YWN censoring standards
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- This topic has 31 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 11 months ago by Yechi Hamelech.
March 30, 2021 9:22 am at 9:22 am #1961117
What exactly are YWN’s standards when moderating comments on articles? I understand that they have some sort of rules but I can’t understand why they’ll post comments with anti Rabbonim content. For example on a recent article about Rav Gershon Edelstein someone wrote a horrible comment against him and they posted it. Speaking against our gedolim is from the worst things a person could do so why do they post such things? It’s only helping these self hating Jews spread their anti Rabbonim sentiments.March 30, 2021 11:17 am at 11:17 am #1961234
That is not to mention all the lashon hara that goes on in the comments section. Is profanity the only thing that will get a comment blocked?!March 30, 2021 12:20 pm at 12:20 pm #1961236MindfulParticipant
Not everyone worships same “Gedolim” you worship. I know they don’t let all negative comments go through, I have had some of my comments not published, and others I was surprised were published. Sensorship is a very dangerous thing, it makes intellectually dishonest people comfortable, but it repels those who have any integrity.
The inconsistency is sometimes due to different moderators, not different standards. Many posters like to hide their disrespect for Torah or it’s leaders behind inuendo or double meanings that are not always clear to everyone in the same way. As dangerous as you see ‘sensorship’ to be, disparaging Torah and it’s leadership is infinitely more dangerous.March 30, 2021 12:57 pm at 12:57 pm #1961248
It seems to me that the “rules” are arbitrary and generally change from article to article. For example, there recently was an article about a certain gvir’s generosity to Torah mosdos, and only a very few comments were posted, all sugar-coated positive, but I personally know of at least four comments that were not so positive that did not make the cut, all with no profanity, no hate, no anger, etc. Possibly there was a surge in angry hateful comments for this article that caused the moderators to just shut down the comments completely, and only a few earlier positive, non-loshon-hora posts were allowed
The CR moderators have no access to the news page articles or comments.March 30, 2021 7:40 pm at 7:40 pm #1961275GadolhadorahParticipant
If I find myself prefacing a comment about a certain decision, psak, kol koreh or directive on a critical public policy issue etc. issued by a certain gadol with the phrase “with all due respect” I generally go back and edit or delete my comment. Its sometimes difficult to challenge a conclusion without indirectly questioning the values, criteria or balancing of pros/cons through which that outcome was reached. In some cases, there is no explanation given whatsoever as the basis for a gadol’s decision. In the latter case, its equally important to remember that you are dealing with daas torah and not drafting an appellate brief and challenging a decision based on the absence of “reasoned decision making”.March 30, 2021 7:41 pm at 7:41 pm #1961273MindfulParticipant
Do not throw into the same sentence disrespect for Torah and disrespect for those who YOU personally chose (or more likely where raised to believe) as a Torah leader. Some people think reform Rabbis are Torah leaders, some people think J for J are Torah leaders. As far as I am concerned anyone who trashed holocbo and Jewish values is disqualified from being a Torah leader, no matter what leadership position they Yarshened from their ancestors.March 30, 2021 8:24 pm at 8:24 pm #1961299
You speak about the Torah leaders who one personally worships. I think that’s where you are going wrong. There’s a difference between the overall acceptance of all of Torah Jewry that anyone other than Orthodox Rabbis are not Gedolim and differences of opinion within Orthodox Jewry. If one was brought us in the Yeshiva circles he most definitely should not be speaking against modern orthodox rabbanim (I’m obviously talking about main stream modern orthodoxy that follow halacha albeit with a hashkafa difference from regular orthodox rabbis. Rabbis who openly condone things which are against halacha are not what I’m referring to obviously because such people don’t fall under the category of Rabbanim. This does not permit speaking against them unless one does it within the guidelines of toeles outlined by the Chofetz Chaim ) even though they would not turn to them for guidance or a psak. My point is that just because you happen not to follow a specific rabbi does not mean that you can therefore openly speak in a disparaging way about him.March 30, 2021 8:33 pm at 8:33 pm #1961301YW Moderator-29 👨💻Moderator
Gadolhadorah- you brought tears of pride to my eyes 😉March 30, 2021 9:26 pm at 9:26 pm #1961302Reb EliezerParticipant
Pashut08701 by us they called them ra bonim, bad children.March 30, 2021 9:27 pm at 9:27 pm #1961303
