For PF to Vicariously Rant Endlessly About the Over-Emphasis of Iyun through PAA

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  • #1045880

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    So for anyone who is still reading this, I think it’s time for another updated list:

    Shabbos 63a with Rashi

    Eruvin 48a with Rashi

    Sanhedrin 42a with Rashi

    Avodah Zara 19a with Rashi

    Avodah Zara 19a with Rashi (there are two different gemaras on 19a which I quoted)

    Medrash Mishlei 10

    Orchos Tzadikim Shaar Hatorah

    Maharal Tiferes Yisroel Perek 56

    Maharal Nesivos Olam Nesiv Hatorah Perek 5

    Maharal Chiddushei Aggados Sanhedrin

    Maharal Gur Aryeh Parshas Vaeschanan

    Maharsha Bava Metzia 85a

    Shelah Maseches Shavuos 22, 25-35

    Vavei Ha’amudim 5:14

    Maadnei Yom Tov Hakdama

    Kli Yakar Amudei Shesh Amud Hatorah

    Chavos Yair siman 124

    Yaavetz

    Sifsei Yeshanim

    Chayei Adam Hakdama Acharona

    Pri Megadim

    Even Shlaima 8:2

    He’aros ??

    Even Shlaima 8:7

    Shulchan Aruch Harav Hilchos Talmud Torah 2:1

    Pele Yoetz Asupa

    Pele Yoetz Girsa

    Pele Yoetz Yesod

    Ohr Yisrael Iggeres 27

    Dor Revii Hakdama

    Chofetz Chaim Likutei Amarim perek 4

    Chofetz Chaim Likutei Amarim perek 5

    Lev Aryeh hakdama

    Seridei Eish letter

    Shu”t Mishneh Halachos 8:247

    Shevet Halevi 2:57

    R’ Eliyahu Feinstein

    R’ Baruch Ber Leibowitz

    R’ Yaakov Kamenetsky

    R’ Moshe Feinstein

    R’ Elazar Menacham Man Shach

    R’ Berel Soloveitchik

    R’ Moshe Chevroni

    R’Aharon Yehuda Leib Shteinman

    R’ Michel Yehuda Lefkowitz

    R’ Yosef Shalom Elyashiv

    #1045881

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Toldos Adam Perek 3:

    ??? ???? ????? ????? ????? ???? ??? ??? ?????? ??????? ???? ????? ????? ??”? ?”? ???? ??????? ??’ ??”? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ??? ??????? ?? ???? ??????? ????? ????? ???? ????? ????? ??????? ??? ?? ????? ?? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ????? ??????? ???? ???? ????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ?? ?? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ???? ?? ???? ??? ???? ??? ??? ????? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ????? ??? ?? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ??????

    #1045882

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Toldos Adam Perek 3 continued:

    ??? ??? ????? ??? ???? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ?? ??? ??????? ???? ???? ??”? ???? ????? ??????? ?????? ??????? ???? ??? ???? ?? ???? ????? ????? ????? ?? ??? ??? ???? ???? ???? ????? ????? ??????? ??? ??? ???? ????? ?? ?? ???????? ??? ???? ???? ?? ??? ?? ???? ???? ?”? ????? ???? ??? ???? ???’ ???”?

    #1045883

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Toldos Adam Perek 3 continued:

    ??? ?? ???? ?? ??? ???? ?? ????? ?? ???? ??????? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ???? ???? ??? ???? ????? ??? ?? ??? ?? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???? ??”? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ????? ??? ?? ????? ????? ??????? ?? ?? ??? ?????? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ???? ???? ??? ???????? ????? ??????? ???? ????? ????? ???? ???? ??? ??????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ?? ??? ??? ??? ???? ??????? ????? ???? ?? ????

