April 1, 2012 7:27 pm at 7:27 pm #602745
Can anyone tell me a little bit about Stern College (YU for girls) I heard their are many different types of girls so people can easily pick who they want to be friends with the more yeshivish or modern girls. My neighbor asked me about it for her daughter whose a Bais yakkov girl who very open minded what do you think?April 1, 2012 7:35 pm at 7:35 pm #866410
I have heard like you. I have heard that there are dangers if she makes the wrong friends but that there is definitely a very good group of Yeshivish/Bais Yaakov girls there, who, if she is friends with them, it will not drag her down and she can even grow there.April 1, 2012 7:39 pm at 7:39 pm #866411aproudbygParticipant
A bais yaakov girl who is open minded? Isnt that a oxymoron?April 1, 2012 7:47 pm at 7:47 pm #866412popa_bar_abbaParticipant
a Bais yakkov girl who very open minded
I like to think I’m open minded.
I like to think you can be open minded and yeshivish, open minded and chassidish, open minded and catholic, open minded and mormon, open minded and politically conservative, etc.
Do you mean to say that this girl is feeling disconnected from her BY past? Why would you use the term “open-minded” as a synonym for that?April 1, 2012 8:00 pm at 8:00 pm #866413
I went there and had a pretty good experience. There are all sorts of girls there for sure, it is a very modem scene though which at the time was ok for me. The majority of events well I shouldn’t say that, but many are mixed with YU boy and stern girls. They recently stopped havin a shared Purim chagiga now it is on separate campuses. Again for me it was fine I loved the classes, they are a bit small though but teachers were great. On the job going to a school like YU or stern fares better then let’s say touro or queens college. I did find however after being in yeshivas my whole life that i just wanted to do college and having to fulfill so many Jewish requirements was very time consuming. I also had to take a Gemara class which I’m sure many bais yaakov girls parents will not be on board with. Any other questions?April 1, 2012 8:21 pm at 8:21 pm #866414
MorahRuach: That’s very misleading. The Purim Chagigah was never mixed. They were always in separate buildings a block away from each other and security guards wouldn’t let boys into the girls building and vice versa.April 1, 2012 8:37 pm at 8:37 pm #866415
The actual dancing was in separate places but 2 years in a row all my girl Friends and myself went into the boys party and there was Nosh set up for everyone to take. Me and my roommate were dating two YU boys I remember it like it was yesterday. We’re u in stern with me? Did u go there for 4 years as well?April 1, 2012 8:43 pm at 8:43 pm #866416
Now one in the heights and one is in midtown. I’m not trying to say that is such a bad thing there are many modern people there but it’s not for everyone .April 1, 2012 8:47 pm at 8:47 pm #866417
That’s true. Girls were allowed to get food in the cafateria which was near the gym where the guys were. They weren’t allowed in the gym though. Guys were allowed nowhere near the girls party.April 1, 2012 8:57 pm at 8:57 pm #866418
Yeah they were more strict about the guys going to/near the girls party. I was not trying to knock YU or stern I did very well there. Happens to be a great school.April 1, 2012 10:49 pm at 10:49 pm #866422
so when I said open-minded I meant shes more accepting of different types shes not so yeshivish but still shes a Bais Yakkov girl/type, I dont really know how to explain it any other way. MorahRach shes not the type of girl to sneak into YU boys. So you would say it would be a good growing expirence for her? also my neighbor was saying that it may be harder for shiduchim if she goes to Stern what do you think?April 2, 2012 12:09 am at 12:09 am #866423
We didn’t sneak in! It was open it was not like that at all but I hear what you are saying. So as far as shidduchim go, I had no problems bH but I guess it depends on what type of boy she will be looking for. I don’t think it is as influential? As some may think. In the sense that if she grew up a relaxed but good bais yaakov girl she will make good friends and not follow some of the less religious trends. A lot of girls end up deciding to move to the upper west side, wear pants, befriend boys, just become very modern but you also have girls who do not change drastically and instead grow exponentially. I think it’s a great school with a higher standard of education that if anything should look great for shidduchim.April 2, 2012 12:28 am at 12:28 am #866424
Thanks so much that really helped.April 2, 2012 12:36 am at 12:36 am #866425
Glad I could help!!April 2, 2012 4:16 am at 4:16 am #866426blackhatwannabeParticipant
In Stern, the girls are all Jewish but not necessarily so frum. There is a wide frum range, but it is much better then a secular college with plenty of goyim walking around, especially men.April 2, 2012 4:37 am at 4:37 am #866427Loyal JewMember
Decades of gedolim have expressed themselves about YU in one word, “assur,” or in three words, “against the Torah.” There’s a shidduch crisis on, isn’t there?April 2, 2012 4:37 am at 4:37 am #866428Think firstMember
Just warn her that she will hear, see, and feel hashkafos very unlike her own and she should be mindful of that.April 2, 2012 9:31 am at 9:31 am #866429aproudbygParticipant
But also keep in mind that where ever she goes there will be challenges, wether the same or different! Life has tests, at every turn!April 2, 2012 11:55 am at 11:55 am #866430
Decades of gedolim have expressed themselves about YU in one word, “assur,” or in three words, “against the Torah.”
