January 3, 2013 8:09 am at 8:09 am #607683sm29Participant
A friend of mine recently informed me of something very important for couples. You know how things sometimes go fast when you find the one. You date, marry and some time later have a child(if you are able to). She mentioned that what’s really important for couples, preferably before you have children, is to work on learning how to work things out. – Before children, the couple has some flexibility with their time, and so they can spend an evening talking, and learning about each other. Later, it’s harder to do so, and you have to make a good effort to find time to talk. Not making time, can be harmful because feelings are held in and Not resolved, leading to fighting etc. This is where counseling might be helpful. She mentioned that if you don’t want your alone time to be spent resolving things(like you both finally go out and it’s spent talking about issues), it would be good to do it in a therapy session where you resolve things there. A strong marriage is essential for both the couple and their childrenJanuary 3, 2013 1:02 pm at 1:02 pm #918588hershiMember
Since a child may be iy”H born as soon as 9 months after the wedding, the couple can bond during their shana rishona.
Shana rishona is taught as being important to chasanim and kallahs.January 3, 2013 2:03 pm at 2:03 pm #918589
There is a misconception among the frum community that once you are married you can stop dating. This is the issue! Kids or no kids, it is important for couples to just go out. I make it a point to go out with my wife once a week; even if it is just for coffee. A lot of issues and stress can easily be overcome by just connecting on an adult level, and not just around kids.January 3, 2013 3:00 pm at 3:00 pm #918590MorahRachMember
I completely agree! ( with the first part, not so much the therapy although it does work for some!)
It is so important to maintain good communication with your spouse as it is so much harder to work on your relationship once you have kids. BH we were blessed with a beautiful baby this passed summer, and it does take up most of our time/conversation! We resolve to just stay up very late so we have time to spend together and to talk about our days and everything else under the sun. My husband and I did date longer than I’m sure most people on this site, so we were lucky to have a lot of time together Doing fun things, now I’m lucky to have an amazing mother who ( when I feel like we need a date night) will come and watch our baby so we can grab dinner together.
Don’t feel like your relationship is in a bad place if your kids take over your life though. That’s what happens, it’s not just about you anymore. And that’s beautiful!January 3, 2013 3:02 pm at 3:02 pm #918591WIYMember
I don’t know your age and how many kids you have, however I can only imagine that a young couple would have a night a week to go out. Once the family grows and factoring in simchos if you live in a large frum community, it will be impossible to free up one night a week consistently that you can both go out.January 3, 2013 4:03 pm at 4:03 pm #918592
WIY: I do have a large family and as I explained it is an effort one must make. Look at it this way, you either spend money on a babysitter and coffee to go out for an hour or two, or you will be spending it on therapists or c’v divorce lawyers. It’s not the difficult to see which the cheaper and preferred option is. People make excuses why they cannot go out. As you explained, you have simchas to attend. How often do you attend simchas? If you can find time and money to go out for family or friends simchas, you can go out with your spouse. Just as an FYI, if we do have a simcha, we usually leave after dinner and some dancing and spend some time talking in the car or sitting in Starbucks for a half an hour.January 3, 2013 4:36 pm at 4:36 pm #918593The little I knowParticipant
There are so many deficiencies in today’s chosson and kallah classes it is scary. Many teachers just cover halachos, which is also problematic because it rarely accounts for differing opinions. It is the exception when the chosson and kallah teacher communicate to insure they are on the same page. Some teachers present mythical material. Unfortunately, there is no regulation or oversight. I was recently introduced to a few yungerleit in Brooklyn who are working class people looking to earn an extra dollar, and have been volunteering themselves as chosson teachers. Their qualification – still being married after 5 years.
Also missing, to our deep chagrin, is the guidance on how to manage the relationship. How should a couple fight/disagree? How should they manage their relationships with respective in-laws? Fundamental communication skills need to be taught. In the words of one of the recently departed gedolim, “Learn to be mevater on everything.”
The role of religion and spirituality is rarely addressed, though differences here are apt to become problems. When dating, prospective chassanim and kallos present themselves in their best light. But the real self is reserved for exposure later. Life is full of speed bumps. If the skills to handle these are there, they become just markers that were passed by without event. If not, the weak relationship can be severely rattled.
Next is the matter of where to turn when there are issues. Many involve their parents. This is rarely effective. Others look to other outsiders, extended family, rabbonim, etc. This is also of limited value. Most are untrained, and have no idea what suggestions are actually harmful to the marriage.