    #1045884

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Toldos Adam Perek 3 continued:

    ???? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ?????? ??”? ?????? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ??????? ?????? ????? ??????? ?? ??? ??????? ?????? ???’ ??? ???? ???? ???? ?? ?? ????? ?? ?? ?????? ?? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ???? ???? ?? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? ???? ????? ?? ??? ?????? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ????? ?? ?? ?????? ??????? ?? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ?? ?? ????? ?? ????? ??? ???? ?? ???? ?? ??? ????? ???? ???? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ?? ?? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ?? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ??????? ????? ????? ????? ????? ????? ???? ???????? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ?? ?????? ?? ??? ???? ???? ??? ??? ???? ??? ???? ?? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ???? ?? ?????? ?? ???? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ??? ??”? ????? ????? ?? ??????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ???? ?? ???? ???? ?? ???? ????? ????? ?? ???? ??? ??? ???? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ?? ??????? ??? ?????? ????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ??? ???? ???? ???? ????? ???? ??????

    #1045885

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    ???? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ????? ??????? ??????? ?? ??? ???? ??? ?? ???? ?? ???? ????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ???? ???????? ???? ??? ????? ??? ???? ???????? ???? ???? ?? ???? ?? ???? ?? ?? ???? ??????? ???? ??? ???? ??? ???? ??? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ?? ??? ????? ????? ??????? ?????? ????? ????? ???????

    #1045886

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    ?? ?????? ?? ??? ???? ???? ?? ???? ??? ??? ???? ??? ???? ???? ????? ???? ?? ??? (?????? ????”? ??’ ??”?) ??”? ????? ???? ??? ???? ??”? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ??????? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ?????? ?? ??? ?? ???? ??? ??? ?????? ??????? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ????? ??????? ??? ??? ???? ????? ?? ??? ?????? ??? ??????? ??????? ???? ?????? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ???? ??? ?? ?? ??? ?? ?? ???? ?? ????? ???????? ????? ??? ??????? ???? ?????? ?? ?????? ????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ????? ??????? ???? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ?????

    ?? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ?????? ????? ????????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ????? ???? ??”? ??? ?? ?? ???? ?? ???? ?”?

    #1045887

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    The last two posts are also continued from Toldos Adam Perek 3

    #1045888

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Toldos Adam Perek 3 continued:

    ?????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ??? ??????? ???? ???? ??? ????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ??????? ??? ???? ??? ?? ???? ??? ???? ????? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ?????? ?? ??????? ?????? ??????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ????? ?? ???? ??? ??? ?? ??? ?? ???’ ??? ??? ?????? ??? ?????? ?????? ????? ??????? ???? ?????? ??? ??? ????? ?? ?????? ??? ?? ???? ?? ??? ????

    #1045889

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    ???? ????? ??? ???? ???? ????? ?? ??? ???? ???? ???? ????? ???? ??? ??? ????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?? ?? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ?? ??? ????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ??? ????? ????? ???’ ??? ???? ??? ?????? ??????? ??? ???’ ??? ?’ ???? ??? ??? ???? ?? ???? ???? ?????? ?????? ?????? ?????? [??? ??? ?’ ???? ???? ????] (?? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???????) ?? ????? ??? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ?????? ????? ??? ??? ?’ ???? ???? ???? ??? ??? ???? ???? ?? ??? ????? ???’ ??? ?? ????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ????? ??”? ????? ???????? ??????? ??”? ??? ??? ???? ??? ?? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ??

    ????? ????? ??? ?? ??? ??? ??? ?? ?? ?????? ???? ???? ??”? ????? ???? ?? ?? ???? ?’ ??? ?? ??? ???? ????? ???? ?? ???? ????? ?? ???? ???? ??”? ?? ????? ??????? ???? ???

    #1045890

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    The last quote and this one are further along in Toldos Adam Perek 3:

    ?”? ???? ??? ???? ?? ???? ???? ????? ?? ??? ???? ???? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ??? ????? ????? ??????? ??????? ??”? ???? ???? ?? ????? ?? ?? ??? ?? ??? ????? ?? ????? ??? ?? ??? ???? ??? ???”? ???? ???? ???? ?? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ??? ??? ???? ?? ??? ???? ????? ?? ??? ???? ????? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ???’ ??????? ?????? ?? ??? ???? ??????? ???? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ??????? ??????? ???? ????? ????? ?? ??? ???? ????? ??????? ????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???”? ??? ????? ????? ?? ????? ??? ????? ????? ?? ?? ?? ???? ????? ?? ?????? ?????? ???? ?????