Rav Nissim Alpert was a Maggid Shiur there for over 20 years with the blessing of Rav MosheApril 2, 2012 1:15 pm at 1:15 pm #866431Loyal JewMember
Zahavasdad, spot heterim were probably given to several rabonim to teach in YU. But the question here is about a family that is thinking about Stern College for their BY daughter. The implications for the girl are severe and they will affect the rest of the family too. BY’s chinuch might even be questioned. For what gain?April 2, 2012 1:45 pm at 1:45 pm #866432RSRHMember
“BY’s chinuch might even be questioned”
That seems like a reasonable gain. 🙂April 2, 2012 1:58 pm at 1:58 pm #866433
The implications for the girl are severe and they will affect the rest of the family too. BY’s chinuch might even be questioned. For what gain?
What SEVERE implications?
You quote that is assur, yet Rav Nissim Alpert was a Rav HaMachshiur there. If Stern was treif (Or any part of YU for that matter) would he have been a Rav HaMachshiur there.
The only severe implications is the tuition cost , I think its like $31,000 a year room and boardApril 2, 2012 2:03 pm at 2:03 pm #866434OneOfManyParticipant
Loyal Jew = Joseph
Have no idea why the mods don’t care, but don’t bother arguing with him.April 2, 2012 3:10 pm at 3:10 pm #866435
Sometimes I am not aruging with the poster, but making my points to lurkers who never post and just read.April 2, 2012 3:35 pm at 3:35 pm #866436
Everybody gets exposed to different hashkafos at some point, it typically starts at college age. If your daughter is old enough to get married, pursue a degree and get a job then she’s old enough to sort through what her personal hashkafos are. Outside influences can strengthen or weaken them, but that’s going to happen no matter where she goes to college. You can only raise her, at some point you have to hope you did your best and let her be a grown up. In Stern she will still be immersed in learning Torah, that’s not the case in fully secular colleges. Another benefit of Stern / YU is that it is a great way to meet a quality Jewish spouse without having to suffer severely from the shiduch crisis. I know many, many couples that met through YU and have great families. I hear too many stories of girls sitting around waiting to be set up on dates and coming up empty, why not give these girls an opportunity to meet a nice Jewish guy at college functions? In the shiduch crisis world the numbers are depressingly skewed because the shadchanim hold all the cards and cater to the guys, in YU world your daughter will not only shiduch date, they will have the extra opportunity to connect with hundreds of single Jewish guys who are making time for Torah and will be able to support themselves.April 2, 2012 4:22 pm at 4:22 pm #866437stuckMember
Some people would much prefer a non-YU shidduch.April 2, 2012 4:25 pm at 4:25 pm #866438
Nope it’s 42,000 a year. I have the loans to prove it!April 2, 2012 5:09 pm at 5:09 pm #866439
A YU shiduch is a big wide range of types. I understand that some families might prefer a Lakewood shiduch over a YU shiduch, but it sounds like the options in that market have become very limited for a large number of girls. Especially ones that cannot support a guy financially. Since that is the case, why not expand the options to include Jewish men that have good qualities, are frum, are available and don’t expect a pay check in order to marry into your family.April 2, 2012 5:11 pm at 5:11 pm #866440
firstly, this will define who she marries, whether you like it or not. no bochur from any top yeshiva is going to look at this girl.
secondly, the ruach of the place may be too much for her to handle. im not bashing (this time), im just saying that the change in societal norms from by to sterns can be overwhelming and she might get swept up in things she didnt count on. (or did count on.)April 2, 2012 5:35 pm at 5:35 pm #866441
The price is the one thing you will have to consider. If it is $42,000 a year thats over $160,000 for 4 years.
