January 10, 2019 11:23 am at 11:23 am #1660219
I was just wondering how you feel regarding a Mesivta in the Monsey area promoting and having a fundrasing event featuring cigar rolling and wine tasting. Posters have gone up with a large photo of a person with a cigar and in small letters it says benefiting Yeshiva…..These posters are hanging in local shuls.
I spoke to the administration of the Yeshiva and they told me “there is nothing wrong for a Yeshiva to promote such an event as it is for adults only.” They told me that “smoking is entirely fine and Mutar and if I have a problem with it…well..too bad.” I asked them are they concerned that the posters may send a bad nessage to children and they said “This is an adult event.” I responded saying that it is hanging in shuls. Kids and teenagers go to shul and perhaps the message may be that it is OK to do these things.
Is it in poor taste? Is it sending a message to kids that this is OK?
Or is it a situation of live and let live?
Thank you.January 10, 2019 3:39 pm at 3:39 pm #1660509MenoParticipant
I say we should all go and protest this terrible fundraiser.
When and where is it, (just so we know when to show up to protest)?
Also how does one RSVP (so we can tell them that we plan on showing up to protest)?January 10, 2019 3:44 pm at 3:44 pm #1660514
Smoking is bad, but wine is good.January 10, 2019 3:44 pm at 3:44 pm #1660512
Yeah, and which kinds of cigars and wine are they having?January 10, 2019 3:47 pm at 3:47 pm #1660520apushatayidParticipant
Does the “rabbinical board” of this Mesivta approve of the event?January 10, 2019 6:31 pm at 6:31 pm #1660525
I have no idea concerning what type of cigars…wines…etc. And yes, the Rabbinical does approve of it. Although, a friend of mine, got through to the Rosh Hayeshiva who agreed that the signs were inappropriate.January 10, 2019 6:31 pm at 6:31 pm #1660526lowerourtuition11210Participant
They cant inhale and drink at the same time.January 10, 2019 6:31 pm at 6:31 pm #1660536yitzykParticipant
How can they approve it or not if they haven’t tasted them yet? Once they taste them, the Cigars and Wine will bear a label Approved by Yeshiva Board!
But seriously – what exactly is so wrong with this, other than the general issur of smoking that so many people seem to not agree with? If a Yeshiva really wants big donations, they need to attract wealthy donors. A cotton-candy tasting event is not going to cut it. The “bessere menshin” think that they appreciate good wine and good cigars, and therefore this could have been a great idea.
Until some nudniks protested and brought them bad hype instead. This is an old story – Just because you don’t like an idea and wouldn’t show up yourself, why do you have to ruin it for everyone else? It isn’t exactly a chiyuv of LeHafrusha MeIssura.January 10, 2019 6:31 pm at 6:31 pm #1660538yitzykParticipant
Besides – who said anything about smoking? The wine will be tasted, but maybe the cigars will just be rolled? And maybe sniffed?January 10, 2019 6:31 pm at 6:31 pm #1660684JosephParticipant
Is this being done at the local bar?January 10, 2019 6:50 pm at 6:50 pm #1660774YW Moderator-29 👨💻Moderator
Sounds like itJanuary 10, 2019 8:16 pm at 8:16 pm #1660813
Well, the once popular bazaars , sometimes run by the ladies’ auxiliaries is long passe . Nobody wants to be seen buying cans of peas , boxes of Cheerios or bottles of prune juice anymore.January 10, 2019 8:16 pm at 8:16 pm #1660810
But seriously – what exactly is so wrong with this, other than the general issur of smoking that so many people seem to not agree with?
Yeshivos shouldn’t be promoting nivul birshus haTorah. It’s a crying shame that our society has deteriorated to the extent that this yeshiva (and at least one other that I know of) feels it can only successfully raise funds by appealing to the nefesh habehamis, but they need to resist the urge and not give their haskama to the rampant pursuit of extreme gashmius which has pervaded increasingly growing parts of frum society.January 10, 2019 10:01 pm at 10:01 pm #1660856Takes2-2tangoParticipant
Mark my words!
It won’t take long for yeshivas to start raising funds by having rolling legal marajana with the same excuse of (it’s for adults only)January 10, 2019 10:16 pm at 10:16 pm #1660875Chochma DerecheretzParticipant
The yeshivas are now pressing for classes on single malt scotches and how to tile your bathroom expensively. You know, when you pretend you don’t partake of the secular world, you need to sublimate all your worldy desires into the kosher but debased activity of expensive bathroom remodeling.January 10, 2019 10:16 pm at 10:16 pm #1660878
I’m not familiar with this event but I saw a video of an event which could have been called “בשבתנו על סיר הבשר”!
