June 28, 2020 6:37 pm at 6:37 pm #1877505ParticipantParticipant
before pesach, all the articles commented on how dangerous corona was and how terrible it was that frum people weren’t taking it seriously, but now they’re ak focused on opening everything up and how terrible deblasio is for getting go the way.
note to mods. sorry if I posted this already. I’m using a slow phone and I can’t tell what’s working and what isn’t.June 28, 2020 8:47 pm at 8:47 pm #1877524thinkingclearlyParticipant
Well b4 Pesach it was rampaging through our community and Deblasio wanted schools open etc.. Now the last two months it has gone so we want him to recognize that. Not so hard to figure out.June 28, 2020 8:47 pm at 8:47 pm #1877523chashParticipant
Well, after The virus killed hundreds of yidden, can you say that YWN was wrong?
All the obituaries printed in the frum publications including hamodia and yated, not enough for you?
Now, however, many have a false sense of security. It may be argued that the virus made its rounds through our community, which is why so many of us can be plasma doners, and so most of us seem to not have adverse affects to the lack of mitigation.
However, for other communities, where it did not make its rounds because of implemented mitigation practices, there is now a resurgence of cases.
Anyway, the issue with deblastio is the double standards and hypocrisy, not the content.June 29, 2020 1:14 am at 1:14 am #1877562Little FroggieParticipant
Three and a half answers to you very good question. Let me try…
#1) Our communities and basically all of the metropolitan area (I think) had it already in one form or another. The missed opportunity to prevent this at the VERY ONSET is what made it spread like wildfire. Once we all caught it (about Purim time), self isolating, quarantining and distancing was way too late. It could be argued the in fact it did NOTHING AT ALL for us – we all caught it in the following weeks regardless. And there is very strong evidence that once you caught it – the antibody thing – you’re not gonna get it again. At all. So basically there’s NOTHING AT ALL FOR US TO WORRY ABOUT AT THIS POINT (most of us)
#2) At some point one has to make some sort of cheshbon, a conclusion, that the merits of “breathing” outweigh the concerns of this distancing thing. People are going off the edge. Take a look at society lately (or rather don’t bother) … When too many people are layed off.. when too many people (call them what you like) have plenty of time on their hands… you’re creating a most dangerous situation. These nincompoops sitting in their large offices, the once who think they’re the most important, most informed, most knowledgeable in their “fields”, they don’t take this into consideration. And that’s why America looks like it does. The looting, burning down stores and cities, pulling down statues… and EVERYONE’S FOLLOWING THEM LIKE BLIND SHEEP. They have the platform today… because they have the mobs backing them… because there’s nothing else to do. You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to figure it out. And if they don’t do something pretty soon … בטלה מביא לידי שעמום, Chazal knew human nature more than anyone living today. LIFE MUST RETURN TO NORMAL NOW!!!
#3) These clueless “leaders” are just that. So wishy washy. The only way to get them to say something or do something is by getting President Trump to say or do the opposite! And they’re trying to hold on to any vestige of power still in their power hungry hands. Full of agendas. 15 debriefings a day.. the mayor, the governor, this baal ga’ah, that know it all — day in day out.
In Japan there’s a saying:
GENUG IS GENUG!June 29, 2020 11:47 am at 11:47 am #1877646PekakParticipant
People should probably still be wary for the time being, but come 2022 (hopefully sooner) if you’re still crazy about it they will be opening Corona Mental Wards.June 29, 2020 12:36 pm at 12:36 pm #1877670akupermaParticipant
YWN is an aggregator even though it has occasional original reports. Last spring the powers that be in the scientific world assumed that anyone who came down with Covid19 would get sick enough need to contact a doctor or go to a hospital, similar to the situation for other infamous epidemics, such as smallpox. influenza, typhus, bubonic, etc. They thus decided that most people who were infected would be come seriously ill, and 5% will die. That would mean around 15 to 20 millions deaths in the US alone. Most of the government (except for Trump), and most of the Rabbanim thought this was true and acted accordingly.
