Yeshiva Fundrasing using Cigar Rolling and Wine Tasting

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  • #1660219

    no nonsense
    Participant

    Hi.
    I was just wondering how you feel regarding a Mesivta in the Monsey area promoting and having a fundrasing event featuring cigar rolling and wine tasting. Posters have gone up with a large photo of a person with a cigar and in small letters it says benefiting Yeshiva…..These posters are hanging in local shuls.

    I spoke to the administration of the Yeshiva and they told me “there is nothing wrong for a Yeshiva to promote such an event as it is for adults only.” They told me that “smoking is entirely fine and Mutar and if I have a problem with it…well..too bad.” I asked them are they concerned that the posters may send a bad nessage to children and they said “This is an adult event.” I responded saying that it is hanging in shuls. Kids and teenagers go to shul and perhaps the message may be that it is OK to do these things.

    Is it in poor taste? Is it sending a message to kids that this is OK?

    Or is it a situation of live and let live?

    Thank you.

    #1660509

    Meno
    Participant

    I say we should all go and protest this terrible fundraiser.

    When and where is it, (just so we know when to show up to protest)?

    Also how does one RSVP (so we can tell them that we plan on showing up to protest)?

    #1660514

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Smoking is bad, but wine is good.

    #1660512

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Yeah, and which kinds of cigars and wine are they having?

    #1660520

    apushatayid
    Participant

    Does the “rabbinical board” of this Mesivta approve of the event?

    #1660525

    no nonsense
    Participant

    I have no idea concerning what type of cigars…wines…etc. And yes, the Rabbinical does approve of it. Although, a friend of mine, got through to the Rosh Hayeshiva who agreed that the signs were inappropriate.

    #1660526

    They cant inhale and drink at the same time.

    #1660536

    yitzyk
    Participant

    How can they approve it or not if they haven’t tasted them yet? Once they taste them, the Cigars and Wine will bear a label Approved by Yeshiva Board!

    But seriously – what exactly is so wrong with this, other than the general issur of smoking that so many people seem to not agree with? If a Yeshiva really wants big donations, they need to attract wealthy donors. A cotton-candy tasting event is not going to cut it. The “bessere menshin” think that they appreciate good wine and good cigars, and therefore this could have been a great idea.

    Until some nudniks protested and brought them bad hype instead. This is an old story – Just because you don’t like an idea and wouldn’t show up yourself, why do you have to ruin it for everyone else? It isn’t exactly a chiyuv of LeHafrusha MeIssura.

    #1660538

    yitzyk
    Participant

    Besides – who said anything about smoking? The wine will be tasted, but maybe the cigars will just be rolled? And maybe sniffed?

    #1660684

    Joseph
    Participant

    Is this being done at the local bar?

    #1660774

    Sounds like it

    #1660813

    ZionGate
    Participant

    Well, the once popular bazaars , sometimes run by the ladies’ auxiliaries is long passe . Nobody wants to be seen buying cans of peas , boxes of Cheerios or bottles of prune juice anymore.

    #1660810

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    But seriously – what exactly is so wrong with this, other than the general issur of smoking that so many people seem to not agree with?

    Yeshivos shouldn’t be promoting nivul birshus haTorah. It’s a crying shame that our society has deteriorated to the extent that this yeshiva (and at least one other that I know of) feels it can only successfully raise funds by appealing to the nefesh habehamis, but they need to resist the urge and not give their haskama to the rampant pursuit of extreme gashmius which has pervaded increasingly growing parts of frum society.

    #1660856

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    Mark my words!
    It won’t take long for yeshivas to start raising funds by having rolling legal marajana with the same excuse of (it’s for adults only)

    #1660875

    Chochma Derecheretz
    Participant

    The yeshivas are now pressing for classes on single malt scotches and how to tile your bathroom expensively. You know, when you pretend you don’t partake of the secular world, you need to sublimate all your worldy desires into the kosher but debased activity of expensive bathroom remodeling.

    #1660878

    Uncle Ben
    Participant

    I’m not familiar with this event but I saw a video of an event which could have been called “בשבתנו על סיר הבשר”!
    Which took the נבל ברשות התורה to new heights or lows.

