Games not for Shabbos

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  • #616134

    No, not video games.

    (Note: The money/commerce issue is not included.)

    Writing/Marking:

    Why Did the Chicken…?

    Say Anything Family Edition

    Wits & Wagers Family

    (^Unless you want to remember everything everyone said)

    Boggle

    Pictionary, Telestrations, etc.

    Ghoulash, Scotland Yard/Mr. X, Escape from the Aliens in Outer Space, Duel in the Dark, Specter Ops, Fury of Dracula, Letters from Whitechapel, or any other write-your-hidden-location game

    Qwixx

    Roll Through the Ages: The Bronze Age/The Iron Age

    Witness

    Some editions of Scrabble (or so I hear)

    Soundtrack:

    Pingo Pingo (a remake of)/ Squad Seven

    Space Alert

    Escape: The Curse of the Temple/Zombie City

    (^All might technically be playable with someone tracking

    and announcing the timed events)

    Numerous music trivia games

    App:

    XCOM: The Board Game

    Alchemists

    Leaders – The Combined Game

    Golem Arcana

    (Mice and Mystics, if you want to listen to the story

    instead of reading it)

    Electric:

    Bugs in the Kitchen

    Loopin’ Louie (and all its incarnations)

    Dark Tower (not that anyone here has it – it’s older than I am)

    Lightning Reaction (It’s more of a toy than a game, really, but I wanted to include it because – not making this up – it electrically shocks the players.)

    Putting stickers and/or writing on the board/cards:

    Risk Legacy

    Pandemic Legacy – Season 1 (to be released in late 2015)

    We Didn’t Playtest This: Legacies

    SeaFall

    #1211558

    monopoly is not a game for shabbos due to the fact that it deals with money

    #1211559

    lesschumras
    Participant

    selling kibbudim on shabbos deals with money

    #1211560

    Mammele
    Participant

    Tzeddakah is allowed to be promised on Shabbos, and we purposely inflate the numbers pledged. Monopoly, though just a game includes wheeling and dealing and does not fit the bill.

    #1211561

    mik5
    Participant

    Monopoly is a shailah. Rav Scheinberg zatzal allowed it, but others do not.

    #1211562

    mik5
    Participant

    Monopoly is a shailah. Rav Scheinberg zatzal allowed it, but others do not.

    The purpose of Shabbos is to learn Torah, not to play games.

    #1211563

    screwdriverdelight
    Participant
    #1211564

    charliehall
    Participant

    “it deals with money”

    No, it doesn’t.

    Fundraising by shuls DOES deal with money and it is mutar. (Never understood why.)

    #1211565

    charliehall
    Participant

    To anyone who thinks that Monopoly is about money….

    I will sell you my Monopoly money for real US dollars and give you a ten percent commission to sweeten the deal.

    If you think that Monopoly is about money you will accept the deal.

    #1211566

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Charlie, there’s no object being sold. See M”B 306, 33.

    http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14171&st=&pgnum=199

    #1211567

    Goldilocks
    Participant

    “Racko” or similar games can be a serious problem on Shabbos.

    #1211568

    Explanation, please, Goldilocks (or anyone else).

    A quick summary, in case it’ll help (not my own writing):

    Each round, you replace cards in your rack so their numbers read in any numerical progression from a low number at the front to a high one at the back (the racks hold the cards behind each other); achieving this ends the round. The cards are numbered from 1 to 60; you initially place them in your rack in the order they’re dealt. On your turn, you draw from the deck or the discard pile, swapping the card with one from your rack.

    Oh, and while I’m here…

    Yahtzee (marking)

    Diplomacy (writing)

    Balderdash (writing)

    Pluckin’ Pairs (writing)

    Fantasy Business (writing)

    Clue: The Great Museum Caper (hidden location writing)

    Loony Quest/Doodle Quest (tracing)

    Any game incorporating a videocassette or DVD (e.g., Candy Land DVD Game, Clue DVD Game, Monopoly: Tropical Tycoon DVD Game)

    (My listing a game in this thread doesn’t mean I think it’s good.)

    #1211569

    Goldilocks
    Participant

    The issue with “Racko” is that a major part of the game involves finding cards in your “rack” that don’t fit into your sequence, and removing them. It involves the melacha of Borer (selecting), as you are removing the unwanted card from your rack.

    #1211570

    I’ll have to look into that.

    #1211571

    I’d suggest you ask your rav whether cards in a Racko rack,

    each one in a separate holder, constitute a mixture from which

    it is assur to select a card to remove.

    (In the case of selecting a card from a hand of cards to use,

    the desired card is being removed by hand for immediate use,

    so I don’t see an issue there. Does anyone want to argue?)

    #1211577

    Word Wave (electric)

    #1211578

    Balloon Pop (Possibly not for ever, depending on your nerves.)

    World of Yo-Ho (Uses smartphones on the board) [To be released soon]

    Birds of a Feather (Difficult to score without app or scoresheet)

    #1211579

    “Balloon Pop” is actually called Boom Boom Balloon (and is now

    available in a Star Wars version with seemingly inferior rules).

