July 5, 2015 3:31 pm at 3:31 pm #615964
i have a youtube downloader to mp3 and wanted to know if its assur to download songs that are made into youtube videos so that you don’t have to buy them. My thought on this if a singer wants people to buy their singles they shouldn’t put them on youtube! Everyone has smartphones nowadays (almost everyone) and can get on the internet whenever they want so if they want to listen to the song they can just go to youtube and listen! If anyone has a take on this please share itJuly 5, 2015 5:46 pm at 5:46 pm #1090619
Copying for personal use is legal under U.S., Canadian and British law.
In the United States the AHRA (Audio Home Recording Act Codified in Section 10, 1992) prohibits action against consumers making noncommercial recordings of music. In Canada, private copying for personal use has been expressly permitted by statute. In the United Kingdom and many other Commonwealth countries, a similar notion of fair dealing was established by the courts or through legislation.July 5, 2015 7:04 pm at 7:04 pm #1090620catch yourselfParticipant
Thanks, Joseph. That’s very informative.
How does this apply to copying things for use in my classroom? This is not personal use per se, but it’s not commercial, either.July 5, 2015 7:05 pm at 7:05 pm #1090621catch yourselfParticipant
Thanks, Joseph. That’s very informative.
How does this apply to copying things for use in my classroom [which is in the U.S.]? This is not personal use per se, but it’s not commercial, either.July 5, 2015 7:29 pm at 7:29 pm #1090622
United States Copyright Law provides important exceptions to the rights of copyright holders that are specifically aimed at nonprofit educational institutions and libraries. Three provisions of the copyright statute are of particular importance to teachers and researchers:
A provision that grants teachers and students the right to publicly display and perform copyrighted works in the classroom (Section 110 of U.S. Copyright Law).
A provision that establishes special exemptions for the reproduction of copyrighted works by libraries and archives (Section 108 of US Copyright Law).
A provision that codifies the doctrine of “fair use,” which allows limited copying of copyrighted works without the permission of the owner for certain teaching and research purposes (Section 107 of US Copyright Law).July 5, 2015 9:37 pm at 9:37 pm #1090623
Thanks Joseph, but i was looking for a answer to whether or not it would be allowed halachikally (according to the torah) to download a song from youtube to mp3July 5, 2015 10:20 pm at 10:20 pm #1090624
Yes. The halachic issue is hasagas gvul. If downloading it from youtube will not cause you to not purchase a song that you would have otherwise purchased if you didn’t download it, it is permissible to download.
(I’ve seen others say that the halachic issue with copying is dina d’malchusa. Even if they’re correct (which is a machlokes), there’s no problem of dina d’malchusa in the above situations where the law exempts fair use copying, as previously described.)July 6, 2015 3:27 am at 3:27 am #1090625ShloimydrMember
when a person composes a video and puts it onto youtube, he is fully aware that he is going public & taking a chance of people downloading it. Thus by realizing this he is accepting the risk of it happening & telling everyone that he is willing to go onto youtube-for the advertisement of his video-even if people will download it & use it without buying his CD.
BOTTOM LINE: it is fully permitted but you may double check with your local orthodox rabbi to be on the safe side
to the singer or Entertainer etc…: if you are afraid you will lose money by less people buying your CD’s etc.. then don’t download yourself onto youtube. cause millions of people go there everyday. you have the free will to decide the pros & cons if its worth it to put yourself onto youtube or not
Hatzlacha to everyoneJuly 6, 2015 4:07 am at 4:07 am #1090626–Participant
there’s no problem of dina d’malchusa in the above situations where the law exempts fair use copying, as previously described.
Fair use is to help determine if what you are doing with the work is primarily using or primarily copying. All of this is irrelevant if you don’t have the rights to use it.July 6, 2015 5:46 am at 5:46 am #1090627–Participant
when a person composes a video and puts it onto youtube, he is fully aware that he is going public & taking a chance of people downloading it.
When a person sells a CD, he is fully aware that he is taking a chance of someone copying it.
