March 3, 2013 8:49 pm at 8:49 pm #608419Daniel RosenMember
Do you think it’s better to stay in yeshiva without a clear career path or go to college and put off learning until you have a steady career. What if it’s a choice between making 50,000 a year where you can learn half of the day vs making 150,000 where you can only learn couple hours a day (if that) but will be able to live comfortably?March 4, 2013 1:29 am at 1:29 am #934425kfbParticipant
I’m not sure if you’re talking about that salary the first year you are married or already have a few children. $50000 a year is nothing when you have children, tuition, a house… Even $150000 won’t cover these costs but at least you could attempt to live off of it. Go to college, get a degree, get a job and raise a family. You can also learn Torah while doIng all of those things as well.March 4, 2013 1:34 am at 1:34 am #934426EnderParticipant
I think Chazal are pretty clear on this one. Al tomar Licheshefne eshne, shemo lo teepone (sorry about the spelling).March 4, 2013 1:43 am at 1:43 am #934427zahavasdadParticipant
You will not get $50,000 a year part time, very few part time jobs pay that, Expect more like $10,000 or less for a part time jobMarch 4, 2013 2:03 am at 2:03 am #934428March 4, 2013 2:11 am at 2:11 am #934429ubiquitinParticipant
College.March 4, 2013 2:47 am at 2:47 am #934430akupermaParticipant
A salary of $150K means high success. It means you are in the top 10% of all Americans.
If you want to work in the frum community, economic opportunties are lower (but you avoid the hassles of working for the goyim).
If you don’t have a career you aspire to, and only aspire to have a high salary, you should stay in yeshiva until you are mature enough to go to the outside world.March 4, 2013 2:56 am at 2:56 am #934431Torah613TorahParticipant
DR: Very few people have that choice. If you value Torah, you will value it no matter what you do.
I think it is best to do something that suits your talents and with which you can contribute to the world. Hashem gives the parnasa.March 4, 2013 4:32 am at 4:32 am #934432MachshavosMember
For those who are not aware, MANY would argue with the view in DaasYochid’s source.March 4, 2013 4:38 am at 4:38 am #934433yehudayonaParticipant
kfb, I’d be very surprised if more than 10% of people in the frum community earn more than $150K a year. Yet somehow they manage the expenses of a house, children, and tuition.March 4, 2013 3:55 pm at 3:55 pm #934434Daniel RosenMember
Thank you for all of your replies I read all of them and they are all very much appreciated. Torah613Torah: “If you value Torah, you will value it no matter what you do…Hashem gives the parnasa.”
So are you saying that I should or I should not go to grad school?
My father own a small shoe store. He says I can work there with him making 40-50k a year (and perhaps more in the future if I somehow manage to expand the store) and I can learn Torah until the afternoon OR I can take out loans to go to law school or another graduate program (I have a bachelors in psych) and make a lot more money.
What do you think I should do? I really need advice.March 4, 2013 4:32 pm at 4:32 pm #934435Sam2Participant
DY: Lulei D’mistifina, I would say that it was a lot easier to make a viable Parnassah back then without college. Nowadays, not nearly as much. In Eretz Yisrael it’s still possible, but not most places in America. Certainly not in New York.March 4, 2013 4:38 pm at 4:38 pm #934436
Machshavos, don’t just make assertions, show us what you’ve got.
Sam2, I have no reason to think so.March 4, 2013 4:44 pm at 4:44 pm #934437gavra_at_workParticipant
Agree with Ender.March 4, 2013 4:47 pm at 4:47 pm #934438akupermaParticipant
Daniel Rosen: If you want to run a business, you have your answer. Unless you want to work for a big corporation, for which an MBA might help, you don’t to spend money on graduate school, or even college. There are no academic requirements to run a business. All you need is something to sell and customers.
If you prefer some other line of work, pick the line of work based on what you want to do. Ask yourself about hours of work, risk, whether you could move to Israel if that ever becomes a facot, what are working conditions like, does it interest you. If you are already married with your own household, law school will cost about $250K (remember to include living costs) – that might be tolerable if you really want to be a lawyer, but think of what sort of return you could get if you borrowed that much money to invest in the business – and what you’ll do if you can’t pay back the loans.March 4, 2013 4:50 pm at 4:50 pm #934439charliehallParticipant
I’m about as “modern” as any modern orthodox Jew anywhere, and I am a university Professor, but I personally think that many students would be better off waiting until they are more mature before attending university. Many 17-19 year old students are frankly wasting their parents’ money.
Worth noting prior to the establishment of religious universities such as YU, Touro, and Bar-Ilan, many gedolim attended university after years of yeshiva study, not before.March 4, 2013 5:01 pm at 5:01 pm #934440just my hapenceParticipant
DY – R’ Elchonon in Kovetz Maamarim, I think the maamar is called Teshuva L’bachur Harotze Laleches L’gymnasia or something along those lines.March 4, 2013 5:02 pm at 5:02 pm #934441rebdonielMember
I wish I had a family business to go into.
I’d suggest working with your father and using that money to attend a CUNY school. As far as learning, you do that yomam v’ leila by joining a regular shiur, listening to shiurim, maintaining a chavrusa, and developing a plan for bekius/covering ground.March 4, 2013 6:56 pm at 6:56 pm #934442
JMH, it sounds like R’ Moshe and R’ Elchonon were talking to two different types of bochurim. I’l try to look at the Kovetz ma’amarim later.March 4, 2013 7:23 pm at 7:23 pm #934443benignumanParticipant
It depends on all sorts of personal factors like age, ability to self-motivate, marital status. In general I would say it is better to delay college until one is sufficiently proficient in learning to be able to learn Shas and Poskim on one’s own.March 4, 2013 7:44 pm at 7:44 pm #934444zahavasdadParticipant
One never knows the future of course, and you can never know how the shoe store will due in the future, Styles change rents increase (Alot of famous stores have gone out of business because of this) , neightborhoods change.
I cant tell you if a college degree is going to make you more money or not and of course Hashem provides. But if you and another person are applying for a job as a lawyer and the other person has a law degree and you dont, I can reasonably assume he will get the job and you wont.March 4, 2013 7:50 pm at 7:50 pm #934445shnitzyMember
Agree with benignuman. Then, you can truly use those few hours that you’ll have to the fullest. And in learning, you will gain the maturity necessary to achieve in college.March 5, 2013 12:38 am at 12:38 am #934446MachshavosMember
“Machshavos, don’t just make assertions, show us what you’ve got.”
R. Ahron Soloveichik, I believe, is one name of someone who would differ. (You can look at his Logic of the Heart, Logic of the Mind.)March 5, 2013 12:59 am at 12:59 am #934447besalelParticipant
i absolutely loved this gem from akuperma: “If you don’t have a career you aspire to, and only aspire to have a high salary, you should stay in yeshiva until you are mature enough to go to the outside world.” so true.March 6, 2013 5:48 am at 5:48 am #934448Torah613TorahParticipant
DR: You can’t expect us to answer that, we hardly know you. Post a bit more and we’ll be more opinionated about it.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.