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When is the earliest and latest you can daven Shachris? Mincha? Maariv?
Are there different shittas as to when shkia is?
How can one shul start davening mincha after another shul (or even in the basement of the same shul) finished maariv?
If on Monday you davened Maariv in a shul at 8:00, can you daven Mincha at a 8:30 minyan on Tuesday?
When is the earliest and latest you can daven Shachris? Mincha? Maariv?
Shacharis: sunrise, 4th hour
Mincha: half hour past noon, sunset
Maariv: not certain about earliest, sunrise
Are there different shittas as to when shkia is?
No. Anyone can look at the horizon and see when the sun sets.
The Wolf
shlishi, are you asking all these halachic questions on so many new threads today because you want to know the answers? Or because you want to inform everyone here about these answers?
“4th hour”
??? ??? ????? today was about 10:30 am. Is that past the 4th hour? (And how does the 11:00 minyan start afterwards?)
Are there different shittas as to when shkia is?
No. Anyone can look at the horizon and see when the sun sets.
That’s if you go according to the Gaonim, who consider “shkiah” the setting of the actual sphere of the sun.
Rabbeinu Tam, however, considers “shkiah” to be when the last rays of the sun “set” (also called “shkiah shniyah”).
Since many follow R”T’s shittah (some Chassidim), one shul can be davening Mincha while another is davening Ma’ariv.
How do you have Shachris minyanim starting after ??? ??? ??????
Monday’s are a Litvish Maariv and Tuesday’s a Chasidish Mincha?
Who goes by Rabbeinu Tam’s shkia today?
Many, if not most, Chassidim, although the minhag in the US is for everyone to be machmir for the first shkia with regard to doing melacha on Shabbos or Yom Tov.
And how can a shul have a mincha and maariv minyan running simultaneously?
It’s easier if there are two rooms. ?
And how can a shul have a mincha and maariv minyan running simultaneously?
No problem you can when necessary rely on R Yehuda that Maariv can be davened after Plag which is .12499 0f the day for instance today in Zip 11204 is 6:56:10 Gra & Rav 7:53:10 Magen Avraham.
What is problematic is the same person doing both Mincha & Maariv after Plag.
OOPS !!!
for a brief explantion see
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/144443/jewish/Plag-Hamincha.htm
myzmanim.com provides Zmanim acoording to a myriad of Shitos worldwide
Zmanim hotline 718 8379124 provides Zmanin for USA & Canada
Is there any problem starting to daven maariv immediately after finishing davening mincha?
shlishi,
I didn’t say that. There’s an inyan to be consistent in the zmanim (even more so on the same day).
Englishman,
Yes, but it may be okay under certain circumstances. It should not be tarti d’sasri, meaning there should be a reasonable way of considering mincha during the day and ma’ariv at night (e.g. before/ after plag or shkia) and a sha’as had’chak, such as difficulty in organizing a minyan later. Otherwise, ma’ariv should be after tzeis hacochavim.
“What is problematic is the same person doing both Mincha & Maariv after Plag.”
You wouldn’t know that there is a problem by the number of shuls where this is done, especially erev Shabat.
Here is one: Daven Maariv right after plag and Minchah right before sunset at a different shul.
Or, on Friday afternoon, at the same shul! There are two shuls in my neighborhood where there is a maariv minyan before a minchah minyan.
(Somehow I don’t think this works ;).)
shlishi,
So long as it is on different days (as opposed to the same day) it’s only an inyan rather than mandatory?
It’s okay b’shaa’s had’chak.
charliehall,
Or, on Friday afternoon, at the same shul! There are two shuls in my neighborhood where there is a maariv minyan before a minchah minyan.
(Somehow I don’t think this works ;).)
In theory, if the people who conducted themselves like R Yehuda, and the people who conducted themselves like the Rabbonn, would be davenig at separate minyanim, there shouldn’t be a problem.
In reality, I think most people conduct themselves according to the Rabbonon (anyone who davens mincha during the week after plag).
There have been various tzadikim who’ve davened Shachris well after the normative zman, some even after chatzos. (They practiced the same principle with Mincha and Maariv.) They even did so with a minyan (i.e. they weren’t doing it alone.) What shitta(s) are they based on?
“The time of sunset is defined in astronomy as the moment when the trailing edge of the Sun’s disk disappears below the horizon.” This is how Wikipedia defines sunset, so this is the only time of sunset, and any later time when sun rays disappear from horizon, is end of Dusk, but not sunset as explained by wikipedia:- “Sunset is distinct from dusk, which is the time at which the sky becomes completely dark,”
So long as it is on different days (as opposed to the same day) is akin to Availus in Omer, that 1 year one can observe 1st 33 days, and next year observe last 33 days, or vice versea, all this so long as it is on a different year.
There have been various tzadikim who’ve davened Shachris well after the normative zman, some even after chatzos. (They practiced the same principle with Mincha and Maariv.) They even did so with a minyan (i.e. they weren’t doing it alone.) What shitta(s) are they based on?
They think that if you start “preparing” for prayer at the correct time, it’s considered like you started davening on time, and once you start davening at the right time, you can continue for as long as you want without a problem.
Here is one: Daven Maariv right after plag and Minchah right before sunset at a different shul.
Or, on Friday afternoon, at the same shul! There are two shuls in my neighborhood where there is a maariv minyan before a minchah minyan.
This is totally absurd.
This is not a reason to draw arms. The tefillos are not directly connected to the day-night cycle. Therefore they can overlap and contradict.
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