    ??????? ?????? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ?? ????? ?? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ?? ??? ???? ??? ??? ????? ?? ????? ????? ??????? [??? ?? ?????? ??”? ?? ???? ???? ?????] ?? ?? ????? ????? ????? ????????

    #1045891

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Continued:

    ???? ???? ????? ?? ?? ??? ??? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?? ???? ?????? ???

    ????? ??? ?? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ????? ???? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ??????? ??????? ????? ?? ???? ??????

    #1045892

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Continued:

    ??? ?? ?????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ?’ ???? ??? ????? ??? ????? ??? ???? ???? ???? ?? ??? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ?????? ???? ????? (??? ????? ????? ??”?) ?????? ???? ??? ????? ???? ????? ?? ??? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ?????? ???? ??? ????? ?? ??? ???? ??? ???? ???? ???? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ??????? ????? ?????? ?????? ???? ????? ??”? ???? ???? ?? ??? ?? [???? ?? ???? ???? ?? ??? ???? ???? ??? ??? ??] ??? ?? ????? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ??”? ?????? ?????? ?? ??? ???? ??? ????? ???? ????? ????? ??? ??? ?”?

    #1045893

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Continued:

    ??? ????? ????? ????? ?? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ???????? ???? ?? ?????? ??”? ??? ???? ????? ?? ?”? ?? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ?”? ????? ????? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ????? ???? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ?? ?? ??? ????? ?? ?”? ?? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ??? ??”? ???? ???? ???? ??”? ?????? ?? ??? ???? ????? ??? ??? ???? ????? ?? ????? ???? ???? ?? ??? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ??? ???? ??? ????? ???”? ?”? ????? ??????? ?????? ???? ????? ?????? ?????? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ????????? ????? ????? ??????? ???

    ?????? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ???”? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ????? ????”? ?????? ???? ??? ????? ?? ????? ??????

    #1045894

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Binyan Ariel Parshas Haazinu:

    ??? ???? ?????: ??? ???? ????? ??? ???? ?? ??? ???? ???? ?? ???

    ???? ????? ???????? ????? ????? ???? ???? ?? ??? ????? ???? ??????? ????? ????? ????? ?? ???? ????? ???? ??? ??????? ???

    ????? ??? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ???????? ????? ?? ???? ??? ?? ??????? ??? ?? ???? ?? ??? ??? ???? ????? ??”? ????? ????”? ????? ??’ ??? ??????? ???? ??? ????? ????? ???? ??? ???? ??”? ????’ ???’ ???? ?? ??’ ?”? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ???? ???”? ???? ?????? ?”? ????? ?? ?? ?? ????? ????? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ????? ??? ????? ?”? ???? ????? ?????? ?? ???’ ??? ???? ???? ?? ??? ???? ??????? ??? ????? ?????? ??????? ????? ????? ??? ???? ??? ?? ???? ?? ????? ????? ??? ?? ???? ??? ????? ????? ???????? ?? ?”? ?”? ??? ????? ?????? ????? ??’ ??? ???? ??? ???????? ????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ??

    #1045895

    In your next list, include the two gemorrahs in brachos— has veachar kach kesses(very explicit rashi there i think i remember) and sinay kodem

    #1045896

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    “In your next list, include the two gemorrahs in brachos— has veachar kach kesses(very explicit rashi there i think i remember) and sinay kodem”

    I didn’t quote the first gemara because I already had quoted a Rashi who quoted that Gemara so it would be cheap to then quote the gemara. Similarly I already mentioned sinai vs. oker harim and that it is a machlokes between the Pri Megadim and R’ Shlomo Kluger if it still applies nowadays with the proliferation of seforim.

