Zoos and Chometz

Home Forums Yom Tov Pesach Zoos and Chometz

Viewing 50 posts - 1 through 50 (of 109 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #602805

    nitpicker
    Participant

    many take their kids to zoos on chol hamoed.

    zoos often sell animal food to feed to animals.

    this food may be chomets.

    many people dont seem to realize this.

    you are not allowed to purchase chometz

    even to feed to animals.

    #1196500

    TheGoq
    Participant

    Nitpicker i raised this very same question on the what to do on chol hamoed thread just 2 days ago.

    http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/ideas-for-chol-hamoed-pesach-5772-2012

    #1196501

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    I would have thought that to be obvious.

    The Wolf

    #1196502

    nitpicker
    Participant

    glad that others have brought this up.

    yes it should be obvious, I have heard that people do it with out thinking. and some don’t want to hear it when you point it out to them!

    #1196503

    Derech
    Member

    I would have thought that to be obvious.

    The Wolf

    For a tzadik and talmid chochom like yourself, many things that us pashute yidden still need reminders and pointing out, is obvious. Many of us hope to one day reach your level of clear thinking and constant concern for halachic compliance.

    #1196504

    Shticky Guy
    Participant

    Obvious to those that realize it, not to those to whom it has not occurred yet. And even during the year make sure the feed does not contain meat and milk

    #1196505

    Imaofthree
    Participant

    It’s not so obvious for some people. One year I took my kids to a small zoo set up for chol hamoed in our town, and I saw frum men and women buying the food to feed the animals. The food was for sure chometz gamur and I told the people but they ignored me. My husband (abbaofthree) told our Rov about this and he said that it is ossur to buy chometz and feed it to animals. He was pretty horrified that they bought chometz, thus OWNING it.

    #1196506

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    For a tzadik and talmid chochom like yourself

    I never claimed to be a tzaddik or a talmid chacham. On the contrary, I have often claimed to be the very opposite of those things.

    The Wolf

    #1196507

    apushatayid
    Participant
    #1196508

    147
    Participant

    I already encountered this issue years ago, when some Chassidic guy in full garb, asked me for change to buy food to feed the goats in Central Park Zoo.

    I am there in this bright suit & colored shirt, telling him:- Do you realize that this is Chometz Gomur? (& I figured this out myself without the assistance of a rabbi). He was shocked & didn’t want to belief me, but eventually succumbed, and altered his plans he had been planning on, to feed the goats.

    #1196509

    midwesterner
    Participant

    That’s what you get for not keeping your mouth shut during laining.

    #1196510

    Derech
    Member

    I never claimed to be a tzaddik or a talmid chacham. On the contrary, I have often claimed to be the very opposite of those things.

    Of course, of course. From a massive anav such as yourself I would expect no less. Virtually all our tzadikim never acknowledged it. And very many of the greatest of the greats actively denied it or even admitted to being something else. (There is even, at least, one famous story of that effect.)

    Mods: Can you please change Reb Wolf’s subtitle to “Lamed Vov & Humongous Anav”, please?

    #1196511

    moishy
    Participant

    The Goq- and I beleive I answered your question (hopefully correctly ;)).

    #1196512

    TheGoq
    Participant

    Yes u did answer moishy thank you.

    #1196513

    MorahRach
    Member

    I go every year to the zoo and I have never seen any yidden buying food for the animals. Interesting! I wonder how many CR people will bump into each other next week at the zoo:)

    #1196514

    kfb
    Participant

    Morahrach, you obviously never go then because I see way to many yidden buying treife animal food. It’s horrible! What are frum yidden doing at the zoo anyways? Too much pritzus and shtus going on. The men should be home learning and the women should be cooking and taking care of the children.

    #1196515

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    I see way to many yidden buying treife animal food. It’s horrible!

    Why? Assuming it’s not Pesach and the kids aren’t eating the animal food (but rather, giving it to the animals) why is it horrible?

