- This topic has 32 replies, 18 voices, and was last updated 12 years, 8 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
“V’Lo Savi So’eiva El Baisecha V’Hayisa Cheirem Kamohu; Do not bring abomination into your home, you become cheirem like it (Eikev 7:26).” Rav Moshe Shternbuch points out the strong conviction and fact portrayed in this pasuk. The Torah is telling us that when we bring abominations into our home, when we bring the dirt of the entire street, the Hollywood fantasies, the heretical opinions and ideas, we can not say that it does not affect and influence us.
With 100% certainty it will seep into our conscious and subconscious mind until we will be “Cheirem” exactly like these things that we bring into our home. Rav Shternbuch asks, “Who is the person that can refute the Torah outright?”
From Revach.net
interstingly enough,it shtims with the poshut pshat. the gemara learns from here the issur to rent your house to someone who will bring in an avodah zara. maybe cuz it will affect you just by being there. (ayin meshech chochma)
I am quite sure that anyone that wishes to be inspired will choose to go to the website you posted. On the other hand, people who come here are NOT looking for mussar nor to be judged or spoken down to. So I politely ask if we can cut it out and get off that track once again.
Maybe you can quote what Rav Shterbuch says about the internet, I am sure he includes it in his interpretation and yet here you are with the rest of us, so again I say, please stop judging and giving mussar.
Thank you for the chizuk WIY. Please continue posting divrei mussar (that is what this “section” of YWN is for), it is well appreciated and more importantly needed.
Basically it’s all about guarding your eyes. I heard a TV is compared to Avodah Zarah and just like you wouldn’t bring a cross into your home, you shouldn’t bring a TV into your home. It is just very hard for some people to accept as they don’t see that TV or going to movies is a problem and refuse to accept that it will effect them, because most people eventually, forget what they saw, but it stays in the mind FOREVER. I grew up watching TV and wish, I had not seen the things I did.
So I guess some feel that since people have a hard time being omed b’nisayon on the internet, they shouldn’t even bother trying to keep filthy movies out of their home.
I would therefore politely ask that no one ever use this website to try to be mesaken themselves or give inspirational words leading to tikkun in any part of their lives, because after all, if you’re using the internet, whichever gadol says the vort you’re quoting, also is probably anti-internet, so “please stop judging and giving mussar”.
So which movies you gonna see this Motzoei Shabbos?
Al tikrei “to’eiva” ela “telavisia”.
Not so funny you directed to “Movie watchers”, so not so funny even though you just happened to cut and paste. Your message was not lost it was a mussar message towards a particular group of people. So those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.
aries i think you need to chill out just a bit. the op put his topic in inspiration/mussar. what should be posted there- the yankees stats? you can read what you want. but he/she has the can post all the mussar vorts he wants.
Well said WIY. I applaud you.
WIY:
Please don’t take this as an attack, it is not meant as one, simply a suggestion.
There is a very fine line between making a point and going overboard. On several occasions you have made your opinions on this specific topic clear and sometimes it can come across as harping on it. I do agree with you, but maybe its possible to stick to other topics of mussar/Divrei Torah.
I do believe there is something called clean watching, but at the same time I will add that I have seen (IMO) a clear effect of people being exposed to the wrong things.
This problem is a large one and no amount of mussar on it is sufficient. We need to hear how terrible it is as often as possible. The negative consequences of falling for this, especially thinking “its no big deal”, are all too real.
My chavrusa is a bit older than me, and he is somewhat smarter, with a great memory. While I was a work in progress from 13 years old to about 24, he came to Yahadus first as an adult. While I only have “girsa deyankusa”, he has a vast trove. In moments where we share cultural baggage, he has much greater depth. Now, we regard the circumstances of our uprbringings less than perfect, and we distance ourselves from such shmutz today, (my RY holds it, and most “cultural stuff” is assur from “al tifnu el ha’elilim”) it remains a great source for metaphors.
Why are you assuming that the movie watchers are watching filthy movies? In that case should they assume that you are going into filthy areas on the internet? Assumptions can be made both ways.
