May 24, 2011 3:10 am at 3:10 am #597052
Hi folks! I just dated a guy and we went to a classic 2nd date typical hotel lounge. I ordered water as usual, he ordered….beer. Okay,so I understand if we’d have been in a restaurant and hed order alcohol.or in a bowling alley and hed order beer from the bar.but on a beginning date-in circles where things are still formal,do you folks out there feel what he did was appropriate?May 24, 2011 3:16 am at 3:16 am #770483
Was he driving home afterwards?May 24, 2011 3:20 am at 3:20 am #770484
Yes.I said in the nicest way possible and in jest too so he won’t feel like I’m attacking-“can I ask u how u plan on drivng me home w all that alcohol in your system?” He said that after 1 hour of drinking one bottle of beer-he confirmed with a cop or something that even if hed get a breath test on way home hed be okay. I understand that concept.I was just weirded out at the chilled/looseness of ordering alcohol on a formal date.May 24, 2011 3:23 am at 3:23 am #770485
Yet you’d have no problem with him getting beer in a bar at the bowling alley??May 24, 2011 3:27 am at 3:27 am #770487
I would recommend that you ask a serious shaila about continuing. Although he probably did not realize that it’s assur (S.A. Y.D. 114-1), it seems a pretty crass thing to do on a date.May 24, 2011 3:28 am at 3:28 am #770488
Ifff I was up to the point of going bowling w a guy-its reasonable to order a beer.its the setting.and level of relationship.regardless-i said no to him for other reasons,but the beer is a great discussion and I’m running it by anyone whod listen!!May 24, 2011 3:30 am at 3:30 am #770489
A Frum person should never be in a bar.May 24, 2011 3:31 am at 3:31 am #770490popa_bar_abbaParticipant
Depends who you are and who he is.
If you’d be ok with bowling, and ok with beer at bowling, you should be ok with this.May 24, 2011 3:33 am at 3:33 am #770491
Anonymiss:Nopes-was never in long beach in my life!
And daasyochid: crass is the perfecttt word to use.I was using crude,tacky,inappropriate.crass.great one.May 24, 2011 3:33 am at 3:33 am #770493
If you’d be ok with bowling, and ok with beer at bowling,
and ok with violating halacha?May 24, 2011 3:36 am at 3:36 am #770494
A Frum person should never be in a bar.
I guess I’m not frum since I was playing backgammon the other day and was sent to the bar.
Just another sign that I’m going to hell in the afterlife.
The WolfMay 24, 2011 3:37 am at 3:37 am #770495
What’s backgammon have to do with going to a bar?May 24, 2011 3:37 am at 3:37 am #770496
I guess I’m not frum since I was playing backgammon the other day and was sent to the bar.
It’s a good thing you’re not a lawyer.May 24, 2011 3:40 am at 3:40 am #770497
What’s backgammon have to do with going to a bar?
I guess you’ve never played backgammon.
It’s a good thing you’re not a lawyer.
What difference does it make? Can I be sent to Hell for eternity twice?
The WolfMay 24, 2011 3:40 am at 3:40 am #770498
Mr pac man: The place u buy drinks in any hotel lounge is called a bar.unless when youu went dating you picked up soda in shoprite first. 🙂 🙂 or maybe ur mother packed u up with box drinks.its appropriate to buy drinks in the “bar” whether its in a lounge or bowlimg alley etc. Just normally in my circles we get water or soda.May 24, 2011 3:43 am at 3:43 am #770500
It IS less expensive to get soda from Shop Rite.
Isn’t there a soda machine in the area?May 24, 2011 3:47 am at 3:47 am #770501
How can you drink from the hotel cup they pour the drink into? The cup may have been used for non-kosher.May 24, 2011 3:50 am at 3:50 am #770502
Pac man-u musttt be either my grandmothers age or or I don’t know what! Even my father who’s a serious cheapskate(son of holocaust survivor) bought his wife drinks on dates-nott from shoprite!May 24, 2011 3:52 am at 3:52 am #770503always hereParticipant
girl22~ I’m veryy chill & I think it’s inappropriate… even if he said the alcohol would be outta his system before he had to drive you home.May 24, 2011 3:58 am at 3:58 am #770504
What difference does it make?
