FAST APPROACHING: The End of Secularism in Israel

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  • #1434533

    Rabbi of Crawley
    Participant

    It is a fact that by the year 2030 , 60 percent of Israeli Jews will be religious due to the high birth rate of religious people

    That figure is likely to be increased significantly when we take into account all the olim ( who are mostly religious) , the increasing amount of hozrim btshuvah and the continued yeridah of tens of thousands of secular israelis, mostly from the center of the country who are looking for better job opportunities and more secular environment abroad.

    The war in the future won’t be whether to allow stadiums or stores to open on shabbat, it will be more like allowing non emergency vehicles on the road, as most cities will likely have zero access to vehicles on shabbat

    Netanyahu better put his kippah on soon…

    #1438306

    Rabbi of Crawley
    Participant

    I Personally can notice a difference each time I travel to Erets Yisrael, I see more religion everywhere baruch hashem.

    herzliya has begun to feel like a shtikel bnei berak and the knesset has begun to look like a religious conference center.

    the supreme court, though has a long,long ,supreme i should say, way to go

    #1438344

    akuperma
    Participant

    However the entire Israeli economy, military and legal system are controlled by seculars. More importantly, the “kippah” crowd is almost as antagonistic to the hareidim, and the largest growth is among the hareidim. The important number is the relationship of “kippahs” to secular among the non-hareidi crowd. Also remember that in Israeli elections, goyim can vote at present the goyim support the hilonim.

    So don’t hold your breath.

    #1438372

    Rabbi of Crawley
    Participant

    I know that one day the knesset will become a kollel and during the break times , there will be votes and legislation (halachic)

    #1438511

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    How is a prediction a fact?

    #1438535

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    Lately I saw a video by the Bible codes person where he found in the codes that zionism will end this year. Also I thought it was fascinating, he said that the Rebbe told Netanyahu that he will pass the sharvit over to Moshiach! Could be sooner than we think…

    #1438538

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Achashverosh’ sharvit?

    #1438545

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    The 60 % religious includes dati-Leumi who are getting closer to the Chilonim (And the Chilonim are getting closer to the Dati-Leumi) but both are going farther away from the Charedim

    It was no accident that Yesh Atid and HaBayit Hayehudi were able to be in the government together.

    In fact HaBayit Hayehudi the Dati Leumi party is headed by Nafatli Bennet who is not relgious and Ayelet Shaked who is also not relgious

    #1438565

    Rabbi of Crawley
    Participant

    the majority of religious in israel are charedi

    IF HALF OF THE CHAREDIM IN THE USA WOULD DO ALIYAH NOW WE WOULD NOT HAVE TO WAIT 20 YEARS TO GET TO 60 PERCENT, IT WOULD HAPPEN IMMEDIATELY

    Please stop yelling

    #1438574

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Also in Israel there are Chardal, which somewhat looks like Charedi, but their thinking is more Dati-Leumi meaning they are very religious , but also very zionistic

    #1438611

    Rabbi of Crawley
    Participant

    I am sorry for yelling. I just get so excited , every time i think about a israel having a majority of real , not fake jews

    #1438606

    yichusdik
    Participant

    RoC, when you brought this topic up in July 2016, I cited three studies and copious statistics from several sources including the ICBS that contraindicated your premise. Though a critique from Joseph convinced me to clarify one element of my conclusions (thank you Joseph) there was no material argument or evidence by any of the posters that challenged the facts. You even thanked me for bringing that info into the discussion, to quote you: “You certainly have contributed some quality analysis on this topic you deserve a blessing from the rabbi of crawley!”

    So, RoC, what has changed? Is there new evidence that challenges the statistics?

    #1438636

    jakob
    Participant

    ROC

    Have you made aliya yet? or are you currently living in Israel? if the answer is no then please don’t scream until after you make aliya first

    #1438699

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    If the majority of Jews in Israel are Charedi, then they will have to work and go to the Army. They wont be able to tax the non chreadi enough to pay the stipends and go to the Army

    #1438709

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    With the very high OTD rates both in boys and girls in israel your predictions are way off because the unfortunately the numbers are growing daily. The OTD epidemic is outgrowing the in coming BT’s

    #1438714

    Rabbi of Crawley
    Participant

    Yichusdik: i Will shortly release my response statement for you

    Jakob: I love eretz yisrael with my heart and wish i could live there , but when there is an undemocratic, zionist, anti torah, government there I find it very big nisayon, which I will one day be able to handle

    #1438803

    Rabbi of Crawley
    Participant

    Yichusdik:

    The Rabbi of Crawley has reviewed the response OF Yichusdik on the “Within the next 10 years, Israel Will be mostly religious” and has released a statement

    ” I have shown appreciation for the analysis you have supplied and I appreciate it as your valued opinion, however I nevertheless remain firm in my stance on this topic.
    The writer must be aware that the Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics is not an accurate source of information on this matter for two reasons.
    1) They are naturally biased against there Zionist dream turning into a religious catastrophe, so they refuse to acknowledge the burning truth and therefore statistics are significantly warped.
    2) They consider all of the approximately million russians as Jewish, even though most are not, which means that the Chareidi percentage of the Jewish population is significantly higher.
    Also the use of Studies and Research Analyses are innacurate as they are merely predictions, and therefore do not paint a true picture of what’s happening.

