YWN ads and satmar for Cuomo

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  • #614130
    kfb
    Participant

    Can someone explain to me why YWN has ads for Gov Cuomo and why the Satmar rebbe met with him and endorses him? I just don’t understand how frum people can endorse someone who is pro

    gay marriage and pro killing babies(abortion). Don’t we have a moral obligation if not halachic obligation to stop this? I’m not looking for arguments between dems and republicans, I just want to know their reasonining.

    #1039654
    bp yidd
    Participant

    Which satmar ?

    #1039655
    kfb
    Participant

    The one in Williamsburg

    #1039656
    eric55
    Participant

    On why YWN runs cuomo’s is because legally they have to. as to why satmer supports him same question why does lakewood support cory booker the low life piece of garbage basically these people sell their souls and their morals for some promised favors in return your right its truly shameful. the sadist part is all who follows these endorsements without using their own heads

    #1039657
    Joseph
    Participant

    Cuomo is a shoo-in for re-election. He will win. End of story. You can’t stop him. So you may as well as curry favor with him by supporting him and hoping he’ll support your needs later when he is still Governor. You need favors from governors so why burn bridges when it won’t change the outcome.

    #1039658
    Joseph
    Participant

    Eric: neither this nor any website has any legal obligation to run Coumo or anyone else’s ads. In fact they can choose to accept no political ads or even only accept political ads of politicians that they support. But why should they give up the free money when it won’t change the result anyways.

    #1039659
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    sadist or saddest? And how are they legally required to support a particular person?

    #1039661
    147
    Participant

    Support any & all Republicans simply to do in Obama.

    #1039662
    ivory
    Member

    Just because he’s a shoo-in doesnt mean its correct to flatter him if he’s an open supporter of gay rights etc. it’s a shame that Orthodox Jews openly endorse such a cabdidate

    #1039663
    TheGoq
    Participant

    What makes Senator Booker a low life piece of garbage eric? please be specific. Thank you.

    #1039664
    kfb
    Participant

    If they support cuomo does that mean they support gay marriage, abortion…

    #1039665
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    It’s not flattery. It’s bribery.

    #1039666
    bp yidd
    Participant

    We have a choice matter of fact is he’s probably gonna win whether we endorse him or not so we may as we’ll endorse him so he’ll help us out

    #1039667
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Ok, so everyone knows that homosexuality is a ?????. But as the Chayei Adam points out in the Hakdama Kolleles, the Torah only says that homosexuality is a ?????, not that a homosexual is a ????? and the same by every aveirah which is a ?????. Except by ga’avah where the Torah says ????? ?’ ?? ??? ??, meaning that ga’avah is so bad that the actual person is a ?????. So would people make as big of a deal if a candidate supported ga’avah?

    #1039668
    Sam2
    Participant

    kfb: An endorsement of a candidate does not mean a support of all of their policies. It means you think that, overall, they are the best candidate.

    And even though R’ Moshe held a Davar Pashut that abortions were murder, a majority of Achronim and contemporary Poskim held not so. It’s Assur, certainly, but calling it “killing babies” is Pashtus not so accurate.

    #1039669
    ari-free
    Participant

    We need to help Hashem by taking a stand for morality.

    #1039670
    ivory
    Member

    He (kavyuchel) doesn’t need our help. We need to prove our loyalty to Him by taking a stance against immorality. Some things are, believe it or not , more important than money.

    #1039671
    interjection
    Participant

    There are times when Halacha calls for an abortion. However if the law made abortion illegal, if the mothers life was at stake there’s no way to know if the law would allow her to abort. Just something to keep in mind.

    #1039672
    147
    Participant

    If the Satmar Rebbe had been a Talmid of Rav Avigdor Miller ZT’L, he would have emphatically done anything to deflect all votes from any pro-immoral candidate.