    #1045897

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Tzava’ah of the Shelah’s son R’ Sheftel ??? ??:

    ??? ?????? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ????? ?? ??????? ?????? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ????????? ????? ???? ???? ??? ???? ??? ????? ?? ???? ??? ??????? ????? ?? ????? ??? ?? ??? ??? ??? ????? ????? ???? ?? ????? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ????? ???? ????? ?? ????? ?? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ?? ??? ?? ???

    #1045898

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    continued:

    ?????? ???”? ?????? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ??????? ??? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ?????? ??? ?? ?? ??????? ??? ?????? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ???? ????? ??? ???? ??? ?? ??????? ??? ???? ???”? ???? ????”? ?????? ?????? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ??”? ???? ???? ?? ????? ????? ??? ????? ??? ???”? ????? ???? ????? ?? ?????? ????? ???? ?????? ?????? ????? ?? ?? ???? ??? ????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ?? ???????? ??????? ?? ???? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ????? ?? ????????

    #1045899

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    continued:

    ????? ??? ??? ?????? ????? ?????? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ???? ???? ??? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ????? ???? ????? ???? ?”? ????? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ?? ??? ?????? ?????? ???? ???? ??? ??? (????) [????] ???? ??? ???? ??????? ?????? ???? ?? ?? ??? ?????? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ???

    #1045900

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Tzava’ah of the Shelah’s son R’ Sheftel ??? ??:

    ???? ???? ???? ??? ????? ???? ????? ???”? ??????? ?? ????? ??????? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ????? ????? ???? ???? ????? ??????? ????? ??? ??? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ?? ???? ?? ????? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ??????? ??????? ????? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ??? ?”? ??”? ??? ????? ???? ??”? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?”? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ?????? ??? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ?”? ?????? ???? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ????? ?? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ??’ ???? ????? ???? ???’ ????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ????? ???”? ??? ?????

    #1045901

    Sam2
    Participant

    PAA: So what’s your secret for all of these Mareh Mekomos? I’m guessing there’s an extended series of Seforim Blog articles on this topic?

    #1045902

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Although I do read seforim blog, I haven’t seen any articles there specifically on this topic. The only sources that I posted here that I have seen on seforim blog are the Lev Aryeh and the letter from the Seridei Eish.

    #1045903

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Correction:

    I did not see those two sources on seforim blog. I saw them in an article by Dr. Marc Shapiro.

    #1045904

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    ????? ???? ??? ??

    ???? ????? ?? ??? ?”? ?????? ????? ???? ?? ??? ?????? ?????? ??

    ????? ?????? ?”? ????? ??? ????? ???”? ??? ??? ??? ???? ????? ????? ?? ??? ??? ???? ???? ??? ??? ???? ???? ?? ????? ????? ??????

    ????? ??? ????? ????? ?? ?????? ?????? ???? ???? ??? ??? ??? ??? ????? ????? ?? ?? ?? ???? ???? ????? ??????? ????? ???”? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ??????? ???? ?????? ?????? ????? ??? ???? ?????? ????? ??????? ????? ???? ????? ???? ?? ???? ?????? ???”? ??? ??? ??? ???????? ???? ????? ???

    ????? ??? ???? ?? ??? ???? ??? ???? ???? ??? ??? ???? ????? ??????? ??? ????? ?? ???? ??? ????? ????? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ????? ??? ?????? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???”? ??????? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ??????? ???? ?? ??? ?? ??? ?? ?? ??? ?”? ???? ????? ????? ??? ????? ??? ???? ???? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ???? ??? ???? ????”? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ?? ???? ???? ?? ????? ?? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ??????? ??????? ?? ?? ???? ????? ???? ????? ????? ???? ?? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ?? ??? ?????? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ??? ??? ???? ?? ???? ???? ???? ??? ??? ???? ??? ???? ?? ???? ????? ???”? ??? ???? ???”? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ????? ???? ????? ??? ???? ??????? ???? ???? ??????? ???? ???? ????? ??”? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ??? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ???? ????

