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101. ZeesKite
     Aquilone Dolce

     oomis:

     OK back to square one (that's what 42 intended). So according to your (???) logic, goyim are more Jewish then Jews. They don't need the mitzvohs that Jews do! Yisraelim are more holy than Kohanim, they don't require those additional 'reminders'...

     Let me try to reiterate (again..)
     The little Chazal I've come across CLEARLY state the opposite. A person's Jewishness (halachakly) is evaluated by his/her Mitzvah OBLIGATION status. In the order a man says birchas hashachar. (goy, eved isha) - indeed that is the REASON for those brochos. A (real) Jewish woman, feeling a longing for this loss, submits her longing to HaShem's decision, and says Sheasani Kirtzono. Any other attempt to misinterpret, misconstrue its real meaning is just that.

     Posted 1 year ago #

102. onegoal
     Member

     Didn't Rashi's daughters wear tefilin?

     Posted 1 year ago #

103. zaidy78
     Member

     Is your left hand worse than you right hand? After all your right hand is stronger, you write with the right hand, so who needs left hands? Are left hands even part of the human body? Would you prefer two right hands and no left hands??

     Just as the left compliments the right hand, so to a woman compliments a man? Does that make women any less? Of course not! They just have a different task in life, equally (or even more) important, just different!!

     Posted 1 year ago #

104. charlie brown
     Member

     There are about 3.5 Billion women in the world and most are not Jewish so I think we can use a Rov to pasken that women are not Jewish.
     --Mod 42

     I don't get it. If most of the women in the world are not jewish, why do you need a rabbi to pasken that women aren't jewish?
     (just kidding. I'm not really THAT dense).

     Also, thanks for reviving this hilarious thread. I missed it the first time around.

     Popa,
     its been a while since you started a thread like this, what's pshat?

     Posted 1 year ago #

105. kapusta
     CR Queen - “Best of luck. Avoid roasted cabbage, don’t eat earwax, and look on the bright side of life!”

     I don't want to get involved in a debate now but I'll say this anyway.

     oomis, are you translating higher level as more Jewish? I don't know that anyone is more Jewish than someone else, either someone is or isn't. A higher level is definitely possible.

     ZK, did you get that comment at the super belittling and condescending post store?

     *kapusta*

     Posted 1 year ago #

106. midwesterner
     Member

     To Zaidy78: I don't mean to be the grammar police, but there is a world of difference between compliment and complement. I'm sure you meant the latter.

     I don't know much about women complimenting a man, most can probably live without it. But I do know that if a man forgets to compliment a woman, watch out!!

     Posted 1 year ago #

107. popa_bar_abba
     Incorrigible; semi-retarded; eccentric; perhaps a man; somewhere between mean and average; sometimes only a bit over the top; arbitrarily cynical.

     Popa,
     its been a while since you started a thread like this, what's pshat?

     All my threads are like this. You just don't even realize it anymore.

     Posted 1 year ago #

108. charlie brown
     Member

     All my threads are like this. You just don't even realize it anymore.

     they're all funny but something about this one was just a cut above!

     Posted 1 year ago #

109. charlie brown
     Member

     Popa,
     based on the logic of your OP it would seem that baby boys until they are a few years old and capable of doing mitzvos are not jewish either. Why don't they need geirus?

     Posted 1 year ago #

110. OneOfMany
     The Impressively Arbitrary Nymphadora the Purple ^_^

     How many of the 613 can ANY of us actually keep, anyway? Wouldn't that make all Jews not-Jewish?

     Posted 1 year ago #

111. snjn
     Member

     News flash: Being Jewish does not depend on some external mitzvas like tefilin and tzitzit. Being jewish is based on having a jewish neshama by being born to a jewish mother or converting. When the yidden stood at Har Sinai and accepted the Torah, they became Jews, men and women alike. All their descendants are jewish provided they hadn't married a non jewish woman.
     In any case, this topic, like so many others in the coffee room is just looking for another way to demean women, as them being "less than". That's the real obsession here.

     Posted 1 year ago #

112. ZeesKite
     Aquilone Dolce

     snjn: I wouldn't call mitzvohs 'external'. No, they're what in fact makes us Jewish. Remember where we became Jews? Yeah, the place we said נעשה ונשמע. Where HaShem said ועתה אם שמוע תשמעו בקולי. That was when HaShem "flashed us His news".

     Furthermore, a bit of reading Chazal indeed reveal to us that it's as I wrote.

     This topic was a 'troll' not to demean any gender. The OP could be a woman for all I know.

     Posted 1 year ago #

113. popa_bar_abba
     Incorrigible; semi-retarded; eccentric; perhaps a man; somewhere between mean and average; sometimes only a bit over the top; arbitrarily cynical.

     News flash: Being Jewish does not depend on some external mitzvas like tefilin and tzitzit.

     As zeeskite rightly pointed out, mitzvos are not external. Maybe that is why you have trouble understanding this.

     Being jewish is based on having a jewish neshama by being born to a jewish mother or converting.

     What is a Jewish mother? Aren't all mothers women? I don't know what you are talking about.

     based on the logic of your OP it would seem that baby boys until they are a few years old and capable of doing mitzvos are not jewish either. Why don't they need geirus?

     Because they have a bris.

     Posted 1 year ago #

114. binahyeseira
     Too cool to ask for a new subtitle

     Barack Obama and Bill Clinton are men.