    The Wolf

    #1196516

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Of course, of course. From a massive anav such as yourself I would expect no less. Virtually all our tzadikim never acknowledged it. And very many of the greatest of the greats actively denied it or even admitted to being something else. (There is even, at least, one famous story of that effect.)

    An anav does not harp about his sins as I do. An anav simply doesn’t proclaim his greatness.

    Mods: Can you please change Reb Wolf’s subtitle to “Lamed Vov & Humongous Anav”, please?

    Please don’t.

    The Wolf

    #1196517

    Sam2
    Participant

    Shtick: What’s the problem during the year with Basar B’chalav feed? There is no Issur of owning Basar Bechalav and I don’t think that feeding the zoo’s animals with food that you specifically bought from the zoo to give these animals is called Hana’ah. Especially since it’s already a Machlokes whether to be Machmir on N’veilah B’chalav, I don’t think that would be a problem at all.

    #1196518

    Logician
    Participant

    Aha! How interesting. No matter what people throw at Wolf, he seems to thrive on it. At last we’ve found a way to unsettle him.

    #1196519

    kfb
    Participant

    Wolf- did you read my post or quickly jump to argue? I obviously meant on pesach

    #1196520

    Logician
    Participant

    Sam2 – feeding a hefker animal basar b’chalav is a shailah, actually they make tzushtel from Pesach

    #1196521

    OneOfMany
    Participant

    What are frum yidden doing at the zoo anyways? Too much pritzus and shtus going on.

    lolololol what a comedian.

    #1196522

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Wolf- did you read my post or quickly jump to argue? I obviously meant on pesach

    Not so obvious.

    Your complaint was about tarfus, not chometz.

    Furthermore, if you can be sure that the feed has no chometz, then there is still no problem buying it and giving it to animals, even if it is 100% traife gamur.

    That being said, it wasn’t obvious at all that your post was referring to chometz and Pesach.

    The Wolf

    #1196523

    ZeesKite
    Participant

    In my humble opinion buying animal feed in Pesach is worse then chametz from before Pesach. The one before Pesach was already ‘batel’ with ‘kol chamira’, whereas buying chametz is definitely NOT batel. Furthermore, to my limited knowledge, one cannot be mevatel his newly acquired chametz in pesach, so he’s stuck with the aveira.

    #1196524

    Sam2
    Participant

    Logician: It’s a Machlokes by Issurei Hana’ah that comes from the Gemara about giving a dog N’veilah. But this is probably better because it’s not really your Issurei Hana’ah that you’re giving to a B’ehimah Shel Hefker. The reason for not feeding the B’heimah Shel Hefker Issurei Hana’ah is that the animal will like you. That’s just not true in a petting zoo. The animal won’t recognize you more than the tens of thousands of others who feed it. Also, I did combine the fact that there’s also a Machlokes by whether N’veilah B’chalav is Assur B’hana’ah.

    #1196525

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Animals that are carnevours are usually wilder animals. Dogs and Cats are domesticated versions of their wilder counterparts like Tigers or Wolves.

    Animals that are in a petting zoo are of the tame variety and those animals are herbavous and calm. Animals that eat meat have to be wild otherwise they cannot catch they prey in the wild.

    In Other words , You are unlikely to be feeding Nveliah to any animal in a petting zoo

    #1196526

    kfb
    Participant

    wolf- I was describing what the food is, that it’s treif. My comment came after someone who posted that they go on pesach every year and they never see frum yidden buying animal food. So it was obvious I was talking about pesach.

    #1196527

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I went to the bronx zoo today with all the kids. While the veiber got stuff ready for pesach.

    We saw one other frum guy there with his kid.

    #1196528

    kfb
    Participant

    Popa- for all we know you could live in New Zealand. Please stop commenting, you’re a pathelogical lier.

    #1196529

    nitpicker
    Participant

    bump, it’s time for a reminder.