    #1045905

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    ???? ???? ??? ?

    ?????? ????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ??? ?? ????? ???? ?????? ?????? ?????? ????? ??????? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ??? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ?????? ????? ???? ?? ??? ????? ??????? ???????? ????? ????? ???”? ????? ?? ??????? ?? ???? ??? ?? ???????? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ?????? ?????? ????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ??? ??? ????? ?”?

    #1045906

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Ok I just noticed that someone added endlessly into the title. I may set a record for the most title changes.

    Unlikely to change again. I’ve hit the character limit. 🙂 -100

    #1045907

    Sam2
    Participant

    100: A title change does not necessarily have to add words.

    #1045908

    I didn’t say it’s impossible. 🙂

    #1045910

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    It’s ok, I like the title changes. It adds an element of surprise.

    #1045911

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Yalkut Hagershoni Chagiga 5a:

    ???? ???”? ???? ????? ?? ?? ????? ????? ????? ????? ???? ??? ?? ??”? ?? ????? ????? ????? ???’ ????? ????”? ??”? ??? ??”? ???’ ?? ??? ??? ????’ ?????? ??”? ????? ?? ?? ?????? ???? ??”? ?”? ???”? ???”? ??’ ?”? ????? ????? ????? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ?? ???? ???”? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ????? ??? ??????? ????? ????? ?”? ??? ???? ????? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ????? ?????”? ?????? ???????? ???? ????? ??? ????? ?? ????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ??? ??’ ??? ????? ?? ??’ ????’ ????? ??? ??”? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ??? ????? ??”? ????? ???”? ?? ?? ??”? ?? ????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ???? ?? ???? ?????”? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ??? ????? ??”?

    #1045912

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    When I first started quoting sources, I wasn’t going in any particular order. Therefore it happened that there were a couple of Gemaros which were quoted by some of the sources which I had already posted and therefore I didn’t bother quoting the Gemaros themselves afterwards. But since some people didn’t realize this and since I am compiling a list, I will now quote those Gemaros and then I can add them to the next list.

    Berachos 63b:

    ??? ??? ???? ???? ????? ?? ???? ?? ??? ????? ???? ??? ????? ????? ??? ???? ???? ?? ????

    Rashi there:

    ?? ???? ?? ??? ???? ??? ???? ??? ???? ????? ??????? ?? ???? ????? ???? ??? ?? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ?? ????? ????? ???? ?? ??? ?? ?????? ???? ?????? ?? ?????? ??

    Horayos 14a (as well as in other places):

    ??? ??? ????? ????? ?? ??? ????? ?? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ???? ???? ??? ??? ???? ???? ???? ?? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ???? ?? ??? ?????? ???? ????

    #1045913

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Panim Yafos Genesis 22:1

    ???? ??? ?????? ???? ???’ ???? ????? ?????? ??????? ????? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ?????? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ???”? [??????? ????? ?”? ?”?] ???? ?????? ????? ????? ???? ?? ????? ???? ?? ??? ???’ ?????? ?????? ??? ????? ??”? [??? ?? ?] ???? ????? [???????] ????? ???? ????? [?????] ??? ???”? ?? ???? ?? ?? ???? ???? ???? ????? ??? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ??????? ????? ??? ?’ ????? ???? ????? ??? ????? ???? ????? ??????? ?????? [????? ???, ??] ??????? ????? ???? ???”? ???? ?? ???”? ????? ???? ???? ??? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ?? ????? ????? ??? ???”? [??? ?? ?] ?????? ????? ???? ?????? ????? ??? [????? ?? ?] ???? ???? ?? ???”? ??? ??? ????? ?????? ????? ???? ??? ???? ????? ??”? ????? [??”? ?, ??] ????? ??????? ????? ??????? ?????? ???? ?????? ???”? ???????? ????? ???? ??? ??? ?????? ?? ????? ????? ????? ??????? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ??? ?? ???? ???? ?????