Therefore it is better to be dan l’kaf zchus and NOT make assumptions and to be careful what you think and what you say to other people. You are walking on very judgmental ground. You have your reasons to be on the internet and other people have their reasons to watch movies. Enough said.
Movies and TV are full of pritzus, violence, shmutz, immorality, promotion of bad behavior, toeiva, and much much worse.
Hacham, so is the internet. Just as you choose where to go and how to channel yourself so can people do the same in other areas. You have the choice and so do they. You can get much more shmutz on the internet and yet here you are. And please don’t tell me you have safety nets and blocks. People can put that on their TV’s and they can choose to watch only appropriate G-rated movies as well.
You and WIY and anyone else backing him up has no good reason for being on the internet which is just as bad and even worse than TV and movies. You can watch TV and Movies on your computer through internet. So lets not have that conversation again. We did it already. My point is NOT to discuss it again. MY point is, just as you guys give yourselves a hetter to be here on the internet, you particularly do NOT have the right to judge other people for watching TV or Movies. The same rabbonim who say THAT is assur, also say the INTERNET is assur.
That is my point, being hypocrites, the pot calling the kettle black. That is what I am asking. Stop judging other people. It has nothing to do with movies or internet. That was already discussed here. WE all know what the rabbonim say about it. OK? WE are sure YOU know what the rabbonim say about the internet. WE don’t care if you and WIY and everyone else is here. Kol Hakovod, do what you want, WE don’t want to judge you. it is YOU guys that want to judge others with your musser. AND yes, it was not just a cut and paste it was directed especially to “those who watch movies”. That is all I am going to say about it. Those who are guilty of judging others will argue my point to death. Those who understand what I am saying will not comment.
i dont think people should be judging. people have a big yeitzer hara for movies and if u dont then good for you.
Hacham-“Movies and TV are full of pritzus, violence, shmutz, immorality, promotion of bad behavior, toeiva, and much much worse.”
i dont think u can make such a blanket statement.
The Internet has a filter at the ISP level that prevents any sites that are not on the approved list. No TV has that. You C”V bring a TV into your home, you can be absolutely certain of the negative consequences both you and your family will inevitably suffer. Same with movies. Other — perhaps — than cartoons, no movie running in the theatures in the last 20 years have been kosher. Full of all the things I mentioned.
cinderella: At least you are on the level to admit that movies are a “big yeitzer hara”. Some people bury their head in the sand so deep they can’t even yet see that. Now you need just working on eliminating that yeitzer hara.
Well, aries, we wouldn’t be discussing this again if you wouldn’t bring it up time and again. I heard your point. But I think it’s time you hear my point. TV and movies ARE NOT equivelent to a FILTERED internet. Again: FILTERED internet does NOT contain as much schmutz as does TV and movies.
NOW, with that out of the way, I’d like to address your other point. You’re right about the fact that most Rabbonim are against the internet. So are they against subways. And against roaming the streets in Manhattan. But, unfortunately, we need parnassa. Some of us must ride the subway to their workplace. Others work on 47th street. And some (including myself) do need the internet for parnassa.
Nevertheless, we are still Yidden. Our Torah is still with us. We have Yirash Shomayim and Shmiras Einayim. Is it easy? No. But whoever said being frum is easy? Is it lechatchila? Of course not. Had it been possible, I wouldn’ve thrown out my computer. But we have to be realistic. Yes, I must have internet. But I don’t go on facebook, twitter etc. My filter has a whitelist – which means MOST of the internet is blocked besides for the sites I asked for and were approved. They also keep track on what I do.
So, yes, the internet is bad and in a way worse than TV. But a person with Yiras shomayim who has a FILTERED internet is NOT the same as somebody who owns a TV and watches movies for entertainment.
Y’know, it’s so easy owning a TV and watching movies. It’s so much more convenient to sit back and say, “Well, YOUR rabbonim said it’s assur to be on the internet, so we’re equal.” Well, I don’t watch TV or movies FOR A REASON. NOT because it’s easier or enjoyable. If you could own a filtered TV that would only broadcast frum shows, we’d be equal.
cinderella, I agree with Hacham on this one (a rare occurence). Movies are full of every trash imaginable. I will definitely say there are some things that are clean (no, not many) but lets call a spade a spade.