Which took the נבל ברשות התורה to new heights or lows.January 11, 2019 7:28 am at 7:28 am #1660897Dr. NatParticipant
You are a soney Torah velomdeha. It is not the Yeshiva guys rolling the cigars. It is the baalei batim donors.January 11, 2019 10:38 am at 10:38 am #1660997anonymous JewParticipant
A. How are these wine tasters getting home, if they drove to event?
B. As far as setting examples for kids, how much worse than the posters is kids seeing their fathers having too much to drink at shul kiddushes each Shabbos after davening?January 11, 2019 10:45 am at 10:45 am #1661002
A. Their chauffeurs are driving
B. Also bad. That’s not an excuse for this.January 11, 2019 10:53 am at 10:53 am #1661004zahavasdadParticipant
Yeshivos shouldn’t be promoting nivul birshus haTorah. It’s a crying shame that our society has deteriorated to the extent that this yeshiva (and at least one other that I know of) feels it can only successfully raise funds by appealing to the nefesh habehamis, but they need to resist the urge and not give their haskama to the rampant pursuit of extreme gashmius which has pervaded increasingly growing parts of frum society.
There are many yeshivos vying to the same dollar, in order to get your, you need to stick out a bit, especially if you want to attract people who do not know your yeshivaJanuary 11, 2019 11:06 am at 11:06 am #1661008GenyaParticipant
The Yeshivas are going down a very slippery slope with these gimmicks.January 11, 2019 12:23 pm at 12:23 pm #1661017JosephParticipant
I heard the next Yeshiva, to make an even bigger splash and get even more donor attention, will be having their annual dinner in Vegas at a top rated venue.January 11, 2019 1:16 pm at 1:16 pm #1661038zahavasdadParticipant
I heard the next Yeshiva, to make an even bigger splash and get even more donor attention, will be having their annual dinner in Vegas at a top rated venue.
Nothing wrong with that , In fact the las Vegas community is one of the fatest growing in the US
There is even a Kollel there (The Las Vegas Kollel)January 11, 2019 1:54 pm at 1:54 pm #1661082YapchikParticipant
ITS ALL ABOUT THE MONEYJanuary 11, 2019 2:19 pm at 2:19 pm #1661058popa_bar_abbaParticipant
Bouncing off meno, I think we should draw ppl away by hosting a competing event that night.
Cr should have its own cigar and scotch event. With smoked meatJanuary 11, 2019 3:13 pm at 3:13 pm #1661091anonymous JewParticipant
Yapchick, it’s always about the money. The yeshiva in question ( i don’t know any details ) most likely can’t charge its families anywhere near what it costs per child. If you want top quality rebbis and pay them a good living wage, well, that costs money. That’s nothing new.January 11, 2019 3:14 pm at 3:14 pm #1661086
No. Wine is necessary.January 11, 2019 3:16 pm at 3:16 pm #1661102MenoParticipant
What does scotch tasting mean?
Some burn more, some burn less. What else is there to it?January 11, 2019 4:12 pm at 4:12 pm #1661105
Some of them taste like glycerin.January 12, 2019 9:25 pm at 9:25 pm #1661151Chochma DerecheretzParticipant
Dr. Nat, as many others on this thread have stated it’s promoting rank gashmius and it’s nivul brshus HaTorah. You lodged a nasty, personal attack against me. What’s your mkor from the Torah that personal attacks are mutar?January 12, 2019 9:25 pm at 9:25 pm #1661163Takes2-2tangoParticipant
You are a soney Torah velomdeha. It is not the Yeshiva guys rolling the cigars. It is the baalei batim donors.
And in 10/15 years from now those bachurom will also be ballei batim for the most part.
Why don’t you think before you press that submit button.January 12, 2019 9:52 pm at 9:52 pm #1661206
Now that the topic of bathroom tiles has been broached, I would like to pose the following shaila to the esteemed members of this distinguished panel. I noticed a while after I moved in to my current rental apartment that there is a crucifix design on both the wall and floor bathroom tiles. Do I have to replace them or can I rely on the response of the Rosh Yeshiva who when informed that a picture of אותו האיש was hanging on the wall of his hospital room replied “ער הענגט,? זאל ער הענגן”?January 12, 2019 9:54 pm at 9:54 pm #1661217
Update: The event is still on (this Thursday) and despite what the Rosh Hayeshiva assured my friend, the posters, are still hanging in the hallways of local Shuls.
