Yeshivah guy ordering beer on a date

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  • #597052

    girl22
    Member

    Hi folks! I just dated a guy and we went to a classic 2nd date typical hotel lounge. I ordered water as usual, he ordered….beer. Okay,so I understand if we’d have been in a restaurant and hed order alcohol.or in a bowling alley and hed order beer from the bar.but on a beginning date-in circles where things are still formal,do you folks out there feel what he did was appropriate?

    #770483

    Pac-Man
    Member

    Was he driving home afterwards?

    #770484

    girl22
    Member

    Yes.I said in the nicest way possible and in jest too so he won’t feel like I’m attacking-“can I ask u how u plan on drivng me home w all that alcohol in your system?” He said that after 1 hour of drinking one bottle of beer-he confirmed with a cop or something that even if hed get a breath test on way home hed be okay. I understand that concept.I was just weirded out at the chilled/looseness of ordering alcohol on a formal date.

    #770485

    Pac-Man
    Member

    Yet you’d have no problem with him getting beer in a bar at the bowling alley??

    #770487

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I would recommend that you ask a serious shaila about continuing. Although he probably did not realize that it’s assur (S.A. Y.D. 114-1), it seems a pretty crass thing to do on a date.

    #770488

    girl22
    Member

    Ifff I was up to the point of going bowling w a guy-its reasonable to order a beer.its the setting.and level of relationship.regardless-i said no to him for other reasons,but the beer is a great discussion and I’m running it by anyone whod listen!!

    #770489

    Pac-Man
    Member

    A Frum person should never be in a bar.

    #770490

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Depends who you are and who he is.

    If you’d be ok with bowling, and ok with beer at bowling, you should be ok with this.

    #770491

    girl22
    Member

    Anonymiss:Nopes-was never in long beach in my life!

    And daasyochid: crass is the perfecttt word to use.I was using crude,tacky,inappropriate.crass.great one.

    #770493

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    If you’d be ok with bowling, and ok with beer at bowling,

    and ok with violating halacha?

    #770494

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    A Frum person should never be in a bar.

    I guess I’m not frum since I was playing backgammon the other day and was sent to the bar.

    Just another sign that I’m going to hell in the afterlife.

    The Wolf

    #770495

    Pac-Man
    Member

    What’s backgammon have to do with going to a bar?

    #770496

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I guess I’m not frum since I was playing backgammon the other day and was sent to the bar.

    It’s a good thing you’re not a lawyer.

    #770497

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    What’s backgammon have to do with going to a bar?

    I guess you’ve never played backgammon.

    It’s a good thing you’re not a lawyer.

    What difference does it make? Can I be sent to Hell for eternity twice?

    The Wolf

    #770498

    girl22
    Member

    Mr pac man: The place u buy drinks in any hotel lounge is called a bar.unless when youu went dating you picked up soda in shoprite first. 🙂 🙂 or maybe ur mother packed u up with box drinks.its appropriate to buy drinks in the “bar” whether its in a lounge or bowlimg alley etc. Just normally in my circles we get water or soda.

    #770500

    Pac-Man
    Member

    It IS less expensive to get soda from Shop Rite.

    Isn’t there a soda machine in the area?

    #770501

    shlishi
    Member

    How can you drink from the hotel cup they pour the drink into? The cup may have been used for non-kosher.

    #770502

    girl22
    Member

    Pac man-u musttt be either my grandmothers age or or I don’t know what! Even my father who’s a serious cheapskate(son of holocaust survivor) bought his wife drinks on dates-nott from shoprite!

    #770503

    always here
    Participant

    girl22~ I’m veryy chill & I think it’s inappropriate… even if he said the alcohol would be outta his system before he had to drive you home.

    #770504

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    What difference does it make?

    Temperature

    #770505

    girl22
    Member

    Anonymiss-i didd answer u!read above posts noo I was never in allegria/longbeach etc

    #770506

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    How can you drink from the hotel cup they pour the drink into? The cup may have been used for non-kosher.

    It’s cold, but as I posted earlier, it’s nevertheless assur.

    #770507

    AnonyMiss
    Participant

    Girl22 I take it that you are ignoring me because you were there and think I saw you/know you. That is not the case- I am only assuming you were there because I know that they have a policy that if you do not order an alcoholic drink then they charge you $20 per person minimum just for sodas. When my brother went on a date there a few months ago the waiter told him this policy and he said- ok I’ll take two cokes and beer! If you were at Allegria then perhaps that is the reason why he bought a beer and if you were somewhere else then perhaps they have the same policy so he decided to evade the wasted $40 and buy a beer….

    #770508

    AnonyMiss
    Participant

    ooooo I’m SOORRRY- i missed your earlier post! LOL!

    #770509

    shlishi
    Member

    Daas Yochid:

    It’s assur to drink any drink from the hotel’s cups? I thought your citation of S”A was regarding beer specifically. Is the reason it is assur because of the non-kosher nature of the utensil it is poured into?

    And how then is it so common for frum people on dates to be ordering drinks from hotels?

    #770510

    jeweled
    Member

    What’s wrong with ordering beer on a date? It’s not like he became plastered. Also, OP, if your chilled enough to discuss your date in a co-ed online forum, you should be chilled enough to order beer on a date (let alone the guy).

    #770511

    It prob tells you something about the guy; namely that he is rather chilled. it is a statement to drink alcohol on the 2nd date. question is where you are at? are you comfortable with that kind of guy?