(When I say clean I mean kosher, not kosher style. Please no one make excuses for watching something they shouldn’t be.)
I must start this by saying that as a Baal Teshuva, probably everyone here has more knowledge than I, but if it wasn’t for the internet I wouldn’t have a lot of the knowledge that I now hold dear, nor would I be able to learn from sites such as this one, especially as I need to look up quite a number of things people refer to or use. It’s the old, “The more I learn, then more I realize I don’t know.” <G>.
I think that just about every media source has both positives and negatives, all depending upon how it is used.
Do I think a lot of what is on TV or in movies these days is trash? Yes, but I chose which TV shows or movies to see. On TV, I watch news broadcasts. I will also say that I watch some History or Discovery channel shows, etc. but certainly do not watch shows that have people in scantily dress, promote immoral behavior as fun, etc.
It is the same when I pick a movie to enjoy (although my favorite is still the same as when I was 5, The Music Man – which I also understand some may object to because of the male/female dancing, etc).
Do I slip up sometimes and get caught up in a silly sci-fi or such? Of course I do, but, as a rabbi once said to me, that’s why it’s called an avaria. I realize it and look for something else that is entertaining and, at the same time, healthier for my neshama.
One could also apply the same to books. There are plenty of trashy novels out there, but I chose not to read those, preferring instead to read books that will help me learn and/or strengthen my emunah.
There is a reason HaShem gave us free will, it is what we chose to do (or watch) that makes us who we are. The questions are simple: Who do we chose to be and what do we chose to allow to influence our lives.
Please note that I am speaking only of adults, children are another matter entirely.
Listen, I use to work in Law Enforcement. One day I realized that I was cursing a lot more than was typical for me. I made the decision that I didn’t like that and began to set goals for myself. OK, I will go a shift today without cursing, then a week, then it just became a part of who I was and I stopped cursing at all. And this was before I started to become more observant. I was able to do that because I was given free will and was able to chose to change what I felt was a negative behavior.
Shmiras Ainayim is a topic largely discussed in boys’ yeshivas much more than girls’, as females don’t have to worry about that big aveira. (I know there are young ‘uns roaming the CR, so I won’t elucidate…)
I’m curious then if Aries is an older grandmother if this is necessarily an inyan for her as much as for others.
Ayc, I think you are correct. I have heard from Rabbi Shaffier of The Shmuz many times that females just can’t fathom what a male’s taiva is. Even a grandmother who has experienced the world just can’t understand how hard it is to guard against taiva. It’s just one of those things that they have to accept because the Rabbis said so. That being said, it makes sense that aries doesn’t fully understand the possible (more like probable) takala caused by owning a TV and the nisayon it is to only watch clean programs. She, as well as men who give in to their negiyos, will argue that it is OK to have as long as you only watch kosher shows. Furthermore, they have a more meikel view of what is called a “kosher” show.
WIY: I am humbled by your amazingly strong character and your urge to do what’s right. B”H, I come from a very frum home where TV and movies are assur, so my nisayon is probably not as great as yours (although my yetzer hara doesn’t either sleep), but I truly admire your strength. Keep it up, and hatzlacha rabba.
” no movie running in the theatures in the last 20 years have been kosher.”
Ushpizin wasn’t kosher? Why not??? I found it quite inspiring.
Aries,
“Observeanteen, may I suggest to you that you try filtering. You do not have to read nor get involved in every thread. If you do not agree or feel it is not a topic appropriate for your age or hashkofah, don’t go there, or don’t get involved. Personally I choose to skip over many topics because either it is not something I am knowledgeable about, or I don’t want to get in middle of the arguement.
Posted 2 weeks ago #”
Well, I think you can use your advice.
Another inspiring movie that is perfectly kosher is “Lonely Man of Faith”, a biography of Rabbi Joseph Soloveitchik z’tz’l. (His essay of the same name is also worth learning.)
WIY- good job! Thank you keep it Up! may you continue helping us all Grow!
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.