Yom Kippur Havdala

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  • #613789

    The Frumguy
    Participant

    What is going to be your procedure for making havdala this Motzoei Shabbos/Yom Kippur?

    #1034085

    dafyomi2711
    Member

    It is the same havdala as any other Motoei Shabbos.

    #1034086

    Randomex
    Member

    Well, first I’ll use my Emerald Sword to…

    Wait, what’s wrong with the usual?

    #1034087

    The Frumguy
    Participant

    What kind of flame – existing or new? Besamim or not?

    #1034088

    dafyomi2711
    Member

    a flame from a yahrzeit candle which burned the whole Yom Kippur and besomim just like any regular Shabbos

    #1034089

    Sam2
    Participant

    Pashut Pshat is any candle should be fine. There’s a Pele’dik Magen Avraham that says you need a Ner SheShavas. R’ Schachter has a Chiddush that tries to explain this, but it really is a Pele. It’s not difficult to be M’kayeim this M”A so there’s no reason not to, but B’dieved most seem to hold that it’s not such a big deal to use any candle.

    #1034090

    oomis
    Participant

    Don’t we hold that “Tadir v’eino tadir, tadir kodeim” – so even if aus Yom Kippur Havdallah were different, it is still ALSO aus Shabbos.

    #1034091

    SayIDidIt™
    Participant

    oomis (and anyone else confused with this), the reason why we make a Borei Meore HaEsh on Motzei Shabbos is because Adam first “discovered” fire on Motzei Shabbos when the Ohr Haganuz disappeared at the end of the first Shabbos. So, as a praise and thanks to Hashem, we light a fire on Motzei Shabbos and make a Bracha.

    Yom Kippur has a different reason. On all Yomim Tovim we are allowed to cook and use fire for “ochel nefesh”. On Yom Kippur all melacha is forbidden (like Shabbos), making it stricter then all other Yomim Tovim. Because we could not use fire on Yom Kippur, we light a candle and make Borei Meore HaEsh to show that fire is now permitted to be used.

    This is only done on a “Ner ShShavas”, literally, light that rested, meaning, a candle that was lit before Yom Kippur. This is to show that we had a lit candle avaliable and we did not use it because on Yom Kippur we are forbidden from all melacha, even ochel nefesh. If one has no Ner SheShavas he does not make a Borei Meore HaEsh. (There is a mitzvah to find one and make the Bracha.)

    However, when Yom Kippur is also Shabbos, we have both reason to make the Bracha, Motzei Shabbos and Motzei Yom Kippur. In this case one need not use a Ner SheShavas but can light a new fire and make the Bracha. It is preferable to use a Ner SheShavas so you get both reasons.

    Besamim is not used on a regular Motzei Yom Kippur but on Motzei Shabbos Yom Kippur it is used. Hinei Kel (until Borei Pri HaGofen) is omitted on a regular Motzei Yom Kippur but on Motzei Shabbos Yom Kippur it is recited.

    I have found it hard to light a Havdala candle from the bottom of the Yartzeit (24 hour) candle because the wax has basically run out and the flame is fighting to stay alive. When I try lighting the candle, the flame goes out.

    I thought of a solution to this problem. Instead of using a regular 24 hour candle, use a 48 hour one stop this way the candle has plenty wax underneath it and is not struggling to stay alive. The only problem with this is, what to do with the rest of the candle? I saw that it is not good to extinguish a candle that was burning all Yom Kippur. I may be wrong. I have not tested this idea out yet.

    #1034092

    squeak
    Participant

    Oh sam when will you stop trying to undermine yiddishkeit. If not using a ner sheshavas fhen there is no purpose in using aish at all. Nothing shver about it at all. Yiddishkeit was fine before your ilk started trying to reinvent it to compete with sincere chumros. It seems like every post you make here has some reference to how you are improving yiddishkeit in your shiur cafes.

    #1034093

    SayIDidIt™
    Participant

    I think Sam2 was referring to this year specifically (Motzei Shabbos Yom Kippur).

    #1034094

    SayIDidIt™
    Participant

    Interesting article from the main YW page on Yom Kippur:

    http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/262435/hilchos-umihagei-yom-kippur-5775.html

    ??? ????? ???? ??? ?? ?????!

    #1034095

    yehudayona
    Participant

    The post that SiDi kindly linked to says some do and some don’t use besamim.

    #1034096

    SayIDidIt™
    Participant

    yy, yup! Each their own ????. However, there wouldn’t be anything wrong with doing it even if it’s not your ???? because you can make a ???? on besamim anytime you want.

    #1034097

    The Frumguy
    Participant

    To SayIDidIt:

    “You can make a ???? on besamim anytime you want.”

    There might be a problem with a hefsek in the Havdalah if no besamim is required.

    #1034098

    oomis
    Participant

    oomis (and anyone else confused with this), the reason why we make a Borei Meore HaEsh on Motzei Shabbos is because Adam first “discovered” fire on Motzei Shabbos when the Ohr Haganuz disappeared at the end of the first Shabbos. So, as a praise and thanks to Hashem, we light a fire on Motzei Shabbos and make a Bracha. “

    SIDI, I did know that. It is still Motzai Shabbos two days from now, no? In any case, they make a proper Havdallah for everyone in my Shul after Maariv, so I am pretty certain my Rov will tell them what to do.

    #1034099

    oomis
    Participant

    Meanwhile, I just want to take this opportunity to wish all my CR friends a G’mar Chasimah Tova, a meaningful Yom Kippur fast and having our tefilos niskablos, and above all, shalom al Yisrael.

    #1034100

    old man
    Participant

    “There might be a problem with a hefsek in the Havdalah if no besamim is required.”

    No hefsek.

    Havdalah begins with the brachah of “hamavdil”, everything before it is an introduction.

    #1034101

    SayIDidIt™
    Participant

    The Frumguy, you are right and I didn’t think about that. But if you want, you can make the ???? before or after ????? to be ???? all ?????.

    #1034102

    Sam2
    Participant

    Just to make it clear, my earlier post was indeed only referring to a Yom Kippur SheChal Lihyos B’shabbos. Everyone agrees that on every other Yom Kippur you need a Ner SheShavas.

    #1034103

    Old man: If the only problem with Hefsek were between the Pesukim and Havdalah, you would be right, but there is a Hefsek between the Borei Pri Hagafen and drinking the wine, so Besamim (where not part of the Seder of Havdalah) would be a Hefsek.

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