Zmanei Tefila

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  • #597546

    shlishi
    Member

    When is the earliest and latest you can daven Shachris? Mincha? Maariv?

    Are there different shittas as to when shkia is?

    How can one shul start davening mincha after another shul (or even in the basement of the same shul) finished maariv?

    If on Monday you davened Maariv in a shul at 8:00, can you daven Mincha at a 8:30 minyan on Tuesday?

    #1088517

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    When is the earliest and latest you can daven Shachris? Mincha? Maariv?

    Shacharis: sunrise, 4th hour

    Mincha: half hour past noon, sunset

    Maariv: not certain about earliest, sunrise

    Are there different shittas as to when shkia is?

    No. Anyone can look at the horizon and see when the sun sets.

    The Wolf

    #1088519

    tobg
    Member

    shlishi, are you asking all these halachic questions on so many new threads today because you want to know the answers? Or because you want to inform everyone here about these answers?

    #1088520

    shein
    Member

    “4th hour”

    ??? ??? ????? today was about 10:30 am. Is that past the 4th hour? (And how does the 11:00 minyan start afterwards?)

    #1088522

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Are there different shittas as to when shkia is?

    No. Anyone can look at the horizon and see when the sun sets.

    That’s if you go according to the Gaonim, who consider “shkiah” the setting of the actual sphere of the sun.

    Rabbeinu Tam, however, considers “shkiah” to be when the last rays of the sun “set” (also called “shkiah shniyah”).

    Since many follow R”T’s shittah (some Chassidim), one shul can be davening Mincha while another is davening Ma’ariv.

    #1088523

    shlishi
    Member

    Who goes by Rabbeinu Tam’s shkia today?

    And how can a shul have a mincha and maariv minyan running simultaneously?

    #1088524

    shein
    Member

    How do you have Shachris minyanim starting after ??? ??? ??????

    #1088525

    Pac-Man
    Member

    Monday’s are a Litvish Maariv and Tuesday’s a Chasidish Mincha?

    #1088526

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Who goes by Rabbeinu Tam’s shkia today?

    Many, if not most, Chassidim, although the minhag in the US is for everyone to be machmir for the first shkia with regard to doing melacha on Shabbos or Yom Tov.

    And how can a shul have a mincha and maariv minyan running simultaneously?

    It’s easier if there are two rooms. ?

    #1088527

    me too
    Member

    And how can a shul have a mincha and maariv minyan running simultaneously?

    No problem you can when necessary rely on R Yehuda that Maariv can be davened after Plag which is .12499 0f the day for instance today in Zip 11204 is 6:56:10 Gra & Rav 7:53:10 Magen Avraham.

    What is problematic is the same person doing both Mincha & Maariv after Plag.

    #1088528

    me too
    Member

    OOPS !!!

    for a brief explantion see

    http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/144443/jewish/Plag-Hamincha.htm

    myzmanim.com provides Zmanim acoording to a myriad of Shitos worldwide

    Zmanim hotline 718 8379124 provides Zmanin for USA & Canada

    #1088531

    shlishi
    Member

    Daas Yochid:

    So you hold there is no problem holding by the Gaonim’s shkiah somedays (i.e. for Maariv), while on other days holding by (and davening with) Rabbeinu Tam’s shkiah (i.e. for Mincha)?

    #1088532

    Englishman
    Member

    Is there any problem starting to daven maariv immediately after finishing davening mincha?

    #1088533

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    shlishi,

    I didn’t say that. There’s an inyan to be consistent in the zmanim (even more so on the same day).

    Englishman,

    Yes, but it may be okay under certain circumstances. It should not be tarti d’sasri, meaning there should be a reasonable way of considering mincha during the day and ma’ariv at night (e.g. before/ after plag or shkia) and a sha’as had’chak, such as difficulty in organizing a minyan later. Otherwise, ma’ariv should be after tzeis hacochavim.

    #1088534

    shlishi
    Member

    DY: So long as it is on different days (as opposed to the same day) it’s only an inyan rather than mandatory?

    #1088535

    shlishi
    Member

    Wolf: You can daven maariv till sunrise? Isn’t that m’doraisa, but m’drabbonan you have to say it before chatzos?

    I think it is the same with Shachris needing to be said before Sof Zman Tefila, even though you really have until chatzos(?)

    #1088536

    charliehall
    Participant

    “What is problematic is the same person doing both Mincha & Maariv after Plag.”

    You wouldn’t know that there is a problem by the number of shuls where this is done, especially erev Shabat.

    #1088537

    charliehall
    Participant

    Here is one: Daven Maariv right after plag and Minchah right before sunset at a different shul.

    Or, on Friday afternoon, at the same shul! There are two shuls in my neighborhood where there is a maariv minyan before a minchah minyan.

    (Somehow I don’t think this works ;).)

    #1088538

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    shlishi,

    So long as it is on different days (as opposed to the same day) it’s only an inyan rather than mandatory?

    It’s okay b’shaa’s had’chak.

    charliehall,

    Or, on Friday afternoon, at the same shul! There are two shuls in my neighborhood where there is a maariv minyan before a minchah minyan.

    (Somehow I don’t think this works ;).)

    In theory, if the people who conducted themselves like R Yehuda, and the people who conducted themselves like the Rabbonn, would be davenig at separate minyanim, there shouldn’t be a problem.

    In reality, I think most people conduct themselves according to the Rabbonon (anyone who davens mincha during the week after plag).

    #1088539

    Joseph
    Participant

    There have been various tzadikim who’ve davened Shachris well after the normative zman, some even after chatzos. (They practiced the same principle with Mincha and Maariv.) They even did so with a minyan (i.e. they weren’t doing it alone.) What shitta(s) are they based on?

    #1088540

    147
    Participant

    “The time of sunset is defined in astronomy as the moment when the trailing edge of the Sun’s disk disappears below the horizon.” This is how Wikipedia defines sunset, so this is the only time of sunset, and any later time when sun rays disappear from horizon, is end of Dusk, but not sunset as explained by wikipedia:- “Sunset is distinct from dusk, which is the time at which the sky becomes completely dark,”

    So long as it is on different days (as opposed to the same day) is akin to Availus in Omer, that 1 year one can observe 1st 33 days, and next year observe last 33 days, or vice versea, all this so long as it is on a different year.

    #1088541

    mik5
    Participant

    There have been various tzadikim who’ve davened Shachris well after the normative zman, some even after chatzos. (They practiced the same principle with Mincha and Maariv.) They even did so with a minyan (i.e. they weren’t doing it alone.) What shitta(s) are they based on?

    They think that if you start “preparing” for prayer at the correct time, it’s considered like you started davening on time, and once you start davening at the right time, you can continue for as long as you want without a problem.

    #1088542

    mik5
    Participant

    Here is one: Daven Maariv right after plag and Minchah right before sunset at a different shul.

    Or, on Friday afternoon, at the same shul! There are two shuls in my neighborhood where there is a maariv minyan before a minchah minyan.

    This is totally absurd.

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