July 4, 2019 1:05 pm at 1:05 pm #1752672Defend ChabadParticipant
Avi k: “DC, you are also wrong. It comes from Belarus.”
Nope, it comes from Russia, and this a ridiculous argument to have, as you can easily look up these facts on the Internet. I would refer you to Wikipedia though, and then you’ll tell me what you think….July 5, 2019 7:50 am at 7:50 am #1752917Avi KParticipant
DC, Lyubavichi is currently part of Russia but it is on the border of Belarus and is part of the ethnic territory of the Belarusian (Ruthenian) people according Yefim Karskiy and Mitrofan Dovnar-Zapol’skiy . At the time Chabad was established it was ruled locally by Ruthenian aristocrats.July 5, 2019 8:18 pm at 8:18 pm #1753109
Avi: Belarusian and Ruthenian are two different ethnic groups. The Ruthenians are based mostly on the border area of Ukraine, Hungary and Slovakia.July 18, 2019 11:45 pm at 11:45 pm #1761511charliehallParticipant
Hebrew has been the language of the Jewish people since Moshe Rabbeinu. There are more Seforim in English than in Yiddish. Harvard distributes translations of the Latin commencement address.November 17, 2019 2:15 pm at 2:15 pm #1801439
I wonder how those supporting Yiddish only speeches would feel if there were speeches only in Ladino or Arabic instead.
Going Yiddish only in an undercover way of rejecting Sephardim. Many Sephardim study along the daf yomi. The event should be exclusively in English to be available for all Jews.November 17, 2019 4:14 pm at 4:14 pm #1801445
Doing English only is an undercover way of rejecting French and Israeli Jews who don’t know English. Where’s the French and Ivrit?
Skipping Yiddish rejects the Yiddish speakers who represent about half of American Orthodoxy.November 17, 2019 4:16 pm at 4:16 pm #1801471
“The event should be exclusively in English to be available for all Jews.”
You clearly have not read this thread. Perhaps may neighbor Aizik can explain. his words follow:
Ello, I am not spik or rite english so good, but I vant yoo to understand zis eezy gedank. I em very looking toward di siyum hashas. I not understanding english good, but most people do so most speeches vill be in english. makes sense. But I vould like to understand some speeches also, in farshtayt zich the rest of my shil, who speak even fewer english then me also vant to go.
why can’t you fargin a few speeches in yiddish so ve all can enjoy.
Yoo mention Ladino and Arabic, are there anyone who only speeks ladino and arabic and not english? If yes then of course they shood be included, if not mai inyan shemita eitzel har sinai? .
Best vishes and kol tuv
AizikNovember 17, 2019 6:55 pm at 6:55 pm #1801525Reb EliezerParticipant
It satisfies chasidish yeshivas which learn in yiddish as I did. When I am asked to speak Torah infront of a goup, I ask them, what language they want me to speak. Personally, I rather speak in yiddish.November 20, 2019 6:55 am at 6:55 am #1802402charliehallParticipant
“Yiddish is our historical common tongue.”
Actually Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic, and Ladino are much more the historical Jewish languages. Yiddish is a latecomer and unlike the other four there are almost no sefarim written in it.November 25, 2019 12:10 pm at 12:10 pm #1804246
CH: I agree. So why can’t we use those languages then. Unless someone was “learning” daf yomi with Artscroll, then they should be able to understand it all.November 25, 2019 12:59 pm at 12:59 pm #1804286
CH: you are joking? almost no sefarim written in yiddish? Here are at least 3. What about the chumash beis yehuda (http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14361&st=&pgnum=4), taamei haminhagim (http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=36722&st=&pgnum=1&hilite=) and the kitzur shulchan aruch (http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=36344&st=&pgnum=1&hilite=)?November 25, 2019 3:58 pm at 3:58 pm #1804337☢️ 🚭 ☣️ Rand0m3x 🧠🕴️🎲Participant
Also Tzenah Urenah, and Orchos Tzaddikim was first published
in Yiddish translation. But the question is how many compared to other languages.November 25, 2019 5:14 pm at 5:14 pm #1804350
The kitzur shulchan aruch was written in Hebrew. It could be a Yiddish translation was later made but that is simply a translation.
