Yeshiva Bachur and his sister- Maras Ayin?

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  • #1516853

    Grandmama
    Participant

    Is a yeshiva bachur and his sister walking in the street maras ayin?

    #1516883

    jdb
    Participant

    No. We do not create new maras ayin, and this isn’t mentioned in the gemara.

    #1516895

    Joseph
    Participant

    Why would it be more of an issue than a Yeshiva guy walking in the street with his wife?

    #1516913

    icemelter
    Participant

    Maybe the sis isn’t married therefore has no sheitel so looks like hanging out. Thought of that?
    Could also mean they on a shidduch but why walk around

    #1516915

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    Is it maris ayin to walk with a male friend too,? Maybe people will think you are involved with a guy !

    #1516920

    Uncle Ben
    Participant

    Jdb; Did you learn the whole shas?
    What is mentioned in the Gemara is that a Talmid Chochom shouldn’t walk in the market with his wife so people shouldn’t think he’s walking with a woman who’s not his wife. Based on this Gemara many Yidden have a minhag to walk several feet in front of their wives when in public.

    #1516926

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    We do not generally poskin from a gemara.
    Is a talmod chochom allowed to walk with his sister?

    #1516981

    lesschumras
    Participant

    why should i care about what yentas talk about?

    #1516984

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    We also bring down from chazal many inyanim of the importance of honoring your wife and it would seem that making her walk several feet behind you would be a real bushah. I’ve walked around just about all the frum neighborhoods in BP, Willy, Lakewood, Monsey etc. on many shabbosim and yom tovim and the vast majority of couples out for a walk are walking side by side with the kids and talking like normal people. We cannot live our lives in fear of what some pervert might read into a normal function of a husband/wife simply walking together on a public street for all to see, dressed appropriately and acting appropriately. I’m sure you are right that there are some who might engage in the chumrah of making their wives walk several feet behind them but it would seem such bizarre behavior would make them stand out and attract more attention than walking together.

    #1517093

    apushatayid
    Participant

    tell whoever it is that might wonder, that he shouldnt be looking at females.

    #1517148

    Is it Maras Eyin to walk into a Mcdonalds if you need the bathroom?
    On some level, yes. But you have to be normal. You have the job of trying to make it look as normal as possible and other people’s job is to think favorably.

    #1517157

    RSo
    Participant

    Takes2-2tango: Talking with a women is brought lehalochoh in the Rambam Hil. Deos 5:7
    תלמיד חכם…לא יספר עם אשה בשוק ואפילו היא אשתו או אחותו או בתו

    #1517170

    Ploni
    Participant

    See avos Dr’s noson on the mishna of “al yesaper”, which assers walking with sister

    #1517171

    Ploni
    Participant

    The avos dr noson is rambams source

    #1517172

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    To rso:
    The rambam also says that a husband should control his wife leaving thier home to to not more then twice a month. Why are you picking only certain rambams. Say it all. Are u following all the rambam has to say?

    #1517174

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    Is a yeshiva bachur and his sister walking in the street maras ayin?
    ————————————-
    Assuming this is even a shyla, why is this question reserved only for a yeshiva bochur? Is it ok for a married guy? Is it ok for a non yeshiva bachur? Is it ok for a divorced guy? Please elaborate?

    #1517207

    Uncle Ben
    Participant

    Takes2; The Gemara that I referenced and the Rambam that Rso quoted referred to a Talmid Chochom. Does the Rambam you quote also do or is it speaking about a husband as you write?

    #1517208

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    There was a famous story about The Vilna Gaon and some of the Misnagim

    A Misnag went to the Vilna Gaon telling him a Chassid R’L had a women sitting on his lap during a meal on Tisha B’Av and the Vilna Gaon said Chassidis was Kefira

    When the Misnad did not tell the Vilna Gaon was the girl was the man’s daughter and the mean was on Shabbos T-sshia B’Av

    #1517311

    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    ZD,

    The story is not true and it is silly to even post it.

    #1517309

    ehrlich
    Participant

    There is a Tshuva from the the debrecine ruv that talks about this don’t know mare mekomos, but I do remember that he recalls that when he was a bachur and his sister was helping him fund his going to yeshiva and then once she came to visit and he walked it hte strewets with her and he got it from his Rebbe

    #1517303

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    While not explicitly stated, there is a concept of “rule of reason” that the McDonald’s analogy above makes very well We don’t blindly worry about how anyone might interpret anything we do….we use our sechel to reason which appearances would likely be misinterpreted by the large percentage of yidden, how that misperception might c’v lead others to repeat our inappropriate action(s) etc. , who else might be hurt etc. Walking on a public street in a heimeshe neighborhood with your wife/daughter where everyone knows everyone else and their family relationships isn’t likely to pass the “maris ayin materiality test”. For those who are machmir and hold by eruvim, perhaps hang a big sign on her back saying “I’m his wife/daughter”

    #1517329

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    The Rambam writes:
    However, it is degrading for a woman to be always going out, “one time outside and [another] time in the streets” (Mishlei 7:12). A husband should prevent his wife from doing so, and not let her go out more than once or twice a month, as needed. There is beauty in a woman only if she remains in the corner of her house, for it is so written, “kol kevudah bat melech penimah [the honor of a princess is all inward]” (Tehillim 45:14). (translation from R. Henkin’s English book, cited below)

    #1517335

    Joseph
    Participant

    Hadorah: Your sechel is insufficient to replace Halacha.

    #1517375

    BoruchSchwartz
    Participant

    my opinion is, for what it’s worth, that it takes 2 to tango

    #1517508

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    May 7, 2018 12:56 pm at 12:56 pm#1517309REPLY
    ehrlichParticipant
    There is a Tshuva from the the debrecine ruv that talks about this don’t know mare mekomos, but I do remember that he recalls that when he was a bachur and his sister was helping him fund his going to yeshiva and then once she came to visit and he walked it hte strewets with her and he got it from his Rebbe
    —————————————
    Just becauae “he got it from his rebbe” is no indication that its ossur.
    I Got it from my rebbe” for asking to go to the bathroom.does that mean anything?

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