The “CR moderator” placed a highlighted comment at the end of my last post in this thread that stated that CR Moderators have no access to articles and their comments. I’m not sure what that was supposed to mean. This discussion is about YWN article comments, not about CR posts. The fact that they are a different group of people seems irrelevant…
The comment, however, that they placed after Mindful’s remarks was quite informative, albeit not completely true, and very poorly written. While it may be true that the moderators as a group try to preserve the dignity of Torah and its leaders (and often fail miserably, as noted by other posters on this thread, even in situations where it is not a question of missing an ‘innuendo’), there are many other situations where censorship is obviously being practiced, and it has little or nothing to do with ‘leaders’ of Torah, and that is also done inconsistently. It seems that some “moderators” are bigger kanoim than others, and some feel they have a “mission”. When there is a difference of opinion as to whether someone is a “Torah leader” worthy of “protection” or not, then the opinion of the “moderator” usually wins. That’s what is known as “censorship”. And that is why YWN’s integrity is not very robust.March 30, 2021 9:31 pm at 9:31 pm #1961308YW Moderator-29 👨💻Moderator
Kanoim. That’s actually funny. Regarding the rest, you would need much more information than you have in order to form any legitimate opinions. Not that legitimacy is a prerequisite. And then there’s always the issue of sock puppeting on the non mod side.March 30, 2021 9:57 pm at 9:57 pm #1961311
>> When there is a difference of opinion as to whether someone is a “Torah leader” worthy of “protection” or not, then the opinion of the “moderator” usually win
There is a well-known method to check for discrimination – for example, mail out identical resumes putting WASP, Jewish, black male/female names with it and count responses. You can try using quotes with different names attached and see whether names or content matters for moderators.
(hope this will not get me banned!)
for example, I posted with some trepidation a dvar torah that Esther became Mordechai’s Rebbe first without attribution and it went through.March 30, 2021 9:58 pm at 9:58 pm #1961313
M-29: Sorry I should have put kanoim in quotes. And you’re right, legitimacy is not a prerequisite. Facts are facts, and opinions are opinions. If you have facts that negate opinions, let’s hear them, and for the sake of argument, let’s assume sufficient legitimacy…March 30, 2021 11:26 pm at 11:26 pm #1961319
“Censorship” is a proper Jewish/Torah value. We all ought to practice it on a personal level. And any publication that adheres to Jewish Law is required to practice censorship.
The idea that censorship is bad is a purely Western/gentile value.March 31, 2021 12:39 am at 12:39 am #1961404
Censorship is bad is only a recent Western value … Vatican was maintaining a list of permitted books, I believe, including Jewish ones. And Rabbeinu Yonah regretted censoring Rambam ..
Haskamot seems to be of better value – you can choose or value your sources based on references. Google page rank algorithm proved that it works.March 31, 2021 1:06 am at 1:06 am #1961410
Halacha requires that we censor what may be read, requires that we censor what books are or aren’t permitted (i.e. books of kefira) to read and requires that we censor what information (even if true) that we may share with others.March 31, 2021 8:42 am at 8:42 am #1961423
ujm, I do not disagree, but even that is not absolute and depends on circumstances and people involved. Information may be/must be shared for shidduch and business purposes; books might be/should be read by those who need to be prepared in their professional/social life.
In the house of Rabban Gamliel, some studied Greek books, of course not as much as Torah and Torah in the morning and Greek culture after that, right?
Also, how would they mark up money bags in beit hamidash – alef/beit/gimel or alfa/beta/gamma?!March 31, 2021 8:45 am at 8:45 am #1961442
UJM: You’re way off base here, for a number of reasons. Censorship has no “Halacha” behind it, except in the context of self-censorship. Obviously there are things I may not say, write, hear, believe, etc. because I am controlled by Halacha and the will of Hashem. And obviously Halacha often dictates what I may say in a comment, news article, etc. If YWN would be concerned about that, many of the published articles wouldn’t see the light of day, and most of the comments on those articles would either be ignored or “redacted”. And then, of course, YWN would go out of business because it’s a boring website. Our discussion is about YWN’s moderation criteria, which clearly has little or nothing to do with halachic issues.March 31, 2021 8:47 am at 8:47 am #1961469commonsaychelParticipant
The mods are very open in allowing a wide ranges of topic and opinions, if you write something that attacks the commenter on a personal level, they will edit it.