    #1039673
    kfb
    Participant

    Interjection- cuomo allowed abortion in NY whether it’s a threat to the mother or not. I love how that’s everyone’s argument for abortion. More babies are killed bc the mother doesn’t want them than being life threatening to the mother. Also which poskim hold abortions are allowed?

    #1039674
    Joseph
    Participant

    PAA: Mishkav zochor unlike ga’avah is a capital offense and as such obviously far more severe.

    interjection: The law can and should be that abortion is illegal with the exception of it being allowed if the mother’s life is in question. (Something the vast majority of pro-lifers support allowing.)

    #1039675
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    PAA: Mishkav zochor unlike ga’avah is a capital offense and as such obviously far more severe.

    But it’s less of an abomination.

    #1039676
    Sam2
    Participant

    kfb: No one holds they’re allowed L’chatchilah (though some are very Meikel as to what is considered B’dieved/Sha’as Hadchak).

    Lior: Not true. Most pro-lifers are Bible Belt Christians who hold that you cannot kill the fetus even to save the mother.

    #1039677
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    PAA: A capital offense is far more severe than an abomination.

    It may have a more severe punishment. But ga’ava is more abominable than homosexuality.

    #1039678
    Joseph
    Participant

    PAA: A capital offense is far more severe than an abomination.

    Sam: Virtually all legislative ban on abortion proposals by pro life legislators and advocates offer a complete exemption when the mother’s life is in question. In any event, we all ought be supporting legislation that bans abortion and provides an exemption for cases affecting the mother’s life.

    #1039679
    ari-free
    Participant

    It’s sad to think of the abortions of Jewish babies…

    #1039680
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    It’s sad to think of the abortions of any babies…

    #1039681
    TheGoq
    Participant

    Eric i see you have not responded don’t be a hit and runner a name caller who doesn’t say why they dislike the person they are slamming it is not honorable.

    #1039682
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    There was a case on Long Island where a pregnant jewish woman got into a car accident and was in a coma. The doctors advised to abort the baby in order to help the woman recover. The Husband agreed, but some Pro-lifers tried to get custody of the baby and prevent the abortion. They sued in court and lost because they didnt have standing and the baby was aborted, Sadly while the woman lived she has lived in a nursing home ever since.

    Tim Tebows mother was a missionary in the Phillipines I think and when she was pregnant with Tim Tebow, she got malaria or some other disase, The doctors told her to get an abortion and she refused and Tim Tebow was born health, they have gone on a crusade to ban all abortions even danger to the mother claiming there is no such thing since she was fine in the end and he was fine too.

    #1039683
    Sam2
    Participant

    Lior: Yes, and most proposed legislations also have exemptions for rape and incest (which, to be fair, some Poskim are relatively Meikil on).

    #1039684
    bp yidd
    Participant

    It sad to think of any innocent child getting killed

    #1039685
    yytz
    Participant

    Lior: But some poskim allow abortions for other reasons as well (even such as mamzerim, mental health, etc.) and such exemptions wouldn’t be allowed under pro-life legislation.

    I’m highly sympathetic to pro-life camp, but it seems problematic to think of implementing laws that outlaw the implementation of certain halachic opinions by recognized poskim. Ideally, shouldn’t people be legally able to abide the rulings of their Rav? Isn’t that why Rav Moshe himself said we should be pro-life?

    As far as toevah marriage is concerned, there’s no way to overturn it in the current climate, because the majority of NY state public approves of it. If we want to change it we have to change the population’s mind first, outside the elections process. Given this reality, it makes sense to approve candidates even we disagree with them on pretty fundamental things — we just have to decide what the most important issues (that is, practical issues with a change of being changed in teh near future) are to us, and vote or endorse accordingly.

    #1039686
    interjection
    Participant

    Allowing the government to dictate who can and can’t abort, takes your freedom to keep halacha away from you.The only people who have what to lose with the law being pro-life are the upstanding people who would never risk their lives going to some shady illegal abort clinic, even if halacha would want them to abort. Those whom you would like to prevent from aborting are going to find dangerous ways to do so if there is no other option.