Spending couple time alone is great. But without having learned basic skills, from parental models or by instruction, this could just provide another arena to play out the problems that are apt to arise out of poor preparation for marriage.January 3, 2013 7:25 pm at 7:25 pm #918594greatestMember
TLIK: They are correct in not going through “differing opinions”. They are teaching halacha lmaaisa on what to do. They aren’t giving a gemorah shiur. And they correctly only cite the one way in which we rule on the matter. Anything else breeds confusion. Halacha on what to do is not a smorgesboard of differing opinions each Baal Haboss can choose from.January 3, 2013 8:24 pm at 8:24 pm #918595WolfishMusingsParticipant
I don’t know your age and how many kids you have, however I can only imagine that a young couple would have a night a week to go out
It doesn’t have to be once a week. Once every other week or even once a month is fine… as long as you make sure to have some time together.
The WolfJanuary 3, 2013 11:36 pm at 11:36 pm #918596
I second this. What me and my wife do is to go out for a walk once in a while – often on shabbos, for at least an hour or so. When we go for a walk together we talk a lot more than we usually do in the house – where we’re usually just doing our own things.January 4, 2013 3:52 pm at 3:52 pm #918597lesschumrasParticipant
Greatest, you’re assuming that the teacher isn’t giving over a minority machmir or kulah opinion.January 4, 2013 3:58 pm at 3:58 pm #918598greatestMember
I simply noted the fallacy of the point made in the comment I responded to.January 6, 2013 9:34 pm at 9:34 pm #918599147Participant
Just as an FYI, if we do have a simcha, we usually leave after dinner and some dancing and spend some time talking in the car or sitting in Starbucks for a half an hour.
I hope you have a dispensation to only wait 1 hour from meat to milk [as per the ReMo is Yoreh De’ah] if this enhances your Sholom Bayis, so that you can have a dairy coffee at Starbucks, or if this late at nite, Vanilla Bean, assuming there was meat at the Simcha.January 9, 2013 12:09 am at 12:09 am #918600sm29Participant
Deffinately excellent ideas for quality time and communication. Even just once a week, going somewhere is good.January 9, 2013 4:16 am at 4:16 am #918601locaMember
Why do couples have to go out to have a date night? As lovely as it sounds.. doesn’t seem practical. Id rather sit in my sweatshirt and fuzzy slippers and play taboo. Or eat smores and talk on our rocking chairs on the front porch. Still requires effort to keep up, but more do-able.January 9, 2013 11:03 am at 11:03 am #918602lesschumrasParticipant
To achieve true Sholom bayis, treat mother in laws with respect but draw clear boundaries regarding their behaviour.January 9, 2013 1:52 pm at 1:52 pm #918603
147: There is this crazy invention called Soy Milk, or black coffee (that means coffee without milk..crazy…I know) so no waiting is required. Check it out:)
loca: Your right, there is no need to go out, but when you have older kids it’s nice to have “alone” time without people interfering with questions, concerns etc. And yes, we tried “Please do not disturb”, but that did not seem to work 🙂
The purpose of the date is not just about quality time together, but an excuse to NOT sit in sweatpants, but put some effort into the other person; which I feel some of us forgot how to do over the years. But hey, to each their own. What works for me, might not work for you. It’s up to you to find your sweet spot or you can always listen to the OP and find a counseler to help out your marriage. I prefer my way, some prefer counseling.January 9, 2013 2:34 pm at 2:34 pm #918604The little I knowParticipant
Some people have allowed their marriages to deteriorate, or were the victims of enough outside interference that they cannot muster the basic skills to make their marriage work. Many entered the picture poorly prepared. Either way, the need for a counselor might be valid. Those who can manage the speed bumps of marriage without outside help should certainly save the money and time, and invest in their home, not the unneeded professional.
One reason to have a date outside the home was to be away from the distractions of the home. Among them was the wonderful, but majorly disruptive telephone. Now with cell phones that no one leaves home without one, couples need to cherish each other enough to shut theirs.January 9, 2013 6:09 pm at 6:09 pm #918605WolfishMusingsParticipant
Why do couples have to go out to have a date night? As lovely as it sounds.. doesn’t seem practical. Id rather sit in my sweatshirt and fuzzy slippers and play taboo. Or eat smores and talk on our rocking chairs on the front porch. Still requires effort to keep up, but more do-able.
If that works for you and your marriage, then fine — that’s what you should do. For others, however, they might want to get out of the house.
The WolfJanuary 10, 2013 2:28 am at 2:28 am #918606mewhoParticipant
leschumras—-so very true.
boundaries are 100% necessary or the marriage is doomed
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