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All yeshivish are chareidi (unless one argues the fanatical religious zionist yeshiva students are also yeshivish, which is not how the term is used in Yiddish and English).
Not all chareidim are yeshivish (there are hasidim and sefardim, who are not yeshivish but are charedi).
The broad term is : chareidi
The narrower term is; yeshivishQuestion: To be yeshivish, do you have to attend a yeshiva (either now or in the past) or is wearing a black hat enough?
I thought from the title that there was going to be a rumble. I even brought popcorn.
Yeshivish is a subset of chareidi.
akuperma, what is the definition of yeshivish and what is the definition of chareidi? You seem to be defining yeshivish as “litvish chareidi”, which seems totally arbitrary to me. Do chasidim and sefardim not also have yeshivos?
Growing up in America, I don’t think I ever heard the term chareidi until I was about 15. I think it is still true that most shomrei mitzvos in America describe themselves as “frum”, and if they need to distinguish between different groups of frum Jews they talk about “yeshivish” or “black hat” as opposed to “modern Orthodox” or “kippa seruga”. I think the use of chareidi to describe American frum Jews is a very recent phenomenon, and incorrect, since the nuances between frum Jews in Israel and America are completely different.RE: What makes someone yeshivish and not mainstream charedi??
1. Not being a Hasid
2. Not being a Sefardi (non-Ashkenazi) baal ha-bayis (but can you be both Sefardi and yeshivish, and in that case should we say there are two flavors of “yeshivish”, Ashkenazi and Sefardi.
3. Especially in greater New York City, even goyim mix in Yiddish with their English. Many people wear loafers for many reasons (not wanting to tie shoes on Shabbos, arthritis that makes it hard to tie shoes, etc.), How one wears a yarmulke is a function of head shape (though choice of yarmulke is a fashion statement with socio-political overtones).
You know, it’s really funny how the language has shifted in the last 10 to 15 years. When I came to EY to learn in yeshiva, no one referred to the broader frum community as chareidi. The bochurim in the big name brisker yeshivos in Yerushalayim, arguably the most culturally perceptive subgroup in orthodox jewry, reserved the word chareidi for the yerushalmim, exclusively. Not just anyone who lived in Yerushalayim, just those who make up the ‘old guard’ of yerushalayim’s residents, and their families. I highly doubt you could find the word chareidi in any jewish magazines up until the last ten years or so. Chareidi today just means religious, with a slight bent towards making religion the focus of your life as opposed to enjoying life while being religious. Yeshivish doesn’t have an accurate description. It’s like asking to describe the color blue. If you know you know, if not, you can only come to understanding it through experiencing it.
Yeshivish vs. Chareidi: Worst WWE wrestling match ever. Chairs are much better for head-bashing than volumes of Talmud.
I second Toi’s comment. Growing up in America I never heard the term chareidi, and all shomrei mitzvos I knew referred to themselves as “frum”. If they needed to make distinctions, then some people were “yeshivish” or “black hat”, as opposed to “modern Orthodox”.
The difference between yeshivish and chareidi is pretty clear. Chareidim live in Israel; frum Jews in chutz la’aretz aren’t chareidi. The cultural nuances are completely different.Chreidi is the N word of the Jews. Use a different term.
“Chareidi” is an Israeli term that refers to Israelis who believe that the proper lifestyle for a Yid is to stay in Yeshiva rather than join the Tzahal.
“Yeshivish” is an American term that refers to a frum Jew who isn’t modern Orthodox.
They are two separate things that refer to two separate concepts, even if there is a lot of overlap.
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