Looks in shidduchim

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  • #617367

    ocho sinco
    Participant

    why is it so impossible to find girls who I find attractive to date? I’ve been dating for years and this is by far the number one barrier to me getting married. Is there anything I can do ?

    #1141843

    Lower your standards

    #1141844

    crgo
    Participant

    No – there probably is nothing you can do. It is the sad fate of some guys to stay single forever dreaming about the beautiful girl they wish they could find. It’s very sad and unfair. But it has a very real upside. The girl in your dreams will remain stunning forever whereas if you were to find her in the flesh and marry her, the experience would be quite a temporary one as stunning dissipates with time. Oh, there actually is one thing you can do. If you’re not rich, work on getting fabulously wealthy very quickly, as it is a universal truth that a rich guy can always buy himself a pretty girl. (Just make sure that Mom and Grandma are also reasonably attractive for their age so you get an idea of the staying power of her looks. Or, when the time comes, you can trade her in for an upgrade.) My heart goes out to you.

    #1141845

    BarryLS1
    Participant

    ocho sinco Sounds like a convenient excuse. Are you sure you really want to get married?

    #1141846

    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    Lower your expectations? You can’t find someone that is prefect. You may find a girl who is amazing for you in the middos area, and ruchaniyus area but she is taller than you or a bit overwheight or has a nose you don’t like or something like that-would you turn her down?

    #1141847

    Joseph
    Participant

    Looks should be #7 on your shidduch requirements, in rank of importance. #1 should start with middos followed by yiras shomayim, a bas talmid chochom/proper hashkafa, good brothers/family and the other more important requirements. If you do very well in the first six items then you can compromise on looks/#7.

    #1141848

    Health
    Participant

    Shopping 613-“Lower your expectations? You can’t find someone that is prefect. You may find a girl who is amazing for you in the middos area, and ruchaniyus area but she is taller than you or a bit overwheight or has a nose you don’t like or something like that-would you turn her down?”

    Lower your expectations? You can’t find someone that is perfect. You may find a Boy who is amazing for you in the middos area, and ruchaniyus area but He is older than you or/& overweight or something like that-would you turn him down?

    #1141849

    flatbusher
    Participant

    Speak to a therapist. I had a friend who never got married for the same reason. No one was attractive enough, but neither was he physically. On the other hand, when you meet the right one she will be attractive, no matter what she looks like. You’ll just know that it’s right.

    #1141850

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Well at a basic level, the attractive ones are all insisting on normal guys, which is the problem you’re having.

    However, rest assured that the super-duper attractive ones have their own issues and won’t settle for any normal guy either, so all you need is to find the one whose psychosis complements yours.

    #1141851

    ocho sinco
    Participant

    I don’t knOw what that means to lower my standards. It’s ridiculous to marry someone you don’t find attractive. I was attracted to one or two of the people I dated but it didn’t work out for other reasons. You can’t decide to be attracted to someone who isn’t attractive to you. It’s not number anything on my list. It’s a basic aspect of dating that has to be there regardless of how you place it on your little list.

    #1141852

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Save up money for cosmetic surgery on a girl whose personality is right.

    #1141855

    I meant, consider people you find attractive, just don’t wait for someone who is drop dead gorgeous. As one of my maggidei shiur was wont to say “even though everyone expects it, 90% of people will not marry a supermodel”

    #1141856

    The Queen
    Participant

    This thread would be hilarious if it wasn’t so sad and sick.

    #1141857

    ocho sinco
    Participant

    Lol. Does anyone have any real advice on how to go about shidduchim considering the situation. I’m not interested in marrying a supermodel. I’m interested in marrying someone who I find attractive.

    #1141859

    Torah613Torah
    Participant
    #1141861

    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    Okay then ocho sunco@-what does attractive mean to you?

    Describe what you mean. You can be attracted to someone but be pushed away by one feature and that does not mean you should turn away. There’s no love at first sight. You need to feel comfortable, like your could spend your life with her, she looks nice, and ??? you don’t need that much more in that area.

