Yidl mitn ridl (Hilchos tzitzis)

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  • This topic has 20 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 9 years ago by Sam2.
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  • #615156

    How is it possible for a man to take a pair of kosher tzitzis that are of proper size for him, remove one of the four

    whatever-the-correct-word-for-one-of-the-string-arrangements-is,

    and wear it in the normal fashion, without further modifying or damaging it, in the daytime, and yet not be mevatel the mitzvah

    of tzitzis?

    #1072002

    By wearing another pair with it.

    #1072003
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    If he’s an eved or goy.

    For a Yid, though, each beged with four corners requires tzitzis.

    #1072004

    I realized just a little too late that I had

    left out that they’re his own tzitzis.

    DaasYochid, good for you, but I hadn’t realized

    that would be considered a possibility.

    I’ve revised the riddle accordingly (and made it shorter, too):

    How is it possible for a Jewish adult male to wear (in the daytime) his own tallis or tallis koton (of the proper size) which is posul, without modifying or damaging it, and yet not be mevatel the mitzvah of tzitzis?

    #1072005
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    ????, ????

    #1072006

    Sigh… Think hilchos tzitzis, please, DaasYochid. 🙂

    (Version 3.0)

    How is it possible for a Jewish adult male (of sound mind and not an ????) to wear (in the daytime) his own tallis or tallis koton (of the proper size) which is posul, without modifying or damaging it, and yet not be mevatel the mitzvah of tzitzis?

    #1072007
    Joseph
    Participant

    It is better for a Yid to not wear any four-cornered garment with tzitzis (i.e. he wears no tzitzis) than for him to wear a four-cornered garment with posul tzitzis. There is no chiyuv to wear a four-corner garment with tzitzis. But there is a chiyuv to wear kosher tzitzus on a four-corner garment being worn. So if he isn’t wearing any tzitzus he is committing no aveira. If he is wearing posul tzitzis he is committing an aveira.

    #1072008
    Josh31
    Participant

    It can be a daytime that he is not allowed to add the 4th tzitzis such as Shabbos.

    It could be so hot that he gets no enjoyment from wearing the garment.

    #1072009
    Mammele
    Participant

    He wears it thrown on as one does a blanket, not like a piece of clothing?

    #1072010
    mobico
    Participant

    By removing the fringe through rounding off the corner of the Beged.

    #1072011
    R.T.
    Participant

    By folding it and wearing it around the neck, like a scarf?

    #1072012

    Mammele / R.T.:

    Correct, but I accidentally left out “in the normal fashion”

    from the second and third revisions of the riddle.

    (Version 4.0)

    How is it possible for a Jewish adult male (of sound mind and not an ????) to wear (in the normal fashion, in the daytime) his own tallis or tallis koton (of the proper size) which is posul, without modifying or damaging it, and yet not be mevatel the mitzvah of tzitzis?

    mobico:

    “Without modifying or damaging it.”

    Josh31:

    While I’m sure your first answer is incorrect,

    I don’t know about the second. You might be right,

    although I doubt it. It’s not what I had in mind, though.

    #1072013

    Okay, I may have been laboring under the misconception that one

    does not fulfill the mitzvah with a garment if he was already

    wearing it before the time when one is obligated in tzitzis.

    Thus, it stood to reason that if one cannot fulfill the mitzvah in that case, he would also not be nullifying it if the tzitzis were posul.

    But maybe that’s totally wrong, in which case I retract the riddle.

    Can I get some help here from someone who, unlike me,

    knows what they’re talking about??

    #1072014
    Sam2
    Participant

    According to many Rishonim (and the Rama in the Darchei Moshe, I think), the correct answer is that it’s Shabbos/Yom Tov.

    #1072015
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    It’s a ???? ?????? ????? and according to the ??”?.

    #1072016
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Sam, he wouldn’t be allowed to remove it.

    PAA, he said it’s “a pair of kosher tzitzis”. I wouldn’t consider a ???? ???? according to the ??”? to be that.

    Randomex, you are correct (that the riddle was a mistake).

    #1072017
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    PAA, he said it’s “a pair of kosher tzitzis”. I wouldn’t consider a ???? ???? according to the ??”? to be that.

    I assume he meant that mitzad the strings it was kosher, but that the answer would be a situation in which the begged didn’t require tzitzis. Actually, on Friday I typed up a post to clarify if that is what he meant, and I also made the eved suggestion, but for some reason I didn’t post it.

    #1072018
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Then we could have posited a case where the material was not subject to the chiyuv.

    #1072019

    Also if he is in public and it would be embarrassing he is not Mevatel the Mitzvah. The Rama speaks this out.

    #1072020

    Josh31, it seems I owe you an apology.

    #1072021
    Sam2
    Participant

    Oh. He’s talking about a corpse. That’s the normal fashion for a corpse.

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