All this is irrelevant. What is relevant is this : what is the spoken language of 90-95% of the siyum hashas participants on Jan 1 2020 in Met life stadium. The spoken language o Jews in various countries over the millennium is an interesting discussion but this is not the place for it.
If indeed the amount of Yiddish speeches corresponds to the percentage of people in Met life stadium who primarily speak that language and have difficulty understanding English then I back down and stand corrected.November 25, 2019 5:15 pm at 5:15 pm #1804348
The number of published works is not a good gauge
A better gauge would be percentage of Jewish Published works that were in Yiddish then vs English today
In other words, obviously there are more published English works than there were Yiddish works but there are also much more Hebrew works (today) than there were Hebrew works (then) .November 25, 2019 6:20 pm at 6:20 pm #1804363GadolhadorahParticipant
I still don’t understand why the organizers don’t simply provide near-simultaneous English translation of the Yiddish presentations on the huge screens easily visible from everywhere in MetLife stadium. That would eliminate this seemingly endless debate.November 25, 2019 10:00 pm at 10:00 pm #1804467
“If indeed the amount of Yiddish speeches corresponds to the percentage of people in Met life stadium who primarily speak that language and have difficulty understanding English then I back down and stand corrected.”
CTR: Yasher Koach for backing down and standing corrected like a mentsch.November 26, 2019 12:37 am at 12:37 am #1804482
Why not do the whole thing in Hebrew and Aramaic? The only people that would be lost is those that “learned” from Artscroll.November 26, 2019 2:13 am at 2:13 am #1804493Jersey JewParticipant
Wow, what a self centered question. What about the people that learn the daf in YIDDISH? Someone spoke on Hebrew last time and I didn’t understand most of it. Oh well, I’M NOT THE ONLY ONE AND NEITHER ARE YOU.November 26, 2019 2:24 am at 2:24 am #1804481dullradianceParticipant
You may be interested in reading an article by Rabbi Bender in the Jewish Observer from over 30 years ago. “Mamme Loshon Is Precious, But Is It Talking To Us?” agudathisrael.org/the-jewish-observer-vol-21-no-5-summer-1988tammuz-av-5748
Rabbi (Josh) Silvermintz wrote a response pointing out the ties between the post war generation and Europe and the role of Yiddish. Alas I cannot find the reference.November 26, 2019 7:49 am at 7:49 am #1804523rabbidovidParticipant
Big deal, grow up peoples. Like no one here ever spaced out for 20 minutes. Or learn the Daf. Or bring headphones and listen to Rosseta Stone Yiddish classes. Just go with the flow. It’s healthier that way.November 26, 2019 7:49 am at 7:49 am #1804521iacisrmmaParticipant
rebbeDebbie: Please do not denigrate the role of ArtSroll in the proliferation of the learning of the Daf, a point specifically mentioned by the noviminsker rebbe at the 11th siyum in 1985 when he stated “that we have to recognize the role of the shottenstein edition of the SHAS that has come to assist and quench the thirst of those who wish to drink from the wellsprings of the torah”.November 26, 2019 10:12 am at 10:12 am #1804572
R’ Dovid- I could maybe hear your point from our perspective. However from the perspective of a speaker how could he take on that responsibility of wasting thousands of people’s time? Let’s say half the people there are not so comfortable with Yiddish or don’t understand it at all. Those 20 min are = to 15,000 hours wasted. It’s hard to hear one speaker get up and talk about the importance of limud hatorah and the value of time and the next gets up with a shotgun and blows away 15,000 hours of human life.November 26, 2019 11:37 am at 11:37 am #1804604
CTR: I haven’t seen you complain about the Ivrit speech given at the last Siyum.November 26, 2019 12:23 pm at 12:23 pm #1804631rationalParticipant
Every Yeshiva should be teaching their talmidim Ivrit and Yiddish from an early age.
That some in the Torah Community are arguing against Yiddish speeches at the most unifying gathering in Torah America is mind-boggling.
Study Yiddish, know it and love it, it is priceless.November 26, 2019 12:56 pm at 12:56 pm #1804663
I do not recall anyone giving a speech in Ivrit at the last siyum.
Rational- I am sure that Yiddish is a lovely language and there would be a minimal benefit to learning it. I think the time investment to do so is not worth it. I think I could learn how my car works in less time and there is a lot more practical benefit to learning that skill.
