Forum Replies Created
Try to feel as confident as possible when wearing your snood in public; people tend to pick up on this and see “the whole you” when you are very comfortable with yourself.
I’ve heard others complain about the headaches too, and I feel for you.
I guess you are having a difficult time understanding the message. Please choose a partner for a Shmiras Haloshon seder.
“we can all learn a lesson from this posting. Too many people make assertions about MO,chareidim,chassidim etc based upon a limited amount of information or based upon personal experience”
I agree completely.
“People on this blog ( not Sarah ) are willing to be Dam L’kaf Zchus on accused child molesters; shouldn’t the same be extended to a poster who sounds sincere in his anguish in describing the emotional pain inflicted upon his wife?”
Emotional pain is legitimate. However, I think it needs to be expressed via a vehicle other than sinning. That’s the second lesson from this posting. Emotions, however painful, do not justify doing Aveiros, particularly such a grievous sin as Motzi Shem Ra/Lashon Hara on a community.
“It’s about accepting that this person’s experiences might be different than mine and that you’ve been zocheh not to have encountered this.”
Absolutely. It is my hope that in the future, bloggers who wish to air a grievance or otherwise express emotional pain do so in a manner that avoids further Aveiros, albeit this time by the “insultee” rather than the insulter. I am working on this as well.
I hope these words are taken in the sincere spirit with which they were written.
All the best.
Are you asking your question L’shem Shomayim? Or is Motzi Shem Ra and Lashon Hara on a community just a Chumrah too?
A blog is an anonymous forum. The dangers inherent in such a forum are enormous. One area is the potential for complete fabrications to either enjoy the excitement or satisfy an agenda.
If someone is being Motzi Shem Ra (or speaking Lashon Hara) on a community, it is our (yours, mine, and others) obligation to either defend the community (in a case of Motzi Shem Ra) or protest the Lashon Hara.
Protesting the veracity of Mr. ModernLakewoodGuy’s rendition of his story is simply that. A public sin by an anonymous blogger needs to be counteracted publicly. Obviously, a blogger using his name will need to be addressed in an alternative format, however arduous.
“But some people know my screen name” is feeble.
If you have difficulty accepting criticism, I understand. That’s human nature. It’s OK to disagree, too. I like Chumras (snood), you don’t :).
For now, I think you should bring future questions on this issue to your LOR. I will do the same. If you do, I hope you print out the exact text of our dialogue, instead of providing your own rendition of our positions as stated in the thread.
All the best.
Thank you for your perspective. I am thankful I’ve never experienced what you have, and feel pained that you have. Perhaps I’ve been fortunate to have nice neighbors and acquaintances throughout the years?
Your pain notwithstanding, the Motzi Shem Ra (or Lashon Hara, as may be the case) is still a serious concern. If I am the only one concerned regarding this terrible Aaveirah, I am even more saddened.
Perhaps YWN posters would do better to start a thread on Sefer Chafetz Chaim before attempting to vent. A friend recently mentioned to me that today’s Yetzer Hara is no longer Lashon Hara and Motzi Shem Ra- these have become taboo because of widespread education. Reading some of these threads, I can see she is very mistaken.
There are some threads that I do not open, as the subject title indicates Lashon Hara/Motzi Shem Ra. This thread appeared neutral; a Halachah/Hashkafah dialogue. It was disappointing to discover otherwise.
It is my hope that fellow Jews will learn to discuss grievances without being Oveir such serious sins. We can all grow in this area, including myself.
All the best.
You make good points. Here are my thoughts:
The writer wrote “Why is it that a women who wears a modest snood on shabbos gets dirty looks and jeers from other Lakewood woman who strut about with their $3,000 custom wigs? Why did my wife even have one woman come up to her and tell her that “this isn’t an israeli kibutz and its not shabosdik to wear a snood”.
I would not think twice if the writer would be discussing a one-time incident. There are rude individuals in every community, unfortunately. However, “dirty looks and jeers from other Lakewood women” seems to be discussing multiple individuals. Being a long-time Lakewood resident of multiple and varied neighborhoods and a “snood wearer”, I feel the post is not credible. Most women I know wear snoods on Shabbos afternoon. The post, however plaintive, does not ring true. Anyone is free to disagree of course.
I truly understand your concern regarding a possible insult. In almost every other situation, my perspective would mirror yours. This time, though, I think the concern needs to be redirected to the terrible Motzei Shem Ra on a community, which is a very serious Aveirah. I think you would agree that Elul is no time to be speaking ill (especially fabricating ill) of whole communities. I have seen this done with other communities as well, and it astounds me each time. I may not have the information necessary to counteract claims against other communities, but it is nevertheless startling to see the ease with which individuals speak ill of whole communities in this manner.
A snood is tznius, yes. I am happy I wear one. I suspect, though, that Hashem would rather us wear shaitels than be Motzei Shem Ra or speak Lashon Hara (when the information IS true) in this manner. One can bring even legitimate complaints without the Lashon Hara. Unless, of course, badmouthing a community was the point…
Well, lesschumras, we’ll just have to agree to disagree. Considering that I live here and you don’t, your comment is amusing.
All the best.
Absolutely agreed, except that I have my doubts this story took place at all, in the manner rendered.
I have lived in multiple neighborhoods in Lakewood over the years, and wear a snood most of the time. I have never experienced an incident resembling the original “story”. I understand the reactions of others’; I would say the same in the event I heard this regarding another community. But since I live here…The reaction of any one of my friends to this story is: Fabrication, perhaps to stir up the pot.
I know some people are looking for excitement, but being Motzei Shem Ra on a community is considered quite a serious aveirah.
Furthermore, in all of the neighborhoods I have lived in, I was not alone. A good many women, particularly those who do not work outside the home anymore, wear snoods while tending the children. Most wear a Sheitel when leaving the neighborhood, but I am far from the only one in snood gear when shopping. Additionally, in my current neighborhood, I do not know of a single woman who wears a shaitel on Shabbos afternoon while minding the children outside. Not one.
So no, I don’t believe your story as told. But it certainly precipitated a nice dialogue on snood/shaitel tznius.
“Hope you “both” are enjoying the YW coffee room, oh, and good luck on your marriage, you two deserve each other :)”
I assume that you’re just a teen; please find more appropriate ways to express yourself.
I think you might need to clarify this with yourself. If you wear sleeves that cover your elbow, and a member of another group of Yiddin are not careful with covering elbows (simplistic example, for illustrative purposes only), are you dressing differently, or “better”?
Are there some practices that are objectively “better”, such as adherence to halachah, or are all choices simply “different”? Not referring to the people practicing them, who may or may not be “better” than the next, which is not our place to judge.
No need to lord it over other folks, and discuss this, unless there is a possibility the individual will remediate the tznius infractions. Nevertheless, if you feel your dress is merely “different”, and not for the purpose of being in consonance with halachah, and if you feel tznius infractions are mere “differences” in dress, I think some reflection on your understanding of Judaism is in order. I mean this sincerely, and hope it is received in kind.
Naturally, I am ONLY referring to actual breaches in tznius dress; there is no need to discuss the specifics here.
I have been involved in a din torah regarding intellectual property. The psak was quite clear that one party may not copy or use any IP whatsoever, without permission from the author.
One specific example was IP found on a document, legitimately given to party B by party A. After leaving the co., party B was prohibited from using the IP to benefit his new place of employment.