    #1045914

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Kesubos 50a:

    ??? ??? ??? ?? ??? ????? ?? ???? ???? ??? ??? ?? ????? ?? ??? ???? ???? ??? ?????

    (This is more of an implication from the lashon of “??? ??? ?????” than an explicit source.

    #1045915

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    ????? ????? Pesicha:

    ???? ????? ??? ????? ???? ?? ?????? ????? ??? ?????? ?????? ??? ???? ???? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ????? ?????? ?? ????? ????? ??????? ???? ?”? ?? ?”? ???? ?? ????? ????? ????’ ??”? ????? ???? ????? ?? ??? ?”? ??? ??? ???? ??? ???? ????’ ????? ???? ??? ?? ????? ???? ?????? ?’ ???? ??????? ???? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ????? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ???? ????’ ??? ???? ????? ??? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ????? ?? ???? ????? ????? ??? ?? ??? ?? ????? ??????? ????? ?? ??? ???? ????? ????? ?????’ ????’ ?????’ ????? ??????? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ???? ??? ??? ????? ??? ???? ??????’ ???? ?????? ??????’ ??? ????? ?? ???? ??? ?’ ??????’ ??? ???? ?????’ ???? ??? ????? ???? ?? ????’ ??? ??????

    continued in next post…

    #1045916

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Continued from previous post:

    ???? ?????’ ???? ?’ ???? ????’ ??????’ ????? ??? ???? ?????? ?????? ??? ????? ?? ???? ?? ??? ?? ???? ???? ????? ????? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ????? ???? ?? ?? ??? ?????? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ????? ???? ???? ?? ?? ????? ?? ???? ???? ????? ?? ????? ????? ???? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ????? ?? ?? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ???? ??? ??? ?? ???? ?”? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ??????? ???? ??????? ???? ??????? ????? ?? ???? ???? ??? ????? ???????’ ???? ??? ?? ??? ????? ????? ??????’ ????? ???????’ ???? ??? ?? ??? ????? ????? ??????’ ????? ????’ ????? ??? ?????’ ?????? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ?? ???? ??? ????? ??? ????? ????? ?? ????? ???? ????? ????? ???? ?? ????? ??????

    Continued in next post…

    #1045917

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Continued from previous post:

    ??? ?? ?????? ??? ?????? ?????? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ??????? ??”? ???? ???’ ???? ???? ????? ???’ ???? ?????’ ???? ????? ????’ ???? ??? ???? ????? ??’ ??? ????”? ????? ??? ??? ???? ??? ?? ????? ???? ?? ??? ??????? ???? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ????? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ???? ?? ????? ??? ???? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ?????? ??? ?????? ?????? ??????’ ??”? ?? ???? ??? ????? ?? ????? ?????? ????? ?????? ??? ??? ?????? ????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ??? ????? ??? ??????? ???? ???? ????? ?? ????? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ?????? ?? ???? ????’ ??? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ?????? ?????? ???”? ???? ??? ???? ???? ???? ?? ??? ????? ??? ?? ??? ????? ??? ???? ???? ??? ?? ???? ??? ???? ???? ??? ??? ????? ????? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ??? ????? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ???? ??? ???? ?? ???????? ???? ?????? ??? ??????? ????? ??”? ???? ???? ????? ?? ????

    ‘??

    Continued in next post…

    #1045918

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Continued from previous post:

    ??? ????????? ?? ???????? ????????? ??? ??’ ?? ?????? ?”? ????? ?????? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ?? ?? ?????’ ?????? ??? ?????’ ?????’ ?”? ??? ???? ??”? ?”? ????? ???? ?? ????? ????? ???? ???? ??????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ?”? ???? ????? ?????”? ??”? ??? ??? ??? ????? ??????’ ?”? ???? ??-? ??????? ??’ ???? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ?????? ?? ?? ?? ?? ????? ?????? ??? ??? ?”? ??? ??? ????? ??? ?? ?? ??? ???? ???? ??? ??? ??? ????? ??? ??? ??”? ???? ??????? ??? ???? ?? ??????’ ????? ????? ??????’ ?”? ????? ??? ??? ??? ????’ ?? ???? ??????’ ????? ??? ?????’ ????’ ???? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ??? ????? ?? ???? ???? ?????