TemperatureMay 24, 2011 3:58 am at 3:58 am #770505
Anonymiss-i didd answer u!read above posts noo I was never in allegria/longbeach etcMay 24, 2011 3:58 am at 3:58 am #770506
How can you drink from the hotel cup they pour the drink into? The cup may have been used for non-kosher.
It’s cold, but as I posted earlier, it’s nevertheless assur.May 24, 2011 4:00 am at 4:00 am #770507AnonyMissParticipant
Girl22 I take it that you are ignoring me because you were there and think I saw you/know you. That is not the case- I am only assuming you were there because I know that they have a policy that if you do not order an alcoholic drink then they charge you $20 per person minimum just for sodas. When my brother went on a date there a few months ago the waiter told him this policy and he said- ok I’ll take two cokes and beer! If you were at Allegria then perhaps that is the reason why he bought a beer and if you were somewhere else then perhaps they have the same policy so he decided to evade the wasted $40 and buy a beer….May 24, 2011 4:01 am at 4:01 am #770508AnonyMissParticipant
ooooo I’m SOORRRY- i missed your earlier post! LOL!May 24, 2011 4:03 am at 4:03 am #770509
It’s assur to drink any drink from the hotel’s cups? I thought your citation of S”A was regarding beer specifically. Is the reason it is assur because of the non-kosher nature of the utensil it is poured into?
And how then is it so common for frum people on dates to be ordering drinks from hotels?May 24, 2011 4:05 am at 4:05 am #770510jeweledMember
What’s wrong with ordering beer on a date? It’s not like he became plastered. Also, OP, if your chilled enough to discuss your date in a co-ed online forum, you should be chilled enough to order beer on a date (let alone the guy).May 24, 2011 4:07 am at 4:07 am #770511decisive viewpointMember
It prob tells you something about the guy; namely that he is rather chilled. it is a statement to drink alcohol on the 2nd date. question is where you are at? are you comfortable with that kind of guy?May 24, 2011 4:10 am at 4:10 am #770512
Daas yachid: glass is not bolaya.May 24, 2011 4:14 am at 4:14 am #770513HomeownerMember
Bowling under the influence can be dangerous.May 24, 2011 4:43 am at 4:43 am #770514KeenObserverMember
Without addressing the other issues here, I’d like to point out that there is nothing wrong with driving after having a single beer, especially if he was not planning on driving for an hour or so. His blood alcohol level would never have been near the legal limit, and after an hour or so should be close to zero.May 24, 2011 4:45 am at 4:45 am #770515showerzingerMember
Daas Yochid – what are you talking about????
As for the concern with being able to drive he is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!An average person processes one “drink” (a shot of scotch,glass of wine,one beer)in an hour. In fact he’s need multiple drinks to be over the legal limit of .08May 24, 2011 4:47 am at 4:47 am #770516HealthParticipant
He should have made the date his designated driver. Better safe than Sorry!May 24, 2011 4:52 am at 4:52 am #770517TheGoqParticipant
Wolf do u like to use the doubling cube?May 24, 2011 5:00 am at 5:00 am #770518oomisParticipant
EEEWWWWW! Besides potentially being dangerous, if he is driving, it is SO unclassy to do that, especially on a first date. Though I am not much of a drinker, I am not a teetotaler, either. But I would never drink even ONE drink, if I would be driving, and certainly not on a date. Especially not on a first date.May 24, 2011 5:02 am at 5:02 am #770519oomisParticipant
Keenobserver, your scientific acumen notwithstanding (NOT being sarcastic, as you made a good point), how a person metabolizes one beer, depends on many factors, including height and weight, what he had to eat and drink besides the beer, etc. On an empty stomach, it can go right to his head.May 24, 2011 5:11 am at 5:11 am #770520
Wolf do u like to use the doubling cube?
The WolfMay 24, 2011 5:12 am at 5:12 am #770521
The S.A. I quoted earlier says that it’s assur to drink an alcoholic beverage at the place of purchase (when purchased from a non-Jew).