    #1039688
    charliehall
    Participant

    “However if the law made abortion illegal”

    To be fair, Astorino has stated publicly that he will not seek changes to New York’s abortion law, which was enacted in 1970 by a Republican legislature and signed by a Republican governor and made almost all abortions legal.

    ” as such obviously far more severe.”

    Chazal say that cheating in business is a worse sin than sexual sins, as you can atone for a sexual sin but you can never atone for cheating lots of customers. The Torah calls both male-male sex and cheating in business a toeiva.

    “Most pro-lifers are Bible Belt Christians who hold that you cannot kill the fetus even to save the mother.”

    The evangelicals will generally accept an abortion to save the life of the mother. However, the Catholic church, which outnumbers the evangelicals worldwide by something like 10 to 1 or more, would require the mother to die. It has managed to make that the law in several Latin American countries and women are in fact dying as a result. (Plus, see my next comment.)

    Few evangelicals I’ve ever heard of, however, will allow abortions for some of the reasons that are mutared by sumerous poskim such as mental health or genetic defects.

    “Tim Tebows mother was a missionary in the Phillipines “

    The Republic of the Philippines is one of the countries where all abortions are illegal, even when the mother will die.

    I’m not sure why they needed missionaries in the Philippines — the country is one the most devoutly Christian countries in the world.

    #1039689
    BTGuy
    Participant

    Interesting question!

    On the one hand, Cuomo seems to be the only substantive politician around.

    On another hand, no matter what any politician says about gay marriage and abortion, none of them will work to reverse the current trend. Very few conservatives even, who are running will clearly state they will reverse those matters. If they do, they won’t get into office.

    Cuomo is not serving as Pope. He has to “represent” a constituency.

    A similar example for us would be, if we were, say, mayor of Stamford, Ct., would we ban putting X-mas trees/decorations in the downtown area in December.

    How much of our own political stewardship, if we were in office, could or should be a reflection of our own personal views versus the people we are elected to represent.

    The Cuomo’s have a fantastic record of working with the religious community, noteably when Mario stood up to multi million dollar advertisers and their lobbying interests to take down non-tsniusdik signs in Times Square, from what I remember.

    So I suspect that is the reason Satmar, who knows politicians have influence whether they are a mirror image of your values or not, whether you vote or not, and have decided to have a rapport with Andrew.

    #1039690
    Joseph
    Participant

    yytz: Those situations would be exempt under the proposed laws as rape and health. Mental health is under the health exemption.

    Do you support legalized polygamy in the U.S. under the basis that since certain customs (I.e. Teimani) halachicly permit it, it should also be permissible under secular law?

    Most Americans oppose toeiva marriage. It almost every affected State it has been unelected judges who have overturned the democratically elected legislatures ban on such farce “marriages”. Do you support a national referendum on outlawing sodomy “marriages”? That would reflect a true yardstick of the “public opinion” that you profess to believe in.

    Charlie: Sodomy is unquestionably a far more severe infraction than theft. One carries a penalty of stoning to death. The other carries a monetary penalty.

    #1039691
    Sam2
    Participant

    Lior: And yet you can do T’shuvah for Mishkav Zachor. You cannot for certain business practices.

    That aside, there are some polygamy cases making their way through the courts (I believe one case is a trio of women who want their “marriage” accepted). Frankly, I want to see the end of marriage as a state-recognized institution. It’s against the First Amendment anyway. Give free reign to anyone living together to legally/monetarily declare themselves a “household”/”unit” or whatever. Then let people who want to get “married” have marriage defined by their own terms. By us Orthodox Jews, that would mean only monogamous heterosexual marriages. By other people, let it be whatever they want it to be. It should be a meaningless legal term. The fact that we’ve given a religious institution legal meaning is what is causing all of these problems anyway.

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