Yeah, I know you meant well but…

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  • #1792732

    HIE
    Participant

    So It comes before Rosh Hashona, and everyone is busy making calls and wishing everyone wonderful brochos. When you meet people in the street it’s w”Ksiva Vchasim Tova” and those type of brochos. It’s soo wonderful. It really is. Everyone is wishing the next brochos.

    Among those out there are thousands of singles, girls and boys alike. They also are the recipients of these brochos. But by them it seems very different. I’ll elaborate.

    Let’s say you have a friend who has been married for a few years and hasn’t had a kid yet. Most people realize that it becomes a very sensitive topic for that person. And when giving that person a brocha I don’t think that most people would explicitly state that they should be zocha to have a kid this year, or that “This year should be the year”. I think it’s very well understood that since it’s a sensitive topic you wouldn’t speak it out like that and you would just give a general brocha.

    So now back to Shidduchim. Why when it comes to singles do people not realize that it’s a sensitive topic. and it’s a stab in the heart when one gives a brocha that “this should be the year”. Or that one should find “their zivug hagun bekorov”. Or….here’s a new one. So your standing next to a guy on Rosh Hashona…and he says “Next year you should come back with at talis” SHKOYACH. Here’s a VERY common one. You come to join in your friends simcha and enhance his chasuna. And you go wish him Mazel tov…and what does he reply? IYH by u! Yes we all know that everyone means well. But understand that when one comes to enhance your simcha he perhaps wants to forget about his own problems and join you in your simcha. And when he gets wished “IYH by you” he’s getting reminded of his own problems and getting stabbed in his heart.

    This is just my personal opinion which I think represents the vast majority of singles. What does the CR have to say?

    #1792965

    Joseph
    Participant

    WB Hashem Is Everywhere! It’s been a long time since you’ve last commented.

    #1792989

    David Y
    Participant

    There is a lot of free advice out there that can end up being very costly. If someone initiates the topic as to why someone is still single it seems as though they are just checking if the person is “normal” – otherwise they would be married, right? My suggestion is, do not bring up the topic unless you are prepared to actively help the person find a partner. That means you already have a possible shiduch . Moreover, don’t give unsolicited advice such as “go on such-a-such website”. You could end up making things ten times worse. Also, how do you think the person will feel when they go home alone after your little talk?

    #1793193

    HIE
    Participant

    Hey Thank you for the welcome Joseph! I’m usually totally disconnected from internet access Thank God in Yeshiva!

    #1793248

    I know someone who told his chaver on Simchas Torah after chosson bereishis May you be zocheh to stand under another chupa this year, and that year the chaver’s daughter found her zivug and he takeh stood under another chupa that year. Just shows that a birkas hedyot given with the best of intentions can be mekuyem.

    #1793296

    Joseph
    Participant

    HIE: Do you think couples without children for a long time sould not be given the kovod and inherent bracha of being kvatter at a Bris?

    #1793367

    whitecar
    Participant

    When i was single the worst feeling was being forgotten and not feeling that it didnt bother anyone that i was still single. Being given brochos and stuff… felt good cause, I got a anf secondly it means i was in someones thought and not forgotten and given up on.

    #1793369

    monseyshechita
    Participant

    Everyone has nisyonos. A well meant Bracha is a beautiful thing. Most people with these struggles I know would appreciate the Bracha rather than feel badly because of it. They are aware of the Nisayon, and appreciate the thoughts of other people.

    The opposite scenario- Not giving the Bracha to such a person- They may feel just as bad that you are not thinking about them! Imagine an older single going up to a Chosson/ Kallah to wish Mazal Tov and not getting anything back, just thanks etc. Wouln’t they feel bad they aren’t being thought of?

    #1793442

    HIE
    Participant

    Wow. I’m happy to see that there is another opinion on this!

    I’m just thinking that those that appreciate it may be of the female gender so it may just be a difference in nature. That’s just a thought but I could be wrong.

    Additionally, it seems that some people here think that if a single doesn’t receive the “iy’h by you”, it means that he or she is not being thought about.

    I beg to differ on that one. You don’t need to remind me openly that i’m single to show that your thinking of me. If you just give the single a call or even a text to say hello and see how he or she is doing also shows that you care about him. If when you see the single by a wedding or event you strike conversation and genuinely show that you care about the person WITHOUT openly reminding the person that he’s single, also shows the person you care. In many cases the person will appreciate a warm hug.
    If you think of a shidduch for the person and mention it also shows you care.

    monsey shechita-just because the person doesn’t wish back iy’h by you bekorov, doesn’t mean he doesn’t care. If he says “Thanks so much for coming I really appreciate it, it means so much to me, and a big hug, I wouldn’t think most people would feel bad. But again, I could be wrong here.

    Joseph- I’m just recalling the good old CR days, I think we used to fight alot back then(:

    But I don’t think that the kvata thing is so openly reminding someone that their single. Rather most people would feel good that their cared about.

    Have I addressed everyone?(:

    #1793452

    CG1994
    Participant

    FINALLY!
    …….do you ever read the shidduch roundtable-check out this weeks?
    and just for the record-there’s iyH by you…..and then there’s IYH!!!!! BY!!!! YOU!!!!
    and just to add to your list ever went to a Simcha or in shul and a guy stops you and tells you his ideas for you in front of everyone?