    A final point that must be made is that the Haredi leadership in Israel is weak and is incredibly limited in representation and power in relation to it’s size and this applies to the media, general voice that the Haredim have in their country, similar to a silent majority”.

    The rabbi thanks the petitioner and is happy to respond further

    #1438822

    yichusdik
    Participant

    SO, RoC, in the face of factual statistical evidence from multiple sources well beyond the ICBS you present…opinions?

    That’s a well reasoned argument.

    Now, if you had said, it is my HOPE and BELIEF that Israel will shed its secular character in the near future, I would have no argument with you. I would likely applaud you. But to assert a “fact” and then ignore or dismiss evidence? Maybe its just me, but I have a hard time understanding your confidence.

    #1438825

    Avi K
    Participant

    ROC,

    1. Please produce evidence for your contentions. If you do not you will be convicted of hotzaat shem ra and sentenced to obtain forgiveness.

    2. Even if you are correct, if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem.

    3. I looked up Crawley on Google. It does not seem to be a particularly Jewish community. In fact there is only one “shul”, which is called “Liberal”. Am I correct in presuming that that is the UK version of Reform? If so, how do you justify living there rather than in Israel,

    #1438880

    akuperma
    Participant

    For the seculars to lose control the following would have to happen. One is an end to the war since with the war going on the religious zionists will stay allied with the secular zionists and alienated from the hareidim. One possibility would be for the hareidim to become more involved politically and to propose a solution acceptable to hareidim and religious zionists as well as the Arabs, but not to secular zionists (e.g. Israel becomes an autonomous non-state in a larger Islamic state, Jews can live anywhere in Eretz Yisrael, Israel agrees that its laws will differ from Islamic law only when halacha differs from Islamic law, Arabic replaces English as the de facto second language). However as long as there is war going on, the alliance of the secular Jews with the religious zionists will continue.

    #1438882

    Joseph
    Participant

    RoC is the Chabad shliach for Crawley.

    #1438903

    kitov
    Participant

    ROC , don’t blame the cheradim of USA for not moving to isreal.
    If the cheradim leadership will move first then the followers will follow them.
    But as long as the leadership stays put
    The followers will stick here like glue.

    #1438898

    Rabbi of Crawley
    Participant

    He has no connection to chabad , however three of The rabbi’s Children , Noam, Ofer and Zalmy all learn through the chabad system, as their father has his rabbinical duties

    #1438897

    Rabbi of Crawley
    Participant

    The RoC is the “Permanent representative of non-fake judasims to West Sussex”

    #1438892

    Rabbi of Crawley
    Participant

    The Rabbi sent me his official response to Avi K, which he asked me to post

    1) “As I mentioned earlier, I remain firm in my stance on this topic. This stance is based in conscience, aspirations and personal experiences. Having lived in Eretz Yisrael for some time and experiencing the flowering of the Jewish people as well as having been through secuar Israel, I am as neutral as one can get on this issue.”

    2) “Liberal Judaism is not reform, It is a more tolerant, diverse and secular version than reform, however since they convert anyone and marry out, I would not daven there even if they believed in the 13 principles. Although admittedly, there is no heter for one to live In chutz laaretz other than parnassah and shidduch , the Proximity of Crawley to the beautiful South Downs National park makes it difficult for me to leave”

    #1439041

    Non-religious or sinning (to whatever extent) Jews are not “fake.”

    (Also, I doubt the Israeli authorities would approve more than a
    certain number of people immigrating within a certain time period.)

    #1439254

    Rabbi of Crawley
    Participant

    the rabbi has asked me to release his official statement for rand0m3x

    A fake Jew is someone who deliberately violates one or more of the commandments and identifies himself as a Jew. The Chief Rabbi of Crawley condemns such congregrants with utmost excitement.”

    #1439259

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    With the very high OTD rates both in boys and girls in israel your predictions are way off because the unfortunately the numbers are growing daily. The OTD epidemic is outgrowing the in coming BT’s..

    #1439607

    JJ2020
    Participant

    It’s not a fact it’s assuming that current trends will continue until there are no more secular Jews. Maybe the growth rate will slow? Who knows what will be in the future? How about trends like people keeping “half Shabbos”? Who knows what changes will come in the future? Social change, tech changes, war, politics.

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