January 30, 2020 4:04 pm at 4:04 pm #1827441
With the rapid advances in robotics and artificial intelligence, we are seeing every day new applications of this new technology. Yesterday, it was robots in China “holding” thermal sensers and screening people at train stations for the coronavirus. Today, it was PETA demanding that Punxsutawney Phil be retired from his annual Groundhog’s Day tradition and be replaced with an artificially intelligent robot that could actually predict the weather. PETA noted the annual event dating back to 1886 exploits and stresses out the groundhog to determine whether there will be six more weeks of winter and that several years ago, the ehrliche mayor of NYC accidently dropped and killed a groundhog in a NYC enactment of the Pennsylvania tradition.
All of this brings to mind that scientists and engineers in EY are at the vanguard of this technology and constantly searching for new applications. Should we begin thinking of “virtual korbonos” in the beis hamikdash once Moishiach where a combination of robotics and holographics would replace live goats, cattle and oxen. How about a robotic chazan whose voice and arm movements could be “programmed” for all the various nusachs so that the same shul could be used for Litvish and Sephardishe minyanim. One could have a robot assigned to each chavrusah who would be able to share just about every shitah and exotic meforshim for for all the mesechtos but also be programmed to give a virtual potch if any of the yungerleit dozed off during the the learning. The possibilities are almost endless and I’m certain there are others I’ve not even imagined.January 30, 2020 6:51 pm at 6:51 pm #1827533
The Chacham Tzvi questions whether a golam can be included in a minyan? He says no, even though someone sleeping is included, but he has no neshomoh.January 30, 2020 9:39 pm at 9:39 pm #1827550GoldilocksParticipant
A sleeping person can be included in a minyan?
Seriously? 😮January 31, 2020 12:14 am at 12:14 am #1827598
In SA O’CH 55,6 says if someone falls asleep in the middle of devenen, he is included in the minyan. The MB there s’k 33 says that for leining of the mwgila he would not be included because the miracle must be publicized.January 31, 2020 12:15 am at 12:15 am #1827601
If I recall correctly, the Shulchan Aruch says that a person a person who is sleepin, and even a deaf person are also counted in a minyan, despite the fact that they cannot answer umein after the chazan. But the SA also says that if there are not nine people who have kavanah during the chazan’s recitation of the barachos, those barachos are “close to being” said in vain.
Most meforshim conclude that there is no contradiction (aka the barachos from a minyan sleeping a schnoozer is accepted by the Ebeshter but the barachos from a minyan w/o kavanah may not be yotzeh) because the Shulchan Aruch doesn’t explicitly say not accepted but instead uses the terminology “are close to being,” rejected. They bring down from this that in actuality the chazan’s barachos are not said in vain for minyanim with snoozers and schmoozers. There are disagreements as to how many people that do not actually answer umein can be counted for a minyan with the kulah being up to four schmoozers (aka no kavanah) and one snoozer (aka sleeping) and the chumrah being there always have to be nine daveners with kavanah answering umein during chazaras ha’shatz.
HOWEVER, nowhere in Shulchan aruch does it address whether R2D2 and his robotic friends with a virtual neshamah who meticulously answer uuumeeein v’uumeeein are to be included in minyanim. They would certainly take major offense at being considered a “golam”.January 31, 2020 12:15 am at 12:15 am #1827602
There is a way to use a computer to check a sefer torah pointing out questionable defect that the sofer can fix.January 31, 2020 12:15 am at 12:15 am #1827603kollelmanParticipant
Sleeping person can only be included at some parts of the Tefilah. I believe he also is required to have been awake at the start.January 31, 2020 2:29 am at 2:29 am #1827645JosephParticipant
What if all nine guys in the minyan are sleeping, with the shliach tzibbur being the only awake male?January 31, 2020 2:29 am at 2:29 am #1827648
Shoyn. So how about 10 real daveners with Kavana participating on a videoconference? All can be heard, and all can see the chazan.January 31, 2020 8:19 am at 8:19 am #1827654
The Taz says there that someone who talks in the middle of davenen, should not be included in a minyan.January 31, 2020 8:43 am at 8:43 am #1827658
According to Reb Moshe ztz’l a mic or other electronics like a telephone is not a direct voice but an echo.January 31, 2020 10:47 am at 10:47 am #1827681
Reb Eliezer: Since there is an App for everything, couldn’t some enterprising young bochur with computer skills develop a software package with AI where you could scan an esrog with your iPhone and it would give you an instant readout as to its “quality”. With esrogim now being offered at prices upwards of several hundred dollars, it would allow those without the experience to know whether they are getting their money’s worth. There are Apps where you send a few photos of a used car and its mileage and immediately give you the “suggested price” for your area. Why not esrogim.February 1, 2020 10:04 pm at 10:04 pm #1827898
GH, The original AI problem was how to change a light bulb. It had to be sensitive not to be crushed and to find where it is. A robot would need to scan the esrog and be able to compare it to something. To many good, so maybe it is easier to compare to the bad one.February 2, 2020 12:51 am at 12:51 am #1827925JustHavingFunParticipant
“Virtual korbanos.” heh heh
I have actually wondered if PETA would be protesting at the rebuilt bais hamikdash bimheira b’yameinu!February 3, 2020 12:41 pm at 12:41 pm #1828366kollelmanParticipant
It’s not far-fetched to imagine Alexa or some other digital spy listening to all conversations in a home and realizing that people are cold and raising the heat without being asked to. Same for turning on lights. Shabbos goy no longer needed.February 3, 2020 1:47 pm at 1:47 pm #1828431
Slippery slope, kollelman. So asking Google Assistant to raise the temperature on Shabbos is Assur, and if it obliges a person who remarks. It’s freezing in here!, Kol Beseder?February 3, 2020 2:49 pm at 2:49 pm #18284645ishParticipant
“What if all nine guys in the minyan are sleeping, with the shliach tzibbur being the only awake male?”
What about if even the shliach tzibbur himself is sleeping?February 3, 2020 2:49 pm at 2:49 pm #1828448
When it comes to cold, you can say to a goy, it is cold here.February 3, 2020 4:05 pm at 4:05 pm #1828522
The expression is הכל חולים אצל הצינה everyone is sick when it comes to cold.February 3, 2020 7:08 pm at 7:08 pm #1828584
Reb Eliezer, are you saying that If the AI is trained to respond to “It is Cold” by turning on the heat, that this is allowed?
Could I train my AI Car to respond to “I better hurry or I’ll be late for davening” by rolling up to my doorstep and pop open the car door? Of course it knows where to drop me off, two blocks from my shul, under the overpass where I won’t be seen, because it understands Maras Ayin.
Alternatively instead of training for these specific spoken observations and responses, the AI could be programmed to simply maximize my comfort, and respond to my whinng using its best judgement.
We are Zoicheh to live in a time when these questions need to asked.
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