Yiddish at Siyum hashas

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  • #1752672

    Defend Chabad
    Participant

    Avi k: “DC, you are also wrong. It comes from Belarus.”
    Nope, it comes from Russia, and this a ridiculous argument to have, as you can easily look up these facts on the Internet. I would refer you to Wikipedia though, and then you’ll tell me what you think….

    #1752917

    Avi K
    Participant

    DC, Lyubavichi is currently part of Russia but it is on the border of Belarus and is part of the ethnic territory of the Belarusian (Ruthenian) people according Yefim Karskiy and Mitrofan Dovnar-Zapol’skiy . At the time Chabad was established it was ruled locally by Ruthenian aristocrats.

    #1753109

    Joseph
    Participant

    Avi: Belarusian and Ruthenian are two different ethnic groups. The Ruthenians are based mostly on the border area of Ukraine, Hungary and Slovakia.

    #1761511

    charliehall
    Participant

    Hebrew has been the language of the Jewish people since Moshe Rabbeinu. There are more Seforim in English than in Yiddish. Harvard distributes translations of the Latin commencement address.

    #1801439

    RebbeDebbie
    Participant

    I wonder how those supporting Yiddish only speeches would feel if there were speeches only in Ladino or Arabic instead.

    Going Yiddish only in an undercover way of rejecting Sephardim. Many Sephardim study along the daf yomi. The event should be exclusively in English to be available for all Jews.

    #1801445

    Joseph
    Participant

    Doing English only is an undercover way of rejecting French and Israeli Jews who don’t know English. Where’s the French and Ivrit?

    Skipping Yiddish rejects the Yiddish speakers who represent about half of American Orthodoxy.

    #1801471

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “The event should be exclusively in English to be available for all Jews.”

    You clearly have not read this thread. Perhaps may neighbor Aizik can explain. his words follow:

    Ello, I am not spik or rite english so good, but I vant yoo to understand zis eezy gedank. I em very looking toward di siyum hashas. I not understanding english good, but most people do so most speeches vill be in english. makes sense. But I vould like to understand some speeches also, in farshtayt zich the rest of my shil, who speak even fewer english then me also vant to go.

    why can’t you fargin a few speeches in yiddish so ve all can enjoy.
    Yoo mention Ladino and Arabic, are there anyone who only speeks ladino and arabic and not english? If yes then of course they shood be included, if not mai inyan shemita eitzel har sinai? .

    Best vishes and kol tuv
    Aizik

    #1801525

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    It satisfies chasidish yeshivas which learn in yiddish as I did. When I am asked to speak Torah infront of a goup, I ask them, what language they want me to speak. Personally, I rather speak in yiddish.

    #1802402

    charliehall
    Participant

    “Yiddish is our historical common tongue.”

    Actually Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic, and Ladino are much more the historical Jewish languages. Yiddish is a latecomer and unlike the other four there are almost no sefarim written in it.

    #1804246

    RebbeDebbie
    Participant

    CH: I agree. So why can’t we use those languages then. Unless someone was “learning” daf yomi with Artscroll, then they should be able to understand it all.

    #1804286

    CH: you are joking? almost no sefarim written in yiddish? Here are at least 3. What about the chumash beis yehuda (http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14361&st=&pgnum=4), taamei haminhagim (http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=36722&st=&pgnum=1&hilite=) and the kitzur shulchan aruch (http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=36344&st=&pgnum=1&hilite=)?

    #1804337

    Also Tzenah Urenah, and Orchos Tzaddikim was first published
    in Yiddish translation. But the question is how many compared to other languages.

    #1804350

    CTRebbe
    Participant

    The kitzur shulchan aruch was written in Hebrew. It could be a Yiddish translation was later made but that is simply a translation.
    All this is irrelevant. What is relevant is this : what is the spoken language of 90-95% of the siyum hashas participants on Jan 1 2020 in Met life stadium. The spoken language o Jews in various countries over the millennium is an interesting discussion but this is not the place for it.
    If indeed the amount of Yiddish speeches corresponds to the percentage of people in Met life stadium who primarily speak that language and have difficulty understanding English then I back down and stand corrected.

    #1804348

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    The number of published works is not a good gauge

    A better gauge would be percentage of Jewish Published works that were in Yiddish then vs English today

    In other words, obviously there are more published English works than there were Yiddish works but there are also much more Hebrew works (today) than there were Hebrew works (then) .

    #1804363

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    I still don’t understand why the organizers don’t simply provide near-simultaneous English translation of the Yiddish presentations on the huge screens easily visible from everywhere in MetLife stadium. That would eliminate this seemingly endless debate.

    #1804467

    Joseph
    Participant

    “If indeed the amount of Yiddish speeches corresponds to the percentage of people in Met life stadium who primarily speak that language and have difficulty understanding English then I back down and stand corrected.”

    CTR: Yasher Koach for backing down and standing corrected like a mentsch.

    #1804482

    RebbeDebbie
    Participant

    Why not do the whole thing in Hebrew and Aramaic? The only people that would be lost is those that “learned” from Artscroll.