    #1211580

    Doodle City

    Crayon Rail series

    Loony Bin (motorized)

    FUSE (app/timer) (Recommended)

    Project: ELITE (timer) (Recommended if you’re okay with aliens)

    SeaFall (which I didn’t realize wasn’t actually out yet last time)

    #1211581

    Captain Sonar (I think I’ll post more about that one.)

    #1211582

    Sam2
    Participant

    Comlink: I’ll argue with you. Let’s say a game like gin or rummy, where part of the game is discarding (not playing, but discarding) the cards that don’t fit in your hand, could definitely be Borer. I could hear a claim why it’s not if the card is still playable after, in which case a “discard” is really just another form of “playing” the card, but I’m eh on accepting that.

    You forgot Operation

    #1211583

    I’ll have to look up how different things need to be in order to

    be considered a mixture. I doubt halacha recognizes differences

    in in-game usage (or possibility of use) – they’re not “real.”

    You forgot Operation

    Did you have to make us all remember it? 🙂

    #1211585

    dovrosenbaum
    Participant
    #1211586

    Pokemon go

    #1211587

    absan
    Participant

    you forgot the seniors game rummy.

    #1211588

    yichusdik
    Participant

    Dovrosenbaum, do you usually write with your hand? Then why don’t you tie it to your belt on shabbos so there won’t be a chashash that you will come to write?

    Does no one have any emunoh in the strength of what they were brought up with and taught? Must we always resort to gedorim that insult the generations that built up our schools and yeshivos so that we would have knowledge and emunoh, and confidence in our day to day Jewish practice?

    #1211589

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    yichusdik, the halacha is that you are not allowed to play a game on Shabbos that normally involves writing. This is the halacha, so it doesn’t matter what we think. But, it’s not comparable to a hand. The hand’s function is not writing; that is merely one thing it does. If you’re playing a game that doesn’t normally involve writing but you happened to have once or twice written while you played it, I would imagine that it’s not assur to play it on Shabbos.

    btw, what we used to do when we were kids: even when we played Scrabble during the week, we would play w/o writing so that it would be muttar to play on Shabbos. We took a catalog or big book and turned the pages to keep track of the score. I’m not paskening that this makes it muttar to play on Shabbos (ask your own Rav) – I just remember that’s what we did as kids.

    #1211590

    I asked Rabbi Simcha Bunim Cohen about that, and he said that

    presumably (“mistama”) it works (to establish the game as one

    that you personally don’t write while playing).

    Sam2, I don’t know where my family’s copy of The Shabbos Kitchen is…

    #1211591

    zogt_besser
    Participant

    “you are not allowed to play a game on Shabbos that normally involves writing”

    this is the view of the chayei adam. online, I read a rav who quoted R’ Scheinberg saying that it’s mutar if you’re really really careful. I like your approach a lot though; a very creative way to avoid the issue altogether.

    #1211592

    benignuman
    Participant

    You missed the best writing game of all . . . Balderdash!

    Any game that would normally involve writing would be uvda d’chol.

    #1211593

    yichusdik
    Participant

    Lilmod – I was using the concept of gezeirah shova to make a point to Dovrosenbaum. I know what the halocho is. He wrote “we don’t play games on shabbos” and didnt qualify, as you did, games that usually involve writing. His assumption of what the proper response to a chashash should be is what I was referencing.

    #1211594

    Mask of Anubis – The game integrates a smartphone app. Players take turns being placed in a fixed position in a maze (they can turn, but not move) by using a cardboard piece as a phone viewer, getting only 60 seconds to describe what they are seeing to the other players, who attempt to build it using physical pieces. Once all the players have taken their turns, they attempt to piece together the different viewpoints into a model of the entire maze. The app then walks them through the maze they are supposed to have. If they have built it correctly, they win.

    #1211595

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Candyland

    #1211596

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Why can’t you play Candyland on Shabbos?

    #1211597

    Lift It! – timer (The players attempt to construct

    arrangements of pieces using cranes worn on the arm

    or head, racing the clock and sometimes each other.)

    #1211598

    Hashemisreading
    Participant

    when was the last time you played a game in Shabbos anyway?

    #1211599

    flatbusher
    Member

    If the game does not involve things that are assur, who is to say what is oneg Shabbos for someone? One poster says SHabbos is for studying Torah not games, but there is a concept of oneg–is it subjective or not?

    #1211600

    when was the last time you played a game in Shabbos anyway?

    Last Friday night. Why?

    #1211601

    A Fake Artist Goes to New York/Duplik/Pictomania/Likewise!/ Backseat Drawing (picture drawing)

    Avenue/Saint Malo/Black Box+/Inca Empire (non-picture drawing)

    #1211602

    mommamia22
    Participant

    Does anyone know if there’s an issue playing with lego on shabbos?

    Though kids usually select the pieces they want, they also move away the pieces they don’t, out of force of habit.

    Also, once kids build items, they usually are intent on leaving it built as long as possible, and don’t want to dismantle it on shabbos.

    Is there then an issue of boneh?

    #1211603

    Google’d.