If you write an obvious trollish topic they will not publish it, even so they let quite a number to be postedMarch 31, 2021 10:55 am at 10:55 am #1961499
AAQ: Even by Shidduchim there are halachos that prohibit sharing certain information under certain circumstances (i.e. if the person you share it with might share that sensitive information unnecessarily with other third-parties who are unentitled to know that information.)
FW: Halachicly it is prohibited to read books of kefira. Halacha also requires that we not share loshon hora (even though it is true information), motzi shem ra or rechilas and moderators are required to refuse to publish such comments.March 31, 2021 8:37 pm at 8:37 pm #1961657
I’ve been complaining about YWN’s censorship standards (or, perhaps, double-standards) for 4 years already, so I’m surprised that people are only waking to the issue now.
At any rate, I still think that YW is a good platform to express yourself feelings and opinions. Keep up the good work.March 31, 2021 11:50 pm at 11:50 pm #1961715crazy horseParticipant
my name is bored guy it’s not a reflection of me it’s a reflection of every one who writes in the coffee room it’s just a waste of time for bored people. nothing conducive comes from anything on here.
So here is an example of a post I would delete because it’s rude and condescending to other posters, but then I would be accused of censorship for deleting posts that are unfavorable to the forum when that wasn’t the issue. As I said, it’s not so pashut.April 2, 2021 12:06 am at 12:06 am #1961980
Update: The comment which really prompted me to start this discussion has since been deleted. Not sure if it was due to the discussion or do to the comment I posted on aforementioned article asking the mods to remove it. Either way the guy who wrote it can definitely thank me for possibly assisting him in getting a little less gehinom. If it works that way. Cuz he did do his upmost to spread hate against Gedolim.April 5, 2021 2:28 pm at 2:28 pm #1962457WithheldParticipant
Why do the moderators only remove posts and not delete accounts?April 5, 2021 2:42 pm at 2:42 pm #1962473
yasher koach, Pashut.
Perhaps you can also convince YW to take down the comment posted by ‘yeshivish rockstar2’ on July 16, 2019 which said: “The Lubavicher Rebbe is a mixedbag: He made tons of people frum and brought them closer to Hashem. However, he also ended up causing many yidden to believe in kefira.”
As well as the comment posted by ‘lerntmittayrah’ on March 28 2019, which said: “Please don’t tell me nobody davens to the Rebbe if the sicha from 1979 EXPLICITLY PERMITS IT AND SAYS THE 5TH IKKAR DOESN’T APPLY TO THE REBBE DUE TO ATZMUS. So either they hold it’s true or they hold the Rebbe said apikorsus there and forget about it, but then moshiach can’t be an apikoires.”
If you manage to get rid of those comments you’ll save even more people from gehinnom.April 5, 2021 7:55 pm at 7:55 pm #1962547
Yechi Hamelech: Your republishing those comments here makes it worse, by spreading it to even more people who otherwise wouldn’t have seen it.April 5, 2021 7:56 pm at 7:56 pm #1962557
the reason why so much lashon hara goes down on this site is bec. everyone learns from the stories that YWN posts. half the stories about peleg etc. are clearly leaned towards certain views and the headlines are many times despicable. why don’t they realize that its the worth gehinom for the extra clicks? (not to mention the fake news “hundreds of families double booked in florida”) IY”H YWN will change its standards very quicklyApril 5, 2021 9:56 pm at 9:56 pm #1962559
please explain why my last post got censored (is it bec. of my name?)April 5, 2021 9:56 pm at 9:56 pm #1962599
Oftentimes some of the official stories published on the site are chock full of l”h, r and ms”r. That’s even before any comments.April 5, 2021 9:57 pm at 9:57 pm #1962600commonsaychelParticipant
@YWfakeN, sock puppetApril 6, 2021 9:20 am at 9:20 am #1962619
i don’t understand that commentApril 6, 2021 9:20 am at 9:20 am #1962611
in 2019 alone YW posted 24 articles about peleg, and 12 about berland.
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