Are there any gedolim alive today that do not speak either fluent English or Hebrew as a primary language?
30 years ago there were. Today, unfortunately, they are gone. Time to realize we live in a different world and get wth the program.November 26, 2019 12:57 pm at 12:57 pm #1804668
rational, saying that everyone should learn yiddish is coming from a position of privilege and promoting Ashkenormativity. It erases Sephardim and their history from Klal Yisrael. Sephardim have been around longer than Ashkenazim, yet for some reason many yeshivot continually dismiss Sephardi minhagim. Yiddish only is not the way to go.November 26, 2019 12:57 pm at 12:57 pm #1804669GadolhadorahParticipant
I assume Rav Kotler from Lakewood speaks English even though he grew up in EY but subsequently left his family there and came to the U.S. in the early 1980s to become Rosh Yeshiva of BMG when his father was niftar. Someone may know more details but it may just be his preference to do his presentation at the siyum in Yiddish as I assume he does for all his BMG shiurim and schmoozes.November 26, 2019 1:13 pm at 1:13 pm #1804686
Any decent speaker must understand his crowd. BMG is not met life stadium.
Rav Pam was quite fluent in Yiddish and perhaps even more so than English (I was not zoche to spend time with him) . I do know that when he spoke at a Torah Umesorah conference where the overwhelming majority were Orthodox teachers and principals he addressed every single person in the room. Not only did he speak in English but if he said a Hebrew or Yiddish word or phrase he would translate it. Up the word “menorah” which he figured the attendees knew what a menorah was. Everything else was translated. In my mind, that is gadlus. Taking into account the people in your audience.
If there is a gathering for the siyum hashas in Israel I would not expect the speeches to be in English. However if they do make the speeches in Yiddish instead of Hebrew they will be sending a message of “if you are not chareidi, go home. You are not welcome here..”November 26, 2019 2:47 pm at 2:47 pm #1804719
CTR: There are gedolei yisroel as well as pashuteh yidden in Eretz Yisroel and other non-English speaking countries that do not know English but are fluent in Yiddish. Hence, yes, there very certainly is great benefits for English-speakers to know Yiddish to communicate with Yidden the world over who don’t speak English.November 26, 2019 3:52 pm at 3:52 pm #1804763
RebbeDebbie: It seems that you and another poster have this complex. Ashkenazim are not trying to erase sefardim and their history from klal yisroel.November 26, 2019 4:27 pm at 4:27 pm #1804738
CTRebbe: do you know that Rav Pam started the new cycle at the 10th Siyum Hashas and spoke entirely in Yiddish.
Im not sure the mods will allow the link.
if not google: Rav Pam Nassau ColiseumNovember 26, 2019 5:26 pm at 5:26 pm #1804775
Well, gee wilikers- I”ll be darned.January 2, 2020 11:06 am at 11:06 am #1816116
Apparently the organizers of the siyum pay attention to the discussions on the YWM coffee room. Only one Yiddish speech yesterday.
Based on my survey of the participants in Met Life stadium
.3% speak Yiddish as their primary language and do not understand much English
2.6% speak Yiddish as their primary language but are just as comfortable with English
33.2% speak English as their primary language and are somewhat comfortable with Yiddish
63.4% speak English as their primary language and do not understand much Yiddish
.5% OtherJanuary 2, 2020 1:13 pm at 1:13 pm #1816477
CTRebbe: Your post reminds me about the office of incomplete statistics who found that 4 out of 5………
How big was your population of “Based on my survey of the participants in Met Life stadium”?January 2, 2020 1:13 pm at 1:13 pm #1816479Avi KParticipant
CTRebbe, am I correct in assuming that the last half percent understand neither English nor Yiddish?January 2, 2020 1:45 pm at 1:45 pm #1816489
CT rebbe you must have been sitting in some isolated section
In most of the stadium your numbers are way off.
Lets start with the obvious Most chasidim speak yiddish as their primary language but are comfortable (though not neccesarily “just as comfortable” with english
You have this group as being 2.6% of the attendance .
Pictures are widely available. you can identify the chasidim by their long peyos (sidelocks) and fur lined hats (allegedly made of beaver fur hence their name though there are some other chasidik modes of dress but I dont want to confuse you
Here are some pictures, I’m curious if you think only 2.6% are chasidim
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