    #1660897

    Dr. Nat
    Participant

    Chochma derecheretz:

    You are a soney Torah velomdeha. It is not the Yeshiva guys rolling the cigars. It is the baalei batim donors.

    #1660997

    anonymous Jew
    Participant

    A. How are these wine tasters getting home, if they drove to event?
    B. As far as setting examples for kids, how much worse than the posters is kids seeing their fathers having too much to drink at shul kiddushes each Shabbos after davening?

    #1661002

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    A. Their chauffeurs are driving

    B. Also bad. That’s not an excuse for this.

    #1661004

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Yeshivos shouldn’t be promoting nivul birshus haTorah. It’s a crying shame that our society has deteriorated to the extent that this yeshiva (and at least one other that I know of) feels it can only successfully raise funds by appealing to the nefesh habehamis, but they need to resist the urge and not give their haskama to the rampant pursuit of extreme gashmius which has pervaded increasingly growing parts of frum society.

    There are many yeshivos vying to the same dollar, in order to get your, you need to stick out a bit, especially if you want to attract people who do not know your yeshiva

    #1661008

    Genya
    Participant

    The Yeshivas are going down a very slippery slope with these gimmicks.

    #1661017

    Joseph
    Participant

    I heard the next Yeshiva, to make an even bigger splash and get even more donor attention, will be having their annual dinner in Vegas at a top rated venue.

    #1661038

    zahavasdad
    Participant


    I heard the next Yeshiva, to make an even bigger splash and get even more donor attention, will be having their annual dinner in Vegas at a top rated venue.

    Nothing wrong with that , In fact the las Vegas community is one of the fatest growing in the US

    There is even a Kollel there (The Las Vegas Kollel)

    #1661082

    Yapchik
    Participant

    ITS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY

    #1661058

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Bouncing off meno, I think we should draw ppl away by hosting a competing event that night.

    Cr should have its own cigar and scotch event. With smoked meat

    #1661091

    anonymous Jew
    Participant

    Yapchick, it’s always about the money. The yeshiva in question ( i don’t know any details ) most likely can’t charge its families anywhere near what it costs per child. If you want top quality rebbis and pay them a good living wage, well, that costs money. That’s nothing new.

    #1661086

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    No. Wine is necessary.

    #1661102

    Meno
    Participant

    What does scotch tasting mean?

    Some burn more, some burn less. What else is there to it?

    #1661105

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Some of them taste like glycerin.

    #1661151

    Chochma Derecheretz
    Participant

    Dr. Nat, as many others on this thread have stated it’s promoting rank gashmius and it’s nivul brshus HaTorah. You lodged a nasty, personal attack against me. What’s your mkor from the Torah that personal attacks are mutar?

    #1661163

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    Dr. NatParticipant

    Chochma derecheretz:

    You are a soney Torah velomdeha. It is not the Yeshiva guys rolling the cigars. It is the baalei batim donors.
    ————————————–
    And in 10/15 years from now those bachurom will also be ballei batim for the most part.
    Why don’t you think before you press that submit button.

    #1661206

    Uncle Ben
    Participant

    Now that the topic of bathroom tiles has been broached, I would like to pose the following shaila to the esteemed members of this distinguished panel. I noticed a while after I moved in to my current rental apartment that there is a crucifix design on both the wall and floor bathroom tiles. Do I have to replace them or can I rely on the response of the Rosh Yeshiva who when informed that a picture of אותו האיש was hanging on the wall of his hospital room replied “ער הענגט,? זאל ער הענגן”?

    #1661217

    no nonsense
    Participant

    Gut Voch,
    Update: The event is still on (this Thursday) and despite what the Rosh Hayeshiva assured my friend, the posters, are still hanging in the hallways of local Shuls.

    In my opinion, it is one thing to have the event, it’s another level when the posters are right in your face (and the faces of teens and kids) with the main focus on a hand with a cigar.

    #1661227

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Uncle Ben, is it a deliberate crucifix or one that came about as a side effect in the design?