    Halachipedia:

    [45] Others are strict. [46]

    Footnote 45:

    ## The Or Letzion’s reasoning is that if one intends to take them apart in a short period of time, then it is considered like something that is usually put together and taken apart and doesn’t constitute Boneh. Additionally, they are put together for fun and not in order to build.

    Footnote 46:

    ======================================================================

    Dose of Halacha:

    Question: Can I play with Lego on Shabbos?

    Yet, many poskim including the Tzitz Eliezer (13:30-31) permit it. Seemingly, other poskim are primarily concerned for the prohibition of boneh. Both the Shemiras Shabbos Kehilchasa (16:18) and R’ Belsky write that while construction sets that need screwing together are included in the prohibition of boneh, one is allowed to play with lego on Shabbos.

    While R’ Ovadia Yosef allows it (Yechave Daas 2:55 and Yabia Omer OC 7:39), he suggests that because of the above concerns, adults should ideally refrain from Lego building, though children may do so.

    In conclusion, it is best not to build complete models or buildings on Shabbos, though it is okay to assist children with their Lego building.

    ======================================================================

    Shema Yisrael:

    Are children, or anyone for that matter, permitted to build Lego on Shabbos?

    Lego blocks are not similar to building blocks in the sense that they are not intended to fuse together, nor are they intended to remain attached to each other. The idea behind Lego is that the blocks can be assembled and dismantled at whim, even though not always with ease. One also does not want the Lego blocks to adhere to each other, because that will forfeit the whole idea behind them.

    Accordingly it is permitted to build Lego on Shabbos, even if one does not have in mind to dismantle the Lego on Shabbos, because it is not deemed as Building even for a short while.

    Therefore children need not be barred from playing Lego on Shabbos. As for adults, it is more a matter of priorities and realizing the importance and meaning of Shabbos. Shabbos is a time for spiritual perfection and coming closer to Hashem, and playing with Lego etc can hardly be called doing that.

    As mentioned, the Poskim debate building Lego extensively and one should consult his rav as to whether one is permitted to play with Lego on Shabbos.

    ======================================================================

    Mi Yodeya:

    Is Lego Muktzeh? and can Adults use it too?

    You seem to be asking two questions here:

    (Perhaps I’m reading into your question because of the availability of my answer, but either way it will address your question.)

    ??? ???? ????? ????? ??? ???? ???? ???????? ???????? ??????, ???? ??? ???? ?????

    (From 13:30.6)

    ??? ?????? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ????? ???? ?? ???? ????? ?? ????? ???? – ??? ??????? ?????? ???. ??? ????? ?? ???? ????? ???. ????? ???? ??? ????. ????? ?? ????? ?????? ????? ?????????.?

    He backs up this pesaq din in 13:31, the following siman.

    #1211604

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    One has to be very careful about telling children not to play with their favorite toy on Shabbos (Yeah I know many toys are electronic and assur) but yelling Muktah or Shabbos at young children who might not understand might give them a very negative view of shabbos and instead of a good day, they will see it in a very negative light

    One should try to keep away the electronic toys first and worry about the lego’s and tinker toys later, Taking them all away and making the kid take out a sefer instead may backfire

    #1211605

    mommamia22
    Participant

    Comlink-x

    Thank you so much!!

    What an amazing summary!!

    #1211606

    Sleuth (noting). I recommend it – if you like logic puzzles.

    A second deck contains 54 search cards, each showing one or two elements, such as diamonds, pairs, blue opals, red pearls, or an element of your choice. Each player receives four face-up search cards; on a turn, you choose one of those cards and ask an opponent how many gem cards they have of the type shown. If you ask for, say, pairs, the player must tell you how many pairs they hold but not which specific pairs; if you ask for something more specific, say, red diamonds, the player reveals to everyone how many such cards she holds while you get to look at them in

    secret. You then discard the card you used and draw a new one.

    Players track information on a score pad. You can guess the hidden gem at any time, or on your turn you can ask any one question regardless of which search cards you have, then immediately make a guess by marking your sheet and checking the hidden gem card. If you’re wrong, you keep playing but can only answer questions; if you’re correct, you win.

    #1211607

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    sounds like a great game! thanks for sharing!

    #1211608

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    “One should try to keep away the electronic toys first and worry about the lego’s and tinker toys later, Taking them all away and making the kid take out a sefer instead may backfire”

    I think that all or most Poskim say that they are not a problem for kids. I am sure that no one says that you have to take it away from a kid (certainly not a kid who is young enough that “it will backfire”).

    I agree with your point though, and it is a very important point. When taking away something from a kid on Shabbos, you have to be very careful how it is done.

    I once read an article in which someone said that instead of saying, “we don’t do x on Shabbos”, you should say, “we can do x on sunday”.

    I disagree with that, but I agree that you should try to phrase things positively. You should say, “We do Y & Z on Shabbos”.

    #1211609

    Dexikon

    Linq

    Confusion: Espionage and Deception in the Cold War

    (All involve writing or marking.)

    #1211610

    KnitWit (writing)

    #1211611

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Knitting

    #1211612

    The Grinch: Sing Your Heart Out! (sound-responsive electronic device…

    and that holiday, of course)

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