The issue which was brought up about the cup is not a problem (regardless of whether it was glass) because the beer is cold. Nevertheless, it is still assur because of the first issue.May 24, 2011 5:53 am at 5:53 am #770522
Jeweled- 🙂 now I feel like a bad girlie.posting anonymously on YW makes me chilled enough to pound beer on dates w yeshiva guys?! Oh well.I should add that to my shidduch resume.”Is chilled enough to date a guy who drinks beer on 2nd dates” hmmm ud think it was planned. If hypothetically he threw a snow ball at me on a date in the snow would u accuse me of being “the type” to have snow ball fights w yeshiva guys on dates? I kinda wasn’t the one who told him to order beer 🙂May 24, 2011 10:33 am at 10:33 am #770523mikehall12382Member
I know the problem, the girl is upset it wasn’t scotch !!May 24, 2011 11:09 am at 11:09 am #770524canineMember
DY: IOW, the halacha (that you cited from S”A) prohibits ever drinking alcohol in a (non-Jewish) bar.May 24, 2011 12:00 pm at 12:00 pm #770525
glass is not bolaya.
That’s a machlokes.May 24, 2011 12:44 pm at 12:44 pm #770527jeweledMember
🙂 girl22,I am not accusing you of pounding beers, drinking maybe, pounding sounds a little heavy though. Snowball fights on a first date would definitely depend on your personality and chemistry with the guy. Having rules on a date is bizarre. Of course, there needs to be proper decorum, but I don’t see anything wrong with having a drink on a date. Would it make a difference if your second date was at a shabbos table and he had a lchaim? Also, I am clearly out of town, so if there are rules where you are from, diregard this. Hatzlacha with dating!May 24, 2011 2:12 pm at 2:12 pm #770528ravshalomParticipant
Daas Yochid: Did you bother to even read the SA you quoted? Not to mention the Rama…
For all those concerned, the SA specifically says that the issue is only if someone is ???? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ??????. This clearly refers to a situation such as a pub or a bar, not a date in a hotel lounge. Further, the Rama cites numerous Rishonim and Acharonim that beer made from grain (such as most beer on the market today) would be permitted, and that such is the minhag in ?????? ??? i.e. Ashkenazi communities.May 24, 2011 2:31 pm at 2:31 pm #770529
rshalom: What is the minhag of Ashkenazi communities? Certainly not to drink in a bar C”V. The S”A cited by DY clearly prohibits that.May 24, 2011 2:33 pm at 2:33 pm #770531apushatayidParticipant
Doesnt the Rma say that “shechar shel tvuah” the minhag is to be meikel?
Either way, bar, in the context of a hotel lounge means the place from where the drinks are purchased/served, one orders a glass of water or a diet coke at this bar as well.
Its ironic, the reason for the gezeirah is “chasunos” and this is where everyone goes for dates.May 24, 2011 2:35 pm at 2:35 pm #770532zahavasdadParticipant
Would you have felt any different if he had ordered Wine (Assuming they had Kosher wine) or a cocktail (Pina Colada , Stawberry Dacquri etc)May 24, 2011 2:47 pm at 2:47 pm #770533
A lounge has the same status as a bar.
The ??”? and ??”? are ?????, and the ?”? writes ?????? ?????. The ???? ??? writes ???? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ???.May 24, 2011 3:08 pm at 3:08 pm #770534SacrilegeMember
Just to break it down. I’m going to assume that since you went to a lounge on a second date you probably associate yourself in the more “Yeshivish” circles.
Good decision, your better off without the bum.
Besides he doesnt take your safety seriously. Hotel lounges dont usually give the standard 12 oz bottle, they have beer on tap and give you a large cup. Good chance he was driving inebriated.May 24, 2011 3:15 pm at 3:15 pm #770535
DY: So the issur is only to drink alcohol where it is served (i.e. a bar), and not a non-alcoholic beverage (i.e. a hotel lounge)?May 24, 2011 3:26 pm at 3:26 pm #770536mikehall12382Member
“Good decision, your better off without the bum”
In terms of her safety, the average male can drink more than 1 beer and still be OK to drive.
I know of plenty of Frum people that are pillars of their community that enjoy a nice cool one once in a while.
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