    #1661233

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    One has to question the common-sense of the Rosh Yeshiva and askanim from the Board of this yeshiva if they knowingly approved this fundraising event. Its only for adults? So aduls don’t die from smoking and kids don’t take their guidance from adults?? What do these ehrliche yidden have betwen their ears??

    #1661234

    ZionGate
    Participant

    Re : FLOOR bathroom tiles

    ער ליגט אין דער ערד, לאָז אים ליגן

    #1661258

    Uncle Ben
    Participant

    RebYid; It’s hard to tell but it appears in most of the tiles. To make matters more murky, the goofy tile installers set some of the tiles in the opposite direction resulting in the Satan worshippers upside down cross.

    #1661259

    Uncle Ben
    Participant

    ZionGate; Thanks, now what about the wall tiles?

    #1661283

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    The Satan worshiper’s upside down cross is also a lesser-known Christian symbol.

    #1661291

    ZionGate
    Participant

    IDK….. maybe because it’s in the bathroom where you don’t daven, it may be ok. You’ll have to ask a sheileh.

    #1661292

    ZionGate
    Participant

    Uncle Ben,
    I’m not paskening, of course, but maybe this incident could be applied to your bathroom.

    שאל פרוקלוס בן פלוספוס את ר”ג בעכו, שהיה רוחץ במרחץ של אפרודיטי, אמר ליה, כתוב בתורתכם: +דברים יג+ לא ידבק בידך מאומה מן החרם, מפני מה אתה רוחץ במרחץ של אפרודיטי? אמר לו: אין משיבין במרחץ. וכשיצא, אמר לו: אני לא באתי בגבולה, היא באה בגבולי, אין אומרים: נעשה מרחץ נוי לאפרודיטי, אלא אומר: נעשה אפרודיטי נוי למרחץ. דבר אחר: אם נותנים לך ממון הרבה, אי אתה נכנס לעבודת כוכבים שלך ערום ובעל קרי ומשתין בפניה, זו עומדת על פי הביב וכל העם משתינין לפניה, לא נאמר אלא אלהיהם, את שנוהג בו משום אלוה – אסור, את שאינו נוהג בו משום אלוה

    #1661429

    Uncle Ben
    Participant

    RebYid; So that leaves me sort of back where I started.

    #1661431

    Uncle Ben
    Participant

    ZionGate; Thanks. Is that a Gemara or a Medrash and where is that found?

    #1661517

    ZionGate
    Participant

    UB,
    It’s Mishneh 4, perek 3… in Mesechte Avodah Zara.

    #1661520

    1
    Participant

    There’s a mitzvah to support yeshivas. No one says you have to drink and smoke.

    #1661522

    Uncle Ben
    Participant

    ZG, thanks

    #1661698

    apushatayid
    Participant

    It’s a sad day for an organization that they have to emoy such a gimmick to raise funds.

    #1661722

    shana gilda glick
    Participant

    how is it muttar to talk about cigar rolling to pure eyes and neshamas?

    #1661720

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    I guess the point here is whether its “OK” for yiddeshe mosdos to sponsor fundraising activities that would likely be not be considered as activities for a shul’s or yeshiva’s own tzibur but are somehow “OK” for wealthy outsiders. I personally find anything smoking-related very objectionable because of loss of family and close-friends to smoking-related health issues. There seem to be so many other fund-raising opportunities, but some note the “arms race” where there is a need to outdo the last event or the multiple competing events from other mosdos. Some things should be off-limits.

    #1661704

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    I think this sounds like an interesting evening.
    I haven’t smoked a cigar since 1982 when my doctor determined I was allergic to tobacco juice (i would bite off the end of a hand rolled cigar before lighting it).
    I come from a long line of cigar smokers, but it ended with me.
    My maternal great great Grandfather was brought to this country from Germany in 1868 to run a handmade cigar factory in NY. If you have never seen cigars being rolled/made by hand it is quite an artisanal skill.

    I do think there are other more Jewishly appropriate skills that could be highlighted at a Yeshiva fundraiser. I’d love to watch a good calligrapher/sofer craft Ketubot, or a silversmith craft kiddush cups or candle sticks.

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