    #1793467

    Joseph
    Participant

    Joseph- I’m just recalling the good old CR days, I think we used to fight alot back then(:

    Hey, I’m more than happy to bring back the good ‘ole days. Say over a nice juicy shtickel of apikorsus and I’ll be down your back in a jiffy. 😂

    #1793582

    HIE
    Participant

    wow big dissss over there, Joseph!

    CG1994: I’m happy to hear im not the only 1994er alone in this one…

    #1793636

    Mount
    Participant

    I’m actually a single girl and I do relate quite a bit- I agree that the worst feeling is ‘feeling forgotten about,’ but I do find it comforting when people tell me that they’re davening for me…

    What I really dislike is the fact that single girls (I’m not sure if it applies to boys as well) can be at work (I’m talking about a frum environment) and will always be 2nd class- no matter the age (think: opinion, wages, hours). As soon as one has a sheital on their head (and probably a Tallis too :-)), the Parsha seems to change completely!

    My favorite line is always “Those hours are fine for you because you don’t have a family…”

    #1793711

    HIE
    Participant

    Mount: I definitely feel your pain. Even for non working boys there’s those things that your just treated younger even if ur 28. For example gelila is usually given to kids or younger people. Now, it happens to be that its a zechus to do it. But the minhag became that its given to younger. So there could be a shul full of married guys 22 and a single guy 28. The 28 year old will often get it. Now that’s a bit embarrassing. A friend of mine whose 30 told me he davens in a place where he’s the only bochur and the married guys aren’t old. He told me he got gelila EIGHT TIMES IN A ROW. EMBARRASSMENT.

    So all singles out there, were all in this together. Sometimes people aren’t as considerate as they should be. They don’t usually realize it. So we should be Dan lkaf zchus. Also, we should accept this as part of the nisayon. It’s hard. But it’s like any nisayon.

    #1793747

    HIE
    Participant

    This reminds of something a friend of mine told me. So this guy had separated and divorced unfortunately like 3 months after he got married. So we were schmoozing and he told me how some people were seemingly inconsiderate and rude to him without even realizing what they were saying.

    He told me an example. Right after he separated so he was out in a restaurant eating supper with his brother. One of his friends saw him and told him jokingly something along th lines of “your wife doesn’t make good enough food so you ran away to eat?”. …go figure…

    Not everyone realizes how things sound on the other end.

    #1793769

    CG1994
    Participant

    Mount: it’s rude that people assume you have more flexibility with hoursbut lets face it-you do

    #1793881

    David Y
    Participant

    What I believe is most important to address in relation to this matter is the maxim that “you should not embarrass your fellow in public” since bringing the blood to the face of your fellow is likened to spilling blood.
    The modern saying “I could have died!” attests to this ancient maxim.
    For example, on Simchah Torah as a fellow was departing the Bima, I overheard the Rabbi gently and quietly say to him “may you merit to have children by next year”.
    He didn’t blurt it out for the whole congregation to hear so therefore it was relatively acceptable. Having said that I now know that this gentleman and his wife are probably experiencing fertility problems and since I am not amongst their circle of intimate friends I assume that they might have be uncomfortable having that information “out there”.
    In relation to CG1994 comment, there is no information to support his or her assertion and so this illustrates the genesis of lashon hara. For example, a married couple born to wealthy families may well have nanny’s and all sorts of family support including subsidised income. The wife might not need to work and in fact they may have been well provided for from before the time that their marriage was arranged for them and everything handed to them on a silver platter.
    The single woman who CG1994 addresses clearly has to work for herself and has not been given a head start. Do you think she does nothing in her spare time? Perhaps she looks after a sick parent, her siblings or friends children, or actively attends women’s groups and shiurim. What gives CG1994 the right to jump to the conclusion that this single lady can be expected to drop her commitments?

    #1793899

    Mount
    Participant

    CG1994: Says who? You know what’s going on in every single person’s life? I wasn’t talking about the facts, I was referring to the sensitivity behind the comment.

    HIE: I agree 100%.
    Bottom line to everyone out there (and I’m talking to myself in different situations too), to try and think before blurting, too often we are hurting people without even realizing. The situations are endless…

    #1793983

    HIE
    Participant

    CG1994: Although that’s true, people gotta be more sensitive. period.

    #1793996

    Mount
    Participant

    David Y: That was articulated very well!

    #1794000

    CG1994
    Participant

    Mount-who can understand you more than me? Look-according to how you present your story I experience this all to many times myself. Is it rude? YES! Is it onas devarim-sure! However, I am learning that being overly sensitive about this makes it harder for you. I try and try and really try not to give two hoots about what rude people say because it’s painful and a waste of time. Sometimes it is easier to look at the facts and take it from there rather than analyze.

    #1794006

    klugeryid
    Participant

    To all
    It’s a bit ridiculous
    Tell someone, have a great day!!
    That’s insensitive! Maybe they are about to go for a chemo treatment and you don’t know about it
    Wish them nachas from their children? They have one child off the derech, or a child who died, so now you caused them pain.

    Ask for a favor? They would need to ask their husband or wife who doesn’t like to do it, now you made שלום בית problem

    Every action you do can potentially cause someone grief quite easily.
    Turns out New Yorkers, who for so long have been on the receiving end of excoriation for ignoring everyone, are actually the most sensitive people around!!!!
    Who knew!!

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