah at 11 at night and you need help with vilde hayes surrounding you merely because you’re Jewish and white.
You’re not answering the question: what percentage of people wearing baseball caps do you think are doing so because they find themselves in such a situation?
Perhaps in the future, the baseball cap will be the signature hat of the frum Jew.
After all, the Shtreimel possibly originated with the Tatars, and the Borsalino hat was created in Alessandria, Italy by Giuseppe Borsalino.
It’s not impossible that the baseball cap will supplant them.
Mobe613, I hope you are wearing a baseball cap while posting all this stuff… so you don’t make a chilul Hashem.
I am obsessed with borsalinos.
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