Frankly I am of the opinion that , that is too much money and the degree becomes too expesive for the amount of money you will make
(Note I went to a secular college that now costs $5500 a year)April 2, 2012 8:01 pm at 8:01 pm #866442
Agree with zahavasdad. I bH have a job but am not making anything close to allowing me to pay off my loans anytime soon. Honestly though the majority of my friends and my husbands friends parents paid their tuition or loans, I have to pay mine so my case is not that of everyone. If I could do it again I would choose less debt.
On a different note.. I have a few friends from stern who went on to marry Lakewood boys who are currently living in Lakewood and had no issues with shidduch. The majority of girls I know/knew were not looking for that type of boy, and we’re looking for someone who was working at least part time. I know of girls who went to touro who marry lakewood type, or shor yoshuv boys I find that most stern girls like the YU type. (not me)April 2, 2012 8:18 pm at 8:18 pm #866443OneOfManyParticipant
zahavasdad: Even Toi doesn’t seem to agree with Joseph – I doubt anyone else does. 😛
I actually considered Stern very briefly, but nixed it because of the money. (Mainly. Hashkafic whateverness too, a little bit.) Pashut ridiculous. Might as well just apply to Harvard.April 2, 2012 8:52 pm at 8:52 pm #866444
Toi: I don’t think that’s true. Plenty of Stern girls find good Lakewood guys. And the top YU guys are just as good as the top guys from any other Yeshivah anyway.April 2, 2012 9:09 pm at 9:09 pm #866445
The reality is if you go to a City School especially Brooklyn or Queens, and LIVE AT HOME. Basically you go to the school for classes and then go home
And you wont have the debt. Most people who go to Stern or YU dorm (YU its fairly difficult to commute)April 2, 2012 9:12 pm at 9:12 pm #866446popa_bar_abbaParticipant
And the top YU guys are just as good as the top guys from any other Yeshivah anyway.
My totty could beat up your totty.April 2, 2012 9:23 pm at 9:23 pm #866447
It definitely prepares you for independent life more than a school where you are living at home. This is just my opinion.April 2, 2012 9:26 pm at 9:26 pm #866448ItcheSrulikMember
zdad: YU is a hard commute but Stern would take me 40 minutes by mass transit from flatbush. (I once worked a 5 minute walk from Stern and my commute was 35 minutes)April 3, 2012 3:35 am at 3:35 am #866449
Sam2- the top yu guys are not as good as the top bochurim from the top yeshivos. i dont consider myself the best at all and ive hanndled with the top guys in kby and although they might know 4 masechtos by heart, their iyun is lacking. vi’oid- i didnt say they wouldnt find shidduchim, they will, but it wont be the best guys, itll be the shaar yoshuv (read: off the beaten path, not worse) guys.