In my opinion, it is one thing to have the event, it’s another level when the posters are right in your face (and the faces of teens and kids) with the main focus on a hand with a cigar.January 12, 2019 10:27 pm at 10:27 pm #1661227
Uncle Ben, is it a deliberate crucifix or one that came about as a side effect in the design?January 12, 2019 10:33 pm at 10:33 pm #1661233GadolhadorahParticipant
One has to question the common-sense of the Rosh Yeshiva and askanim from the Board of this yeshiva if they knowingly approved this fundraising event. Its only for adults? So aduls don’t die from smoking and kids don’t take their guidance from adults?? What do these ehrliche yidden have betwen their ears??January 12, 2019 10:33 pm at 10:33 pm #1661234
Re : FLOOR bathroom tiles
ער ליגט אין דער ערד, לאָז אים ליגןJanuary 12, 2019 11:53 pm at 11:53 pm #1661258
RebYid; It’s hard to tell but it appears in most of the tiles. To make matters more murky, the goofy tile installers set some of the tiles in the opposite direction resulting in the Satan worshippers upside down cross.January 12, 2019 11:54 pm at 11:54 pm #1661259
ZionGate; Thanks, now what about the wall tiles?January 13, 2019 6:46 am at 6:46 am #1661283
The Satan worshiper’s upside down cross is also a lesser-known Christian symbol.January 13, 2019 6:46 am at 6:46 am #1661291
IDK….. maybe because it’s in the bathroom where you don’t daven, it may be ok. You’ll have to ask a sheileh.January 13, 2019 6:47 am at 6:47 am #1661292
I’m not paskening, of course, but maybe this incident could be applied to your bathroom.
שאל פרוקלוס בן פלוספוס את ר”ג בעכו, שהיה רוחץ במרחץ של אפרודיטי, אמר ליה, כתוב בתורתכם: +דברים יג+ לא ידבק בידך מאומה מן החרם, מפני מה אתה רוחץ במרחץ של אפרודיטי? אמר לו: אין משיבין במרחץ. וכשיצא, אמר לו: אני לא באתי בגבולה, היא באה בגבולי, אין אומרים: נעשה מרחץ נוי לאפרודיטי, אלא אומר: נעשה אפרודיטי נוי למרחץ. דבר אחר: אם נותנים לך ממון הרבה, אי אתה נכנס לעבודת כוכבים שלך ערום ובעל קרי ומשתין בפניה, זו עומדת על פי הביב וכל העם משתינין לפניה, לא נאמר אלא אלהיהם, את שנוהג בו משום אלוה – אסור, את שאינו נוהג בו משום אלוהJanuary 13, 2019 11:07 am at 11:07 am #1661429
RebYid; So that leaves me sort of back where I started.January 13, 2019 11:08 am at 11:08 am #1661431
ZionGate; Thanks. Is that a Gemara or a Medrash and where is that found?January 13, 2019 11:28 am at 11:28 am #1661517
It’s Mishneh 4, perek 3… in Mesechte Avodah Zara.January 13, 2019 11:54 am at 11:54 am #16615201Participant
There’s a mitzvah to support yeshivas. No one says you have to drink and smoke.January 13, 2019 12:30 pm at 12:30 pm #1661522
ZG, thanksJanuary 13, 2019 6:14 pm at 6:14 pm #1661698apushatayidParticipant
It’s a sad day for an organization that they have to emoy such a gimmick to raise funds.January 13, 2019 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #1661722shana gilda glickParticipant
how is it muttar to talk about cigar rolling to pure eyes and neshamas?January 13, 2019 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #1661720GadolhadorahParticipant
I guess the point here is whether its “OK” for yiddeshe mosdos to sponsor fundraising activities that would likely be not be considered as activities for a shul’s or yeshiva’s own tzibur but are somehow “OK” for wealthy outsiders. I personally find anything smoking-related very objectionable because of loss of family and close-friends to smoking-related health issues. There seem to be so many other fund-raising opportunities, but some note the “arms race” where there is a need to outdo the last event or the multiple competing events from other mosdos. Some things should be off-limits.January 13, 2019 8:12 pm at 8:12 pm #1661704CTLAWYERParticipant
I think this sounds like an interesting evening.
I haven’t smoked a cigar since 1982 when my doctor determined I was allergic to tobacco juice (i would bite off the end of a hand rolled cigar before lighting it).
I come from a long line of cigar smokers, but it ended with me.
My maternal great great Grandfather was brought to this country from Germany in 1868 to run a handmade cigar factory in NY. If you have never seen cigars being rolled/made by hand it is quite an artisanal skill.
I do think there are other more Jewishly appropriate skills that could be highlighted at a Yeshiva fundraiser. I’d love to watch a good calligrapher/sofer craft Ketubot, or a silversmith craft kiddush cups or candle sticks.
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