February 24, 2019 8:45 pm at 8:45 pm #1684628
Should yeshivas take as many kids as they can handle, or limit it to make sure they have the best kids? If many kids don’t have a place to go, does that change the equation at all?February 24, 2019 8:53 pm at 8:53 pm #1684645
Children benefit from a smaller class size. So the Yeshiva is better to take less children so the class size is smaller.February 24, 2019 8:54 pm at 8:54 pm #1684644☕️coffee addictParticipant
YesFebruary 24, 2019 10:09 pm at 10:09 pm #1684655
There are a bunch of kids who don’t have yeshivas in my neighborhood. In Lakewood they closed all schools rather than leave the situation as is. Should my neighborhood do it too?February 24, 2019 10:20 pm at 10:20 pm #1684667
Open new yeshivos and bais yaakovs.February 24, 2019 10:21 pm at 10:21 pm #1684669☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
Are they literally not being accepted in any yeshiva, or are the parents being selective and refusing to send to certain yeshivas?February 24, 2019 11:19 pm at 11:19 pm #1684676GadolhadorahParticipant
As we have noted on multiple threads and multiple times, a school is ultimately a business that must raise sufficient revenues through tuition and donations to cover the costs of chinuch. Up to a certain point where the school has open desks and class sizes are not too high, there is very little incremental costs incurred by adding more students but when that point is reached, either they have to find additional revenue stream and additional physical facilities or stop accepting new admissions. Diluting the quality of education for students already enrolled just to accept more students is unfair to everyone.February 25, 2019 12:20 am at 12:20 am #1684698BenephraimParticipant
The קבלה of chazal was אלף נכנסים למקרא. Then and only then is אחד יוצא. Any change in this formula of a bottom heavy enrollment causes negative results for כלל ישראל. Chas vesholom.February 25, 2019 8:10 am at 8:10 am #1684705WinnieThePoohParticipant
Classic argument that goes back to the days of Avraham Avinu- at least according to the way I learned how to understand the 2 opinions of what the Eshel he planted was- Pundak or Pardes. Pundak is an inn, open for all, corresponding to a teaching philosophy where all are accepted, the more the better. Pardes is an orchard, exclusive to one type of tree, corresponding to the philosophy pf elitism, training only the best of a certain type. The machlokes was which policy Avraham followed when teaching his geirim. Perhaps the answer is both- both types of approaches are needed in parallel.February 25, 2019 8:11 am at 8:11 am #1684717MistykinsParticipant
Any way you look at it, the families lose. A large class means children aren’t getting proper attention/ support. A high tuition isn’t compatible with most family incomes. Yes, a school is a business, but it should be run to support the children’s needs.
The unpopular but sensible answer is to model a yeshiva after your local public school system. I don’t know everything about public schools, but I know they contain something like 500-2000 kids each, and each in a central location. If schools could find a way to cooperate (and a large enough building), the solution to the problem is combining several schools into 1 building. Many public schools have 4-6 wings for different grades and a central cafeteria/ gym/ library. If 4-6 smaller schools each rented 1 wing (each with their own administration / classrooms, but then took turns on using the gym and cafeteria), they could save a lot on rental costs. A few less buses would roll through town, because they would each be going to 1 building instead of 4. Tuition is lower, gridlock is lessened, families are better off.
Either way, whether the answer is quality or enrollment, something needs to be done soon. There are constantly houses going up, children ready to start school, and no place to educate them. We need to slow the growth and plan for our children’s needs.February 25, 2019 8:11 am at 8:11 am #1684733zahavasdadParticipant
Opening up new schools is easier said than done, You have to have $5-$10 Million just to acquire the land and build the building, then you have to get kids to enroll, then you have to have afew million more to get teachers and other adminstrative personal (like Janitors, secrataries etc)
Just look around you, you will many times see buldings that were started but stopped in the middle because they didnt have enough fundsFebruary 25, 2019 8:16 am at 8:16 am #1684750☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
The unpopular but sensible answer is to model a yeshiva after your local public school system.
In NYC, the cost per student is around $18,000 annually. That’s not a sensible system to emulate.February 25, 2019 8:17 am at 8:17 am #1684749
Closing all schools till ll children have a place to learn.That is a wonderful concept, to pressure ALL of us to find solutions for each individual.
Many feel, “ani, ess nafshi hitzalti” (I saved my own soul) – that is all that matters, but no, “imo onochi b’tzaraa” (I am with you in your anguish), we ARE “shomer achi onoch” (guardians of our brothers) and have an achrayus (responsibility) to each other!
My question: Why is this concept not extended to other crisis,like – the shidduch crisis? No one in the class can get married till EACH and EVERY girl of that class finds a shidduch! Yes, some engagements will be lengthened, but it creates a COMMUNAL pressure that until each girl in that class gets engaged, no Rov will be m’sader kiddushin!
