Zechiras Amolek

Reb Eliezer, if you knew with 100% certainty that a certain man or woman was an Amoleki, would you slay them; and if so, would you do it happily? (Assuming you knew there would be no legal consequences from any non-Jewish government.)”

Reb Eliezer, sure. I would happily.

Would you not?

I don’t think you understood his answer.

1. One of the reasons of Haredi (ultra orthodox) objection to serve in Army (Israeli draft) is on the score of BrisDin “Katlonis”..that it might affect one’s soul, even when killing is justified. (Yeshivishe T”Ch explained it years ago).

2. We don’t know who Amolek is. Since the time of NACH. Sancheriv bilbeil Kol HoUmos.

3. “Amolek” is also an idea…

Since IrHanidachas was mentioned…

Or-haChayim states :

ונתן לך רחמים ורחמך. כוונת מאמר זה כאן לפי שצוה על עיר הנדחת שיהרגו כל העיר לפי חרב ואפילו בהמתם מעשה הזה יוליד טבע האכזריות בלב האדם, כמו שספרו לנו הישמעאלים כת הרוצחים במאמר המלך כי יש להם חשק גדול בשעה שהורגים אדם ונכרתה מהם שורש הרחמים והיו לאכזר, והבחינה עצמה תהיה נשרשת ברוצחי עיר הנדחת לזה אמר להם הבטחה שיתן להם ה’ רחמים הגם שהטבע יוליד בהם האכזריות מקור הרחמים ישפיע בהם כח הרחמים מחדש לבטל כח האכזריות שנולד בהם מכח המעשה. ואומרו ורחמך העיר בזה שכל זמן שהאדם הוא בגדר טבע אכזרי כמו כן יתנהג ה’ עמו שאין ה’ מרחם אלא לרחמן:

And [Hashem] shall give you mercy and compassion. The intent of this order here is … this act will [usually] give birth to the nature of cruelty in the heart of man, as the Ishmaelites told us the murderers cult in the king’s order that they have a great desire when they kill a person…therefore G-d promised them he would give them mercy even though nature would give birth to the cruelty …

To add on#1944173
Yet, remembering what Amolek did. Of course we all do and mekayem the mitzvah.

Yes, the Minchath-Chinuch comments that theory, still, from ikar halocho today, women are not mechuyev even in parshas zochor, though it BECAME a chiyuv based on Kiblu-al-atzmon…

You mean REISHIS not Rishon…

Reb E, how has russia turned itself into amalek? They’re not attacking jews directly, there are yidden who are caught up in the crossfire…has Putin expressed any desire or done any action to target yidden?

Goyim are allowed to conquer other nations to increase their borders. Lehavdil, we are too, that is the essence of milchemes reshus, to increase the borders of eretz yisroel. Westerners might not like conquest, and we should pursue peace and of course advocate for the war to stop to save the yidden who are in danger, but the idea itself of one nation conquering another is not evil or forbidden.

Also, amalek being an “idea” that can manifest in other nations does not in the least detract from the obligations to wipe out even newborn infants. UJM is trying to drive home the idea that we are happy and proud to do mitzvos, even (actually, especially) when they go against our nature as rachmonim bnei rachmonim, because we are able to serve Hashem by breaking ourselves with mesiras nefesh, as avrohom avinu did with the akeidah. He didn’t do it begrudgingly, he woke up early bezeizus and was ready to do it as he did any other mitzvah. kal vechomer ben bno shel.kal vechomer when the subject of the mitzvah are reshoim.

“Goyim are allowed to conquer other nations to increase their borders…….the idea itself of one nation conquering another is not evil or forbidden….”
AVD: You have a warped sense of “evil”. Watching the bloody photographs this AM of pregnant women and babies at the hospital who were butchered by Russian aircraft and missiles IS evil. Watching the mass burial of dead non-combatant civilians in unmarked graves in the Southern parts of Ukraine IS evil.

AV: I’ll forego the usual hyperbole with regard to your disgusting comments dismissing the ongoing bloodshed in Ukraine as simply goyim engaged in legitimate butchering of one another in their quest for power and the collateral damage to non-combatants as the “way of the world” and unfortunate. Hopefully, you will never be a victim of the “way of the world” and when something like this c’v happens to yidden, the goyim will show more compassion than you are capable of .

Do we have support in Tanach or Gemora for discounts given to evildoers who target all nations, without specifying Jews? Or maybe Avira picked up Zionist virus of nationalism. I would think that seeing Z on Russian trucks should stop you!

Or maybe it is from not paying attention during world history classes. Many reshaim were doing bad things to everyone. For example,
Sanheriv had a policy of moving nations around to better control them, not just Jews (Stalin copied it, including w/ Crimean Tatars and planning for Jews).
Romans had no special cruelty towards Jews, that is how they suppressed everyone. “Carthage has to be destroyed”. And this is what Rashbi says – they build roads to collect taxes, etc. Nothing about anti-semitism.
Even Hamas seems to be triggered by Mordechai’s behavior, not his nation. And he presents a general case to Ahashverosh – a distributed nation …

It seems I’ve stumbled on to an interesting machlokes; the netziv in haemek davar writes the following:

ומיד האדם מיד איש אחיו אדרוש את נפש האדם”, כתב: “מיד איש אחיו, פירש הקב״ה אימתי האדם נענש בשעה שראוי לנהוג באחוה, מה שאין כן בשעת מלחמה ועת לשנוא אז עת להרוג ואין עונש על זה כלל, כי כך נוסד העולם, וכדאיתא בשבועות ל״ה מלכותא דקטלא חד משיתא לא מיענש, ואפילו מלך ישראל מותר לעשות מלחמת הרשות”[

He’s saying that the world was established with wars and that a goyish country/King is not punished for even a bloody conflict in which (quoting the gemara in shvuos 35) even if one sixth of the entire population is wiped out, they are not punished.

Rav menachem ziemba, however, writes the following:

דעכו״ם יש לו קנין בכיבוש מלחמה, אבל אין לו היתר לכבוש, שאין הנכרי רשאי ללחום עם חברו

He says that one goy has no right to fight with another, and that yidden have a heter only because of having a Sanhedrin

So I must retract my statements as only being true according to some poskim – I am interested in this topic and will imyh post more when I find other shitos and sources

Avirah Darah,

האם בּרור לך שיש כּאן מחלוקת ? אולי הנציב אינו מדבּר על מלחמת כּיבּוש גוים . עיין תוספות שם

RebE > Chasam Sofer explains the passage תלמידי חכמים מרבים שלום בעולם,

+1.

I understood it as one of the definition of T’Ch – if you seem someone achieving machlokes, then he is not T’Ch. This seems to contradict the idea that a Rav that is liked by everyone may not be strong enough… Maybe there is a difference here:
As we heard in a video where a woman was provoking an Ashkenzi Rav first and a Sefardi one later “Hu Rav, Ani Chacham”