    Buying food for animals in zoos on chol hamoed pesach

    may mean buying and owning chomets. Clearly forbidden.

    don’t pay attention to me or the other posters here,

    ask your rav.

    #1196530

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    I saw the title and thought this was a thread about my house.

    #1196531

    truthsharer
    Member

    nitpicker, why in the world would you have to ask your rav? If it’s chametz, it’s assur.

    #1196532

    SaysMe
    Member

    syag- lol!

    #1196533

    nitpicker
    Participant

    to truthsharer

    good question!

    you are right. this is simple and there is no room for argument.

    but this is the coffee room.

    there is no telling what sort of response will be generated.

    #1196534

    nitpicker
    Participant

    bump.

    forgive me but I will bump this one more time erev pesach.

    #1196535

    akuperma
    Participant

    Zoos are a definite shailoh if you own the zoo. Of course, most carnivores do not eat hametz, though they do eat animals that had eaten hametz. And while Lions and Tigers never eat hametz or kitniot, Bears are know to eat anything and anyone they can.

    #1196536

    nitpicker
    Participant

    to truthsharer:

    See what I mean?

    #1196537

    writersoul
    Member

    ONE MORE THING: Even if you’re SO smart and you know- I mean, like, DUH- that the animal food is chametz, that does NOT mean that the animals would like a nice heimishe snack of shmurah matzah. It’s astonishing how many times I’ve seen that, and it’s really bad for the animals (I mean, let’s face it, it’s not exactly kind to us…).

    #1196538

    rebdoniel
    Member

    The problem is that the animal food is probably hametz and/or contains basar v’ chalav.

    #1196540

    nitpicker
    Participant

    one more bump as promised

    #1196541

    nitpicker
    Participant

    bump 1 of 3 5774

    #1196542

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Ask the zoo officials if you are allowed to bring your own animal food.

    #1196543

    MurphysLaw
    Member

    From what i understand, the zoos feed their prisoners on a regular basis. you not purchasing food for the duration of seven days will in no way affect the animals health. ignoring the fact that many people will still be wasting otherwise useful money on unnecessary fodder.

    You could try feeding the ducks moldy matzoh, but only if you Gebrok.

    #1196544

    charliehall
    Participant

    “you are not allowed to purchase chometz even to feed to animals”

    The animals in the Zoos in the US are not owned by Jews. Not an issue.

    The Bronx Zoo has a petting Zoo with domestic animals, in which kids can buy animal feed to feed the animals. That would be the only problem, so if the Zoo can’t tell you for sure that there is no chametz in that feed, don’t buy it!

    #1196545

    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    “The animals in the Zoos in the US are not owned by Jews. Not an issue.”

    ?

    But you are allowed to go into a Mikva on Shabbos?

    #1196546

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    There are no “prisoners” in a zoo. Zoo animals have done no crime and are not being punished for one either. The sheep and goats are there as community pets, and people feed them for the experience.

    #1196547

    nitpicker
    Participant

    You are not allowed to own chometz on pesach.

    When you buy the animal feed you own it. What you do with it after you buy does not affect the avera of owning it.

    Issues about who owns the animals are not relevant.

    You must not own chomtz on pesach.

    And by the way, it is forbidden to own chometz on pesach.

    Oh and don’t forget, one may not buy or own chometz on pesach.

    what a disgusting place this is.

    #1196548

    oomis
    Participant

    You may not get hanaah (derive any benefit)from your chometz on Pesach and that includes feeding it to animals.

    #1196549

    nitpicker
    Participant

    to oomis.

    Once again, it is forbidden to own chomets. Feeding the chomets to an animal you do not own for the pleasure of doing so,

    may possibly be called having benefit from the chomets.

    but you can’t buy it in the first place, so feeding it to the animals may be a SECOND averah. I know you mean well, unlike some of the posters here, but you are just clouding a very simple issue.

    There is really nothing more to be said.

    I will bump this once or twice more so that more people will see it.

Viewing 50 posts - 1 through 50 (of 109 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.


Trending