    Continued in next post…

    #1045919

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Continued from previous post:

    ??? ?????? ????’ ???? ?????? ??????? ???? ????? ???? ??? ?? ?????’ ??????? ?? ???? ???? ???? ????? ????? ?”? ?? ???? ??? ?? ????? ?? ??? ???? ?????? ??????? ??????’ ???? ?????? ?”? ???????’ ?????’ ?????? ????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ?????’ ?? ??? ?”? ?????? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ??????? ??? ??”? ?????’ ?? ??? ????? ???? ??? ????? ??’ ????? ??????? ????? ????? ?????

    #1045920

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    ???? ???”? ???? ??????? ??? ?’ ?:?:

    ??? ???? ???? ??? ??? ???? ??? ?? ???

    #1045921

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Berachos 8a:

    ??? ????’ ???? ?’ ???? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ?’ ????? ????????? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ?????? ?????? ???? ?’ ???? ?? ??? ????? ????? ???? ???? ??? ????? ??? ?? ????”? ?????? ??? ???? ???? ?? ???? ????

    Maharsha there:

    ????????? ????? ???’ ?????”? ???? ????? ???? ????? ?? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ?????? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ???? ??? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ?????? ??????’ ?”? ??? ?????? ??????? ????? ??? ????? ??? ????? ??? ??’ ?????? ??? ?? ??? ????? ??? ??”? ????”? ?????? ????? ???????? ????? ????? ??? ?”? ???? ???? ??????? ?????? ?????? ?? ???? ?????

    #1045922

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Shu”t Beis Ridvaz Hakdama:

    [Interestingly the subtitle of the sefer is ???? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ?????? ?? ???? ?????]

    (The Hakdama is long and it is geshmak in it’s entirety, but alas I can only quote a little bit of it)

    ?? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ????? ????? ????? ????????? ?”? ??? ?? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ???? ??? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? ??? ?? ???? ?????? ?????? ???”? ??? ?? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ?????? ????? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ?????? ??????? ??? ??’ ???? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?? ???? ???? ???? ???”? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ???? ???? ?? ??????

    and a few lines later he writes

    ???? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ??? ??? ?????

    and in his tzava’a he writes

    ?????? ???? ???? ????? ???????? ?????? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ?????? ?? ????? ????? ??? ??????? ????

    (Sam2, this one is also from the article by Dr. Marc Shapiro which I mentioned before.)

    #1045923

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Mishnah Berurah Hakdama:

    ???? ????? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ???? ????

    #1045924

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    ???? ??? (?????) ???? ?? ??? ???? ?? (there are slightly different versions in other midrashim):

    ?”? ??? ?”? ????? ?? ???? ?? ??? ?? ?????? ??”? ???? ??????? ?? ????? ??? ???? ????? ???? ??”? ????? ??????

    #1045925

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Updated list:

    Berachos 8a with Maharsha

    Berachos 63b with Rashi

    Shabbos 63a with Rashi

    Eruvin 48a with Rashi

    Kesubos 15a

    Sanhedrin 42a with Rashi

    Avodah Zara 19a with Rashi

    Avodah Zara 19a with Rashi (there are two different gemaras on 19a which I quoted)