When a store sells a product, they are fully aware that they are taking a chance of someone shoplifting.July 6, 2015 9:44 am at 9:44 am #1090628
Fair Use is specifically designed to permit copying by those without the rights to the copyright. See my first two comments above describing some examples of Fair Use.July 6, 2015 1:40 pm at 1:40 pm #1090629
Joseph is being machshil people into doing something which is immoral and illegal (both l’halachah and l’havdil in secular law), and he is misrepresenting “Fair Use”.
Making Physical Copies of Sound Recordings
o The copy is made from an authorized original CD that you legitimately own, andJuly 6, 2015 1:48 pm at 1:48 pm #1090630
RIAA is an advocacy group for secular music copyright holders that is notorious for routinely over-representing and mis-representing copyright law. They are not an impartial group.
U.S. law is exactly as I represented it above. And the halacha as I represented it is as I was given a psak.July 6, 2015 3:59 pm at 3:59 pm #1090631ShloimydrMember
that is what we are talking about ONLY FOR PERSONAL USE. ever heard of copyright? I think we all know what that means & its written on every product and item in the world….July 6, 2015 4:09 pm at 4:09 pm #1090632
Joseph, and you’re not nogeia b’dovor? Stop being silly, and stop stealing and causing a chillul Hashem by bragging about it.
Shloimy, personal use means if you bought it. It is illegal to copy music if you didn’t pay for it, with some exceptions, but not just downloading or otherwise copying for your personal enjoyment.July 6, 2015 8:50 pm at 8:50 pm #1090633
Geez I wasn’t expecting this to get so complicated!July 6, 2015 9:07 pm at 9:07 pm #1090634
DY – What do you mean nogeia b’dovor? Is everyone in the world nogeia b’dovor since they listen to music so therefore no one can comment? I have nothing to do with the music industry or its products.
The one’s who are nogeia b’dovor are the music industry who misrepresent both the law and halacha into making everyone think that which is muttar is assur by putting claims on their products that do not represent the true halacha.
I don’t hear you complaining about the nogeia b’dovor aspect regarding CDs that print a notice stating that one can’t even make a personal copy for the car.
The reality is that the issue at most is hasgas gvul, not stealing as the nogeia b’dovor music industry falsely claims. If you wouldn’t have bought it there’s no issur. I can refer you to a recognized Rov if you think I came up with this chiddush on my own.July 6, 2015 9:59 pm at 9:59 pm #1090635
Rav Moshe clearly says it’s geneiva, and your claim that the RIAA saying it’s illegal can’t be believed because they are biased is ironic coming from someone who is equally biased. The RIAA, incidentally, is not my only source, but their quote was the clearest language I found.
Why suddenly are you looking for kulas when you normally chastise others for that? ???? ???? ?? ???, that’s why.
Go drink cholov stav and with the money saved, pay the hard working music producers for the music you pilfered without paying.July 7, 2015 2:04 am at 2:04 am #1090637
There’s no reason to think Rav Moshe was using a euphemism, unless you want justify your stealing.
I wasn’t aware that R’ Moshe even addressed music (directly). Cite please.
Suddenly, someone following a kula is following a legitimate psak? When it comes to CY, they’re not, but for geneivah, you’re okay with it?
No shaychus timers. Most poskim don’t follow R’ Moshe on that, but most poskim do hold you’re a ganav if you copy music you didn’t pay for.
Tell me, where should one nmbe machmir first, on the d’rabbanan of CY or amira l’akum, or the d’Oraisa of gezeilah which we focus on by N’eilah on Yom Kippur? Your priorities are messed up.
You also need a kapparah for the chillul Hashem you keep making every time you post your love of dishonesty on this very public website.
Not that it makes one bit of a difference, but I have no connection, nor do any friends or relatives, with the recording industry.July 7, 2015 1:22 pm at 1:22 pm #1090641
Such a long response, and all you can do is create a straw man to argue with without addressing my points? You also keep on contradicting yourself.
With each post, you make another chillul Hashem. You should stop.
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