Forum Replies Created
July 23, 2017 6:41 pm at 6:41 pm in reply to: ANOTHER shocking LETTER published IN the VOICE of LAKEWOOD #1324120
@anonymous123 – it’s ok, even if you are questioning it. You wouldn’t have been the first…
The entire hanhala saw it, I actually once drove up and watched as a hanhala member watched a few kids pushing my son around. But they insisted that this is the way boys normally behave, the occasional cut and scrape is normal boy behavior. I can’t count how many times I was told that as a woman, I “just don’t understand” the dynamics in boys’ schools.
Finally about 8 weeks ago we got them to come to a meeting with a therapist, who, after nearly two hours (we were scheduled for a one hour appointment) finally got them to understand that the pattern was clearly one of bullying. They were silent for a while after that, as it started sinking in. You could actually see the rebbe shrink into himself. He stopped talking for almost twenty minutes. On the one hand I was relieved that he finally understood, and on the other, so furious that it took a professional to convince him, and that he never trusted our words, not once. He kept saying things to the effect of, “how did I miss this”? (FYI I paid for that two hour visit, and many others before and since.) After that it got a bit better in the classroom, but the menahel did not follow through with what we had decided at that meeting. So he endured two more months, and now my son is finally out of there. Now comes the challenge of finding him someplace new.
In case it’s relevant, I have over ten years of teaching experience, and I always told parents, “I know this grade and age level, but you know your son better than I ever can. Together we can give him the best year possible.” I also have a few college courses in childhood and adult psychology under my belt as part of two degrees.July 23, 2017 12:33 pm at 12:33 pm in reply to: ANOTHER shocking LETTER published IN the VOICE of LAKEWOOD #1322966
@chaya13: Read my post again. I did not attack you, I actually just asked you what your credentials are. What did my “telling” response tell you? I find it interesting that you didn’t answer any of my questions, but simply reiterated what you already said clearly in your previous post.
Methinks she doth protest too much…July 23, 2017 12:26 pm at 12:26 pm in reply to: ANOTHER shocking LETTER published IN the VOICE of LAKEWOOD #1322962
@ kollelman: Not “schools”. Not “the system”. It’s EACH teacher, rebbe, principal, rosh yeshiva, therapist, parent – each person who doesn’t take a complaint seriously, doesn’t follow through, blames the victim, doesn’t speak up – each one separately is responsible. We need to stop hiding behind groups and systems.July 23, 2017 12:55 am at 12:55 am in reply to: ANOTHER shocking LETTER published IN the VOICE of LAKEWOOD #1322784
@chaya13: How much experience do you have? How many years of formal education? This occurred in high school, with photo evidence. That’s the topic here. For every parent that is accused if “blowing things out of proportion”, probably half of them aren’t. I was accused if overreacting, blowing things out of proportion, and of wanting to make a “federal case” out of everything (an actual quote. My son had deep cuts on his forearm. I have pictures of it. I was still accused. How do you not see the problem? You might need to take a step back and do a cheshbon hanefesh. You might be part of it.July 22, 2017 11:02 pm at 11:02 pm in reply to: ANOTHER shocking LETTER published IN the VOICE of LAKEWOOD #1322758
@LoveAll these mechanchim aren’t old enough or experienced enough to be ‘burnt out’. I think one has to be teaching for longer than they have been to earn that excuse. I still call laziness and lack of knowledge.July 21, 2017 6:44 pm at 6:44 pm in reply to: ANOTHER shocking LETTER published IN the VOICE of LAKEWOOD #1322675
You’re asking me why? The given reasons were that since my son annoyed them, it made sense that they hit him (he talks a lot in class) and also, “that’s just how boys behave, Mrs -, you don’t understand!”
If that’s the basic attitude, then there’s nothing to punish.
It’s easier to gaslight the victim than to address the perpetrator.
My short answer, laziness.July 21, 2017 5:19 pm at 5:19 pm in reply to: ANOTHER shocking LETTER published IN the VOICE of LAKEWOOD #1322631
Mothers are also responsible to educate their children. Sorry, misogyny has no place in real Yiddishkeit.
I appreciate the validation that this issue is serious enough that the authorities should have been called, but if we follow that scenario to its probable end, my son would probably not have a school to go to next year. And then what would I do? Go to court? I can’t afford it.
I don’t know what the mandated reporting laws are here. What I do know is that anyone who reported such a thing would find him/herself out of a job (as per a mechanech I spoke to). And there are possible shmiras halashon issues here – so it’s not that simple.
I did try going to a community resource that purported to help with bullying claims. Not so helpful.
RebYidd23 – Maybe not expelled, but maybe disciplined? Anything. Definitely not laughing while it’s happening or telling my son that he “asked for it”. Anyone with any psychology background knows how terribly damaging that is to a child’s psyche.
Local rav – that would be a nice idea except what would a rav do? Think – if the school has no respect for mentchlichkeit, why would they have the middos and derech eretz to listen to a rav? And how, exactly, would the rav make them listen?
CTlawyer – you are correct, the damage to emotional health is staggering. Not to mention the damage to spiritual health – if this is how seemingly frum yidden behave, what’s the point?
Kotlorism – who is this Amudim and how do they help? I tried what I think is a similar program and they were basically useless.
The bullying went on for the entire year. I didn’t realize how bad it was until Pesach time. This child is in high school, so, a child, technically, but not a small one. CPS is not necessary. If the school had a zero tolerance policy instead of taking the easiest way out by attacking one kid (my son) instead of the whole gang of teenage miscreants (a much harder task) this whole thing would have been avoided.
Kollelman – I’m not sure if you’re saying these are issues with me or the parents of the bullies, but I would like to mention, my husband and I both work, not on any government programs, I have less than the ‘usual’ number of children and they are not close in age, I pay full tuition even though it makes making ends meet difficult (we believe that chinuch is a priority over a mansion), my children have a formal secular education and we frequent the public library. And I grew up in Lakewood. So I don’t think I fit your stereotype.
Daas Yochid – It’s not the system, it’s the people who are falling apart.
It’s a simple solution:
Educators should be college educate in the psychology of their target demographic. Parents should insist on an in-house psychology professional that students can see, and discussions should be kept confidential from parents and faculty unless the child signs a release form – or if mandated by law.
Both of these should be mandatory, or the school gets no public funding, including tax deductions, Pell and Tag grants, and whatever else they get.
When my grandfather was dying, he told my grandmother that when looking for shidduchim for their daughters, she should look for a man who was a “mentch, a yaray shamayim, and ken lernen a bissel, in THAT order”. Those were the priorities I grew up with, and that is what I was lucky to find as well. So this “learn gemara all day and beat up and taunt kids during recess” thing is beyond my comprehension.
Bashing “the system” is not the point here. Make a change. Call your school Find out their policies. Don’t pay tuition if your child is suffering and no one is helping. Keep calling and pushing the school until they change. And if your child describes trouble in school, take it seriously. Write down names so that you can keep track of emerging patterns and address it. And educate your children – teach them what bullying is and to never do it. Teach them about the beauty in every neshama, even if they can’t see it.
These boys are all required by halacha to ask mechila. My child is older than 13. But no one will think that it’s them or their child. Ask yourself this: what if you discovered that your child is the bully? What would you do?July 21, 2017 2:43 pm at 2:43 pm in reply to: ANOTHER shocking LETTER published IN the VOICE of LAKEWOOD #1322583
I’m the original letter writer. Why shouldn’t I have written it? Why should my husband have written it?July 21, 2017 2:43 pm at 2:43 pm in reply to: ANOTHER shocking LETTER published IN the VOICE of LAKEWOOD #1322585
How about 15 year old?