    Horayos 14a

    Shemos Rabba Ki Sisa Parsha 41

    Medrash Mishlei 10

    Piskei Riaz Kiddushin Perek 1 7:8

    Orchos Tzadikim Shaar Hatorah

    Maharal Tiferes Yisroel Perek 56

    Maharal Nesivos Olam Nesiv Hatorah Perek 5

    Maharal Chiddushei Aggados Sanhedrin

    Maharal Gur Aryeh Parshas Vaeschanan

    Maharsha Bava Metzia 85a

    Shelah Maseches Shavuos 22, 25-35

    Vavei Ha’amudim 5:14

    Tzava’ah of the Shelah’s son R’ Sheftel Ose 26

    Maadnei Yom Tov Hakdama

    Kli Yakar Amudei Shesh Amud Hatorah

    Chavos Yair siman 124

    Yaavetz

    Sifsei Yeshanim

    Binyan Ariel Parshas Haazinu

    Chayei Adam Hakdama Acharona

    Pri Megadim

    Panim Yafos Genesis 22:1

    Even Shlaima 8:2

    He’aros ??

    Even Shlaima 8:7

    Shulchan Aruch Harav Hilchos Talmud Torah 2:1

    Teshuva Me’ahava Pesicha

    Toldos Adam Perek 3

    Pele Yoetz Asupa

    Pele Yoetz Girsa

    Pele Yoetz Yesod

    Ohr Yisrael Iggeres 27

    Dor Revii Hakdama

    Mishnah Berurah Hakdama

    Chofetz Chaim Likutei Amarim perek 4

    Chofetz Chaim Likutei Amarim perek 5

    Lev Aryeh hakdama

    Hachana Deraba Ose 6

    Yalkut Hagershoni Chagiga 5a

    Shu”t Beis Ridvaz Hakdama (and tzava’a)

    Seridei Eish letter

    Bihyos Haboker Ose 42

    Shu”t Mishneh Halachos 8:247

    Shevet Halevi 2:57

    R’ Eliyahu Feinstein

    R’ Baruch Ber Leibowitz

    R’ Yaakov Kamenetsky

    R’ Moshe Feinstein

    R’ Elazar Menacham Man Shach

    R’ Berel Soloveitchik

    R’ Moshe Chevroni

    R’Aharon Yehuda Leib Shteinman

    R’ Michel Yehuda Lefkowitz

    R’ Yosef Shalom Elyashiv

    #1045926

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Derashos Chasam Sofer:

    ??? ????? ????? ???? ????”? ??? ????? ????? ??? ??????? ??????? ???? ???? ?? ????? ???? ??? ??????’ ???”? ????? ???? ???”? ?????? ??? ????? ????? ???? ???? ??? ?? ???? ??? ????

    Although perhaps one can claim that this is not such a raya because the Ch”S might just mean that our pilpul is not as good as in the olden days, not necessarily that the pilpul is inherently bad.

    #1045927

    nem621
    Member

    from what i have heard from people who know more than me is that it isn’t yiun is better than bekius or that bekius is better that yiun rather every one has a chelek in torah and H’ made it so that i am natuarally attracted to say… halacha so to me i should focus more on halacha. that being said i read in the book “in their shadow” (thats what i think its called) that the chazon ish held everyone has to do yiun.

    a lot of this quotes that say things about “pilpul” it isn’t what we call pilpul rather a much more complicated probably not emesdik way to learn that people just did to sharpen their minds. not because they thought it was emes but because it would make them sharp R’ Yaakov Pollak took this type of learning to poland i don’t know how many 100s of years ago

    #1045928

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    “rather a much more complicated probably not emesdik way to learn that people just did to sharpen their minds. not because they thought it was emes but because it would make them sharp”

    Walk into any Yeshiva and go over to a guy who is pilpuling and ask him if he thinks his pilpul is emes. If he doesn’t think that it’s emes then ask him why he is doing it. He will probably tell you that he is becoming a lamdan. I daresay that the objections to pilpul of old still apply to the way that many people learn today.

    #1045929

    nem621
    Member

    when i say a pshat i think it may be emes if not unless it is very gishmak there would be no point in saying it

    #1045930

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    “i think it may be emes”

    But you don’t “think that it is emes”

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