    #1804493

    Jersey Jew
    Participant

    Wow, what a self centered question. What about the people that learn the daf in YIDDISH? Someone spoke on Hebrew last time and I didn’t understand most of it. Oh well, I’M NOT THE ONLY ONE AND NEITHER ARE YOU.

    #1804481

    dullradiance
    Participant

    You may be interested in reading an article by Rabbi Bender in the Jewish Observer from over 30 years ago. “Mamme Loshon Is Precious, But Is It Talking To Us?” agudathisrael.org/the-jewish-observer-vol-21-no-5-summer-1988tammuz-av-5748

    Rabbi (Josh) Silvermintz wrote a response pointing out the ties between the post war generation and Europe and the role of Yiddish. Alas I cannot find the reference.

    #1804523

    rabbidovid
    Participant

    Big deal, grow up peoples. Like no one here ever spaced out for 20 minutes. Or learn the Daf. Or bring headphones and listen to Rosseta Stone Yiddish classes. Just go with the flow. It’s healthier that way.

    #1804521

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    rebbeDebbie: Please do not denigrate the role of ArtSroll in the proliferation of the learning of the Daf, a point specifically mentioned by the noviminsker rebbe at the 11th siyum in 1985 when he stated “that we have to recognize the role of the shottenstein edition of the SHAS that has come to assist and quench the thirst of those who wish to drink from the wellsprings of the torah”.

    #1804572

    CTRebbe
    Participant

    R’ Dovid- I could maybe hear your point from our perspective. However from the perspective of a speaker how could he take on that responsibility of wasting thousands of people’s time? Let’s say half the people there are not so comfortable with Yiddish or don’t understand it at all. Those 20 min are = to 15,000 hours wasted. It’s hard to hear one speaker get up and talk about the importance of limud hatorah and the value of time and the next gets up with a shotgun and blows away 15,000 hours of human life.

    #1804604

    Joseph
    Participant

    CTR: I haven’t seen you complain about the Ivrit speech given at the last Siyum.

    #1804631

    rational
    Participant

    Every Yeshiva should be teaching their talmidim Ivrit and Yiddish from an early age.

    That some in the Torah Community are arguing against Yiddish speeches at the most unifying gathering in Torah America is mind-boggling.

    Study Yiddish, know it and love it, it is priceless.

    #1804663

    CTRebbe
    Participant

    I do not recall anyone giving a speech in Ivrit at the last siyum.

    Rational- I am sure that Yiddish is a lovely language and there would be a minimal benefit to learning it. I think the time investment to do so is not worth it. I think I could learn how my car works in less time and there is a lot more practical benefit to learning that skill.

    Are there any gedolim alive today that do not speak either fluent English or Hebrew as a primary language?
    30 years ago there were. Today, unfortunately, they are gone. Time to realize we live in a different world and get wth the program.

    #1804668

    RebbeDebbie
    Participant

    rational, saying that everyone should learn yiddish is coming from a position of privilege and promoting Ashkenormativity. It erases Sephardim and their history from Klal Yisrael. Sephardim have been around longer than Ashkenazim, yet for some reason many yeshivot continually dismiss Sephardi minhagim. Yiddish only is not the way to go.

    #1804669

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    I assume Rav Kotler from Lakewood speaks English even though he grew up in EY but subsequently left his family there and came to the U.S. in the early 1980s to become Rosh Yeshiva of BMG when his father was niftar. Someone may know more details but it may just be his preference to do his presentation at the siyum in Yiddish as I assume he does for all his BMG shiurim and schmoozes.

    #1804686

    CTRebbe
    Participant

    Any decent speaker must understand his crowd. BMG is not met life stadium.

    Rav Pam was quite fluent in Yiddish and perhaps even more so than English (I was not zoche to spend time with him) . I do know that when he spoke at a Torah Umesorah conference where the overwhelming majority were Orthodox teachers and principals he addressed every single person in the room. Not only did he speak in English but if he said a Hebrew or Yiddish word or phrase he would translate it. Up the word “menorah” which he figured the attendees knew what a menorah was. Everything else was translated. In my mind, that is gadlus. Taking into account the people in your audience.

    If there is a gathering for the siyum hashas in Israel I would not expect the speeches to be in English. However if they do make the speeches in Yiddish instead of Hebrew they will be sending a message of “if you are not chareidi, go home. You are not welcome here..”

    #1804719

    Joseph
    Participant

    CTR: There are gedolei yisroel as well as pashuteh yidden in Eretz Yisroel and other non-English speaking countries that do not know English but are fluent in Yiddish. Hence, yes, there very certainly is great benefits for English-speakers to know Yiddish to communicate with Yidden the world over who don’t speak English.

    #1804763

    RebbeDebbie: It seems that you and another poster have this complex. Ashkenazim are not trying to erase sefardim and their history from klal yisroel.

    #1804738

    CTRebbe: do you know that Rav Pam started the new cycle at the 10th Siyum Hashas and spoke entirely in Yiddish.

    Im not sure the mods will allow the link.

    https://baltimorejewishlife.com/news/news-detail.php?SECTION_ID=1&ARTICLE_ID=119766

    if not google: Rav Pam Nassau Coliseum

    #1804775

    CTRebbe
    Participant

    Well, gee wilikers- I”ll be darned.

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