    #770512

    girl22
    Member

    Daas yachid: glass is not bolaya.

    #770513

    Homeowner
    Member

    Bowling under the influence can be dangerous.

    #770514

    KeenObserver
    Member

    Without addressing the other issues here, I’d like to point out that there is nothing wrong with driving after having a single beer, especially if he was not planning on driving for an hour or so. His blood alcohol level would never have been near the legal limit, and after an hour or so should be close to zero.

    #770515

    showerzinger
    Member

    Daas Yochid – what are you talking about????

    As for the concern with being able to drive he is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!An average person processes one “drink” (a shot of scotch,glass of wine,one beer)in an hour. In fact he’s need multiple drinks to be over the legal limit of .08

    #770516

    Health
    Participant

    He should have made the date his designated driver. Better safe than Sorry!

    #770517

    TheGoq
    Participant

    Wolf do u like to use the doubling cube?

    #770518

    oomis
    Participant

    EEEWWWWW! Besides potentially being dangerous, if he is driving, it is SO unclassy to do that, especially on a first date. Though I am not much of a drinker, I am not a teetotaler, either. But I would never drink even ONE drink, if I would be driving, and certainly not on a date. Especially not on a first date.

    #770519

    oomis
    Participant

    Keenobserver, your scientific acumen notwithstanding (NOT being sarcastic, as you made a good point), how a person metabolizes one beer, depends on many factors, including height and weight, what he had to eat and drink besides the beer, etc. On an empty stomach, it can go right to his head.

    #770520

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Wolf do u like to use the doubling cube?

    Yes.

    The Wolf

    #770521

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    To clarify:

    The S.A. I quoted earlier says that it’s assur to drink an alcoholic beverage at the place of purchase (when purchased from a non-Jew).

    The issue which was brought up about the cup is not a problem (regardless of whether it was glass) because the beer is cold. Nevertheless, it is still assur because of the first issue.

    #770522

    girl22
    Member

    Jeweled- 🙂 now I feel like a bad girlie.posting anonymously on YW makes me chilled enough to pound beer on dates w yeshiva guys?! Oh well.I should add that to my shidduch resume.”Is chilled enough to date a guy who drinks beer on 2nd dates” hmmm ud think it was planned. If hypothetically he threw a snow ball at me on a date in the snow would u accuse me of being “the type” to have snow ball fights w yeshiva guys on dates? I kinda wasn’t the one who told him to order beer 🙂

    #770523

    I know the problem, the girl is upset it wasn’t scotch !!

    #770524

    canine
    Member

    DY: IOW, the halacha (that you cited from S”A) prohibits ever drinking alcohol in a (non-Jewish) bar.

    #770525

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    glass is not bolaya.

    That’s a machlokes.

    #770527

    jeweled
    Member

    🙂 girl22,I am not accusing you of pounding beers, drinking maybe, pounding sounds a little heavy though. Snowball fights on a first date would definitely depend on your personality and chemistry with the guy. Having rules on a date is bizarre. Of course, there needs to be proper decorum, but I don’t see anything wrong with having a drink on a date. Would it make a difference if your second date was at a shabbos table and he had a lchaim? Also, I am clearly out of town, so if there are rules where you are from, diregard this. Hatzlacha with dating!

    #770528

    ravshalom
    Participant

    Daas Yochid: Did you bother to even read the SA you quoted? Not to mention the Rama…

    For all those concerned, the SA specifically says that the issue is only if someone is ???? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ??????. This clearly refers to a situation such as a pub or a bar, not a date in a hotel lounge. Further, the Rama cites numerous Rishonim and Acharonim that beer made from grain (such as most beer on the market today) would be permitted, and that such is the minhag in ?????? ??? i.e. Ashkenazi communities.

    #770529

    Pac-Man
    Member

    rshalom: What is the minhag of Ashkenazi communities? Certainly not to drink in a bar C”V. The S”A cited by DY clearly prohibits that.

    #770531

    apushatayid
    Participant

    Doesnt the Rma say that “shechar shel tvuah” the minhag is to be meikel?

    Either way, bar, in the context of a hotel lounge means the place from where the drinks are purchased/served, one orders a glass of water or a diet coke at this bar as well.

    Its ironic, the reason for the gezeirah is “chasunos” and this is where everyone goes for dates.

    #770532

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Would you have felt any different if he had ordered Wine (Assuming they had Kosher wine) or a cocktail (Pina Colada , Stawberry Dacquri etc)

    #770533

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    A lounge has the same status as a bar.

    The ??”? and ??”? are ?????, and the ?”? writes ?????? ?????. The ???? ??? writes ???? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ???.

    #770534

    Sacrilege
    Member

    Just to break it down. I’m going to assume that since you went to a lounge on a second date you probably associate yourself in the more “Yeshivish” circles.

    Good decision, your better off without the bum.

    Besides he doesnt take your safety seriously. Hotel lounges dont usually give the standard 12 oz bottle, they have beer on tap and give you a large cup. Good chance he was driving inebriated.

    #770535

    shlishi
    Member

    DY: So the issur is only to drink alcohol where it is served (i.e. a bar), and not a non-alcoholic beverage (i.e. a hotel lounge)?

    #770536

    “Good decision, your better off without the bum”

    In terms of her safety, the average male can drink more than 1 beer and still be OK to drive.

    I know of plenty of Frum people that are pillars of their community that enjoy a nice cool one once in a while.

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