I agree with loyal jews opinion that the yu that was isnt what is, and that you cant bring a rayye from years gone by. i dont think R shimon shkop would agree with an alternate lifestyle club. his point about BY is ridiculous.April 3, 2012 4:24 am at 4:24 am #866450mustangriderMember
ok so here is my question: which is prefferable, that a BY girl should go to a secular city college with goyim (brooklyn college
), or to an all Jewish college with different hashkafos(stern)?April 3, 2012 4:27 am at 4:27 am #866451
Toi: YU never had a gay club. Ever. That’s pure Motzi Shem Ra. And I’ve met guys from YU who will without a doubt be some of the next generation’s leading Poskim and Talmidei Chachamim. I don’t think anyone can claim that any Iyun is lacking from the top guys in Rav Rosensweig’s shiur.April 3, 2012 4:27 am at 4:27 am #866452stuckMember
At a goyish college she is less likely to mistake the unjewish stuff that goes on as being kosher. At a “Jewish” college, she is more likely to mistake the treif stuff that goes on as being kosher.April 3, 2012 12:06 pm at 12:06 pm #866453
Every yeshiva has guys that are as you say off the beaten path. Of all the friends of my husband of my friends husbands that I know, I would way prefer shor yoshuv guys for the most part. They actually had a taste of the real world and in a sense chose this great path. Of the men j have met who are learning full time in Lakewood and I am not trying to say that isn’t a good thing, but they cannot carry an educated discussion or argument the way others can. I also find that since they are 100% supported as opposed to just helped, they are very entitled. My friend and her husband have a cleaning lady once a week my friend gets her sheital done every other, they shop all the time as do their friends who are on ther parents dollar. I don’t know any shor yoshuv families like that and I know many.April 3, 2012 3:28 pm at 3:28 pm #866454
sam2- i dont know the particulars, but the head of the group used to to daven in my shul. the very fact that the notion is possible speaks volumes more than its actual existence could.April 3, 2012 3:33 pm at 3:33 pm #866455
morarach- maybe their values and yours are at odds. go look at who the daughters of the current RYs and magidei shiurim are married to, happily, i may add. i was considering these bochurim the top, the cream of the crop, and if you think the shaar yoshuv boys are, than there is no conversation here. derech agav, two of my former best friends learnt in shaar yoshuv, and while certain people may need it, it is in no way doimeh to the top litvishe yeshivos. my friend in second year was in the top shiur there and said it didnt compare to our first year shiur- and this guy can learn.April 3, 2012 3:46 pm at 3:46 pm #866456
These are serious questions, I hope somebody can give me perspective to understand this better. I keep reading about “top Lakewood” guys on various threads. How many guys learn in Lakewood? How many are single? How many are “top guys”? What qualifies them as “top guys”, is it middos, family, personality, ability to focus, hat size? What qualities do they look for in a wife? Do they only marry girls from wealthy families? How realistic is it for an average girl, from an average family to hope for a “top guy”?April 3, 2012 6:40 pm at 6:40 pm #866457DerechMember
Sam2: YU’s Einstein and Cardozo schools have gay clubs.April 3, 2012 6:42 pm at 6:42 pm #866458
Agree to disagree.April 3, 2012 7:58 pm at 7:58 pm #866459HaKatanParticipant
“stuck” made the most important point so far, in my opinion.
A trusted Rav should be consulted. Pashut pshat, generally speaking, however, is that it’s better to go to a non-Jewish institution where your hashkafos will not be under attack, rather than go to a Jewish institution (or anywhere else, like a broadway show) which will negatively affect your ruchnius.
I am not saying that YU/Stern will certainly negatively affect you spiritually, as the Stern graduates that I know already came from MO backgrounds, but given the objective reports from graduates of that institution, it’s certainly worth looking into.
Regarding the “shidduch crisis”, I could name you both boys and girls who I would have thought that they’d have been married years ago because they have it *all*, and others who I thought would have a hard time and yet married excellent spouses in good time, B”H. It’s all biydei shamayim. Mixing at parties, lichaora kineged halacha, is not the solution, even if it does undoubtedly create some matches.
As for Lakewood, while there *may* be some who are fully supported and more, this definitely is not universal, and it is motzi shem ra on Lakewood to imply that every Lakewood guy is this way. I do not know the exact numbers, of course, but I do know it is far from universal.
(Finally, I find it amusing but sad that wearing pants and having boyfriends is considered more MO, and, for some, an expected outcome of going to Stern, as one poster wrote. These behaviors are simply assur and no amount of “modernity” can be mattir that nor the other issurim that are given a pass due to “modernity”.)April 3, 2012 8:10 pm at 8:10 pm #866460
I don’t think anyone said that behavior should be given a pass. Not sure if you were talking about my posts but I didn’t say it was a good thing that so many girls start wearing pants and “hanging” out with boys. My point was the opposite. But not all the girls come from very MO background which still are good people and frum people. There is such a negative attitude hear towards MO it makes me really sad.April 3, 2012 8:31 pm at 8:31 pm #866461
Sam2: YU’s Einstein and Cardozo schools have gay clubs.
They are not the same campus and fairly far apart. Einstein is in the Bronx and Cardozo is in Union Square
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