     Barack Obama and Bill Clinton are not Jewish.

     Therefore, men are not Jewish.

     Simple logic!

     Posted 1 year ago #

115. binahyeseira
     Too cool to ask for a new subtitle

     actually, i'd like to point out the fact that women are actually on a higher level than men. Every day of the first 6 days Hashem created creatures that were on a higher level than the days before. On the 6th day after creating everything else Hashem created man. everything before that was created for the purpose of serving man.
     ...drumroll....for the important part....
     women were created AFTER men -
     obviously, man was put there first to serve women.
     as mod. 42 says, "simple logic"

     Posted 1 year ago #

116. snjn
     Member

     What I meant by "external" mitzvah was simply that the examples he gave were only of mitzvahs that are obvious for all to see when they are kept. Mitvas like Shabbos, kashrus, taharas hamishpacha, believing in Hashem, mitzvos bain adam lachavairo, brochos, etc. where women are equally michuyav. In fact, there are SEVEN mitzvos that women are not mechuyav in and the OP chose to harp on those. That gives a cursory glance at the obvious (external) mitzvos of men and says those are conditions of being a Jew.

     Posted 1 year ago #

117. oomis
     Member

     "oomis, are you translating higher level as more Jewish? I don't know that anyone is more Jewish than someone else, either someone is or isn't. A higher level is definitely possible. "

     Nope. I don't. But based on the troll thinking around here, it seems some men apparently think that way about Jewish women. Just because someone does more mitzvos or certain mitzvos not incumbernt on someone else, does not make them "more" Jewish. But if the guys want to go that route, I have to point out that Jewish women do not need to do those mitzvos in order to be on that same high madreiga, because women are spiritually stronger to begin with. :)

     Posted 1 year ago #

118. midwesterner
     Member

     Bina Yeseira: Does that mean that a pair of plyers is more choshuv than even a woman?

     Posted 1 year ago #

119. midwesterner
     Member

     One could also say, according to the opinion that "Dyo partuzufin bara b'Adam" that man was indeed the final creation, and the woman was removed from him. Cleansing him, if you will.

     Posted 1 year ago #

120. midwesterner
     Member

     And to snjn: Sometimes Popa's trolling is very subtle and hard to detect. But this thread has it right there in the title!! (At least the recently modified title.)

     Posted 1 year ago #

121. ZeesKite
     Aquilone Dolce

     snjn:
     Once again, women are Mechuyav in ALL mitzvhos be it obvious or not, external or not. They're exempt , as all know, from "mitzvos assay shehazman gerama", time-dependent positive commandments, internal or external, obvious or not. That is THE SOLE difference.

     I've been reading about this "hidden/private mitzvohs" thing here time and again, it's just nonsense. (or someone's erroneous 'internal' whim)

     Posted 1 year ago #

122. charlie brown
     Member

     Because they have a bris.

     The bris was while they were still goyim. How does that help them become a ger later on?

     Posted 1 year ago #

123. popa_bar_abba
     Incorrigible; semi-retarded; eccentric; perhaps a man; somewhere between mean and average; sometimes only a bit over the top; arbitrarily cynical.

     Popa,
     its been a while since you started a thread like this, what's pshat?

     Happy now?

     Posted 1 year ago #

124. coffee addict
     Once killed a Troll with his bare hands

     maybe women become Jewish when they get married (hence the name Kiddushin) (It could answer up how it's not boel aramis)

     Posted 1 year ago #

125. charlie brown
     Member

     Happy now?

     ha! I posted on one of the threads that you started tonight that the real Popa threads are back! I hadn't seen this at the time.

     Posted 1 year ago #

126. A Sheep without a Spleen
     Member

     So like most of you I hope, my first thought on seeing this thread was, "That's funny, I know they act like goyim and don't follow the Torah and do the mitzvos like us, but of course they're jewish." However, recently, my wife who's doing Daf HaSha'ah showed me a Tosfos in Qiddushin who quotes a gemara in Sotah that clearly holds they're not. [The Tosfos itself was kinda interesting till I realized I might be a gayr] Those who follow the Rambam will of course throw this out with the baby but for the rest of us.

     The Gemara (Sotah 37b [Of course I didn't look it up] says that at Har Sinai the Bnei Yisrael Took on 603,550 covenants as guarantors for each other. Tosfos derives from this that they did not become guarantors for the Eirev Rav. The obvious next step is that they also did not become guarantors for the women. ודוק ותמצא קל.

     Posted 8 months ago #

127. WIY
     Member

     Popa
     You are due for another one of these brilliant threads. :-)

     Posted 8 months ago #

128. interjection
     Member

     A Sheep: maybe the husbands and fathers were motzei their women

     Posted 8 months ago #

129. DaasYochid
     a singular mind

     Since we're reviving Popa classics...

     Posted 5 months ago #

130. popa_bar_abba
     Incorrigible; semi-retarded; eccentric; perhaps a man; somewhere between mean and average; sometimes only a bit over the top; arbitrarily cynical.

     We are always reviving Popa classics

     Posted 5 months ago #

131. DaasYochid
     a singular mind

     And changing the titles back to the originals?

     Posted 5 months ago #

132. popa_bar_abba
     Incorrigible; semi-retarded; eccentric; perhaps a man; somewhere between mean and average; sometimes only a bit over the top; arbitrarily cynical.

     not always that part

     Posted 5 months ago #

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