You want to go to the chuppah, then instead of spending energy on the wedding gown and type of flowers – spend time with your chosson to get each of your classmates engaged!
Of course, this would need cooperation on a global level (it isn’t containable to one city) and there might be special exceptions made (when a Bais Din decides that weddings can go ahead e.g. a parent is terminally ill and wedding cannot e delayed or a particular single is “in Bais Din’s opinion” sabotaging her own shidduchim prospects).
We are an “Am novon v’chochom” (a smart nation) and the CR has the brightest of Our People contributing, so we could work out the fine tuning and implement this beautiful idea that WORKS for schooling to solve (or at least alleviate) the shidduch crisis!
I am not hacking or trolling but saying divrei emes v’sholom.
We CAN do this!!!February 25, 2019 8:30 am at 8:30 am #1684760
ZD: No need for MO style fancy school buildings and expenses. You can do well on a shoestring budget.February 25, 2019 9:11 am at 9:11 am #1684811kollelmanParticipant
18k is for cronyism and teachers unions. It can be done WAY more efficiently than NYC DOE.February 25, 2019 9:14 am at 9:14 am #1684813jdbParticipant
I challenge the premise of this qyestion. Yeshivas need to accept good boys and young men, and yeshivas need to keep their avirah. Yeshias serve the community and the community serves the yeshiva. There is no such thing as the best kids. There are young men who are the most advanced intellectually. And they should have an intellectually challenging environment to grow in. There are amazing young men who daven and learn b’hasmaddah, and there are those who excel in chessed or overcoming personal challenges. This doesn’t mean that they are any less than anyone else.February 25, 2019 9:16 am at 9:16 am #1684818CTLAWYERParticipant
“Mama, can Avremi and Yossi stay for dinner?”
“You know I only made enough for the family”
Tateh to Mama: “Put a little more water in the soup”
At some point the soup may be filling, but has little nutritional value!
Just because we can squeeze another student or two into the classroom, doesn’t mean a quality education can be delivered to all the students.
Not every Rebbi is capable of teaching the same number of students and not every classroom mix is the sameFebruary 25, 2019 10:02 am at 10:02 am #1684832👑RebYidd23Participant
So how do we decide which children to feed and which children to simply watch as they slowly starve to death?February 25, 2019 10:03 am at 10:03 am #1684868
CTLaw – the moshel is excellent but with a minor revision that I added, which alters the outcome:
“Mama, can Avremi and Yossi stay for dinner – their family has no food and they haven’t eaten anything in three days?”
“You know I only made enough for the family – we need our daily three meals full of nutrition to maintain our good health (chayecha kodmim)”
Tateh to Mama: “Put a little more water in the soup – lo sa’amod al damm reyecha”February 25, 2019 10:19 am at 10:19 am #1684889GadolhadorahParticipant
Keeping ALL stuidents out of school to resolve the school assignment/acceptance issues for a small number of students having difficulty finding a match make no sense. You don’t fix the problem by holding a gun to the heads of parents who have zero ability to fix the problem by keeping their kids from learning, creating enormous disruption to their daily lives since most work and have no alternative day care arrangements etc. You are not going to build new classrooms overnight and temporary trailer classrooms on school athletic field or parking lots may not be an option in crowded urban locations. Perhaps consider some hybrid arrangement using the public schools on a limited basis so the kids get a mimimal amount of secular instruction and organize interim afternoon programs at shuls and other mosdos for limudei torah for a few weeks until some additional space can be found at regular yeshivos. Again, many frum parents may not want their kids to attend a “public” school even for a few weeks and would rather teach them at home until a desk opens at a local yeshiva.February 25, 2019 4:01 pm at 4:01 pm #1685109LOTR92Participant
mistykins got it right. A central location with several tracks, AKA different yeshivos, if you want, in the same building with a shared lunch room, gym, etc. This lets people share the burden of paying for maintenance and rent, or the cost of the building. A load shared is a load halved. This would also allow students to switch, if necessary, to a school or track more suited to him without having to go crazy finding out about the school or students, after all he is already there and knows them. If this can be done with classes of 15-25 it would solve almost anyone’s needs. A school psychologist would be helpful, I don’t understand why they are so frowned upon in Jewish schools.February 25, 2019 4:01 pm at 4:01 pm #1685111
New wrinkle: the local schools can easily add parallel classes if they wanted to, and in fact used to have those parallel classes, but shut them down to avoid taking “gimmel” bochurim. In the meantime there’s a serious space shortage and many kids don’t have a high school for next year.February 28, 2019 2:19 pm at 2:19 pm #1687729MistykinsParticipant
RebGolden says “Why is this concept not extended to other crisis,like – the shidduch crisis? No one in the class can get married till EACH and EVERY girl of that class finds a shidduch!”
That is a great solution to the tuition crisis! Everyone waits a few more years to marry and have children, so they have the savings needed to pay tuition when the time comes.
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