It turns out the experts were WRONG. Now that they can test for antibodies, it turns out that 90% of the people who “catch” COVID19 do not get sick enough to care about it. That the NORMAL for Covid19 is a cold symptom or less. In the EXCEPTIONAL cases, it causes serious illness, and perhaps 1 in 300 patients die of it (to but it in context, in the United States 1 in about 120 people die annually), It also turned out that the typical Covid19 patient for whom the disease is life threatening is someone already in per health. Based on the accurate numbers, confirmed in several countries, COVID19 was NEVER an “existential” threat to society, there never was a need for a massive shutdown, there was never a need to close the economy, there was never a need to give up davening and learning, and the experts were wrong. Note that realizing the truth, means concluding the most politicians, and many leading rabbanim, were misled by errors in the presenting the facts. While criticizing politicians and science experts if fair game, criticizing the leaders of our own community is halachically a problem. So YWN aggregates, and doesn’t try to get involved.June 29, 2020 2:26 pm at 2:26 pm #1877712June 29, 2020 2:38 pm at 2:38 pm #1877785ParticipantParticipant
to all those telling me ‘was ywn wrong…thousands of people died’ all I asked was why they changed their policy. thanks to all good answerers, though I still think there’s hypocrisy on ywn’s part.June 29, 2020 3:20 pm at 3:20 pm #1877792n0mesorahParticipant
-last spring = before the spring. Nothing significant has been changed since the end of March.
-powers that be = False. There has not been any shift in how the scientific organizations approached Coronavirus compared to any other virus.
-anyone… sick enough… hospital-This was known to be false in January.
-infamous epidemics=Misinformed. Viruses that can be widely spread, cannot be so deadly.
-smallpox=False. Only those who developed the rash were seriously ill.
-influenza= Are you kidding? I have had a light case of the flu.
-typhus=False. Usually a self-limited disease.
-bubonic=Plague. True. All three forms of plague are near-fatal if left untreated.
-They thus decided…=F=Patently false. There was no cohesive (read: any prediction from Scientists how the virus would play out in the US. Scientists did say that nobody thought the US can be hit as hard as it was.
-5% will die =Two percent was the common number. In January studies the number ranger from 1 to 11 percent.
-15 to 20 million deaths in the US= In mid March US deaths worst case estimates ranged from 200,000 to 1.7M.
-Most of the Government=Across Federal and State governments there was much uncertainty and miscommunication that wasted six weeks of preparations. [This is the main difference between the US and Europe]
-most of the Rabbonim=Did you forget? The Rabbonim in line with the information of everyday askonim tried to avoid the shut down of Yeshivos and so on. Our medical organizations that knew the facts on the ground (not from scientists) forced the issue.
(except for Trump)=Bless him. False. The President called for everyone to stay at home, and not open to quickly. (I know.)
-WRONG=No, they were correct. You misinterpreted.
-90%…=of what sum?
sick… to care about it= Probably true.
-NORMAL cold symptom…. EXCEPTIONAL… serious illness= there is a lot in between.
-1 in 300 die= close enough. I am finding 0.6%
-in context=Good point. Lack of context has been a major problem with public information.
-typical… patient.. life threatening=false. This was known in February. And it has not been so true. It is unclear why it is so.
-“existential”=Define existential. Business as usual would have been impossible due to the disruption of so many people sick. [Without any imposed shutdown.]
– a need for a massive shutdown=Untrue. If only to slow down the amount of patients so hospitals can treat them all.
-close the economy=depends what part. Bars in Florida where just shutdown again.
–give up davening and learning=You said this before, and i do not know what you mean. Someone who gave up on religion because of a pandemic, was never religious.
-experts were wrong=Twice?
-realizing the truth=No falsehood was perpetuated here. Every city had to shutdown at some point.
-most politicians=not a problem. They can switch their tune whenever they want to.
-many leading Rabbanim=not a problem. They do not give interviews.
-misled=A lot is still unknown.
-presenting=There could have been more context, as noted above. And a lot more cohesion. Let’s work on it.
-fair game=Just keep it fair.
-halachically=Not sure what halacha you are referring to.
-doesn’t try=You answered the OP very well.June 29, 2020 4:15 pm at 4:15 pm #1877821lakewoodbubbyParticipant
There’s an old joke about someone who was late to an appointment and was davening to Hashem that he should find a parking space quickly. Lo and behold a parking place opened up! Instead of thanking Hashem, he looks up and says, “Forget it. I found one on my own.” The people who, after the fact, say we didn’t need all the precautions we took back in March and April are disregarding the fact that it is precisely the strict precautions (with ony Hashem making it possible) which brought us to the place we are in right now. By disregarding precautioins now, we are in danger of a resurgence, which is happening in Israel and other states. But everyone wants to be in denial because that means they won’t have to take precautions. YWN was correct originally when lockdown was necessary and is now saying it’s not necessary any more. I don’t know if I agree with total opening up now, but certainly, now, we are in a better place and can open up slowly.
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