    Health@ I would go for a boy whom is chassidish, or sefardi, or litvish or ashkanazi, whatever my zivug is. Weight is a hard issue but since I’m overweight myself I can’t really talk, so I’d have to say yes. (Perhaps when I’m in shidduchim I’ll be skinner bezrat Hashem, but I still would say yes)

    Age is not a factor, I would marry someone younger than me (as long as he’s at least 20 when I’m dating but I hope to find my zivug before then) and I don’t care that much if he’s 7 years older than me for all that matters. If he has the middos, yiras shamayim, and everything else I’m looking for why should age or skin color play a part?

    I tell girls in my class I’d marry an etheopian. Why not? Hashem chooses zivugim and he’ll worry about me. I’m very open minded.

    The one thing I cannot have in a spouse though is closed mindness.

    That’s a deal breaker.

    #1141863

    YW Moderator-127
    Moderator

    This is a warning. Do not try to repost deleted posts or you will find yourself inactivated.You know who you are.

    #1141864

    ocho sinco
    Participant

    I’m sorry I didn’t understand why it wasn’t working so I kept doing it. I didn’t think you deleted it and I don’t understand what the reason to delete it is

    #1141865

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Shopping, would you marry someone orange?

    #1141867

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Maybe she doesn’t want to be a widow for 20-40 years?

    #1141868

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Health, would you marry someone 40 years older than you?

    #1141869

    ocho sinco
    Participant

    I know many people that have 10 Years between them and and their spouse. Not the biggest deal

    #1141870

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    I have a friend who ended up marrying a woman almost twenty years his senior. They’re still happily married.

    The Wolf

    #1141871

    ocho sinco
    Participant

    Between 10 and 25*

    #1141872

    Health
    Participant

    PBA -“Health, would you marry someone 40 years older than you?”

    (Acc. to those who say you’re female.) And I thought you’re married already!

    #1141873

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Health, you didn’t answer his question.

    #1141874

    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    Well if I’m 19 and I have to choose to date someone 6 years older or 10 years- I’d choose ten. If I grow up a bit and still haven’t found my zivug my range would change

    #1141875

    oomis
    Participant

    True, looks dissipate with time, but what the OP has not yet learned, his idea of what is attractive, might ALSO change with time. When I was young(er) and stupid, I wanted a tall, handsome guy with a nicely-trimmed beard. Preferably with blue eyes. And he had to have a beautiful singing voice. I would not even accept a date if that last item was missing. So Hashem had very different plans for me. I married a phenomenal baal middos, average to short in height, as tone deaf as is humanely possible. Oh yeah, he had a nicely trimmed beard and blue eyes. So I got some of it…

    By the time I met him, my entire perspective on dating had evolved. I was 25 when I got married, but I married someone very different from what I had ideally envisioned, because I finally grew up and realized what was really important and attractive in life. No one can hold a candle to my husband in menschlechkeit (not my words – but the words of anyone who has ever met him). That is a lasting quality. Looks can and do change, but one’s true character is forever.

    BTW, are all these guys who want the shtotty models for wives, so good-looking and well-groomed themselves? Even if so, that does not mean they are worth more than the average Joe (no offense, Joseph, I was not referring to you who are clearly well above average). Don’t set your standards LOWER, but raise your impression of what constitutes a high standard.

    #1141876

    Joseph
    Participant

    Was it my Giorgio Armani that gave it away?

    #1141878

    YW Moderator-127
    Moderator

    Thanks to the poster who posted their concerns. The offending post has been deleted, and we will be on the alert for further such posts.

    #1141879

    ocho sinco
    Participant

    Oomis are you serious? Having a good voice has nothing to do with attraction. That is so ridiculous. Honestly even being well put together isn’t so much a part of it. I’m taking about simply being pretty. Nothing to do with models or singers. I’m not asking for it as a replacement for being a mentch or a Baal midos. When something is necessary, even if it’s not important it’s still necessary.

    #1141881

    technical21
    Participant

    Ocho cinco- just btw, if singing had nothing to do with attraction, then there would be no issur of kol isha.

    Oomis’ point was that your requirement of external attributes in general changes over time- whether looks, abilities, etc. (or at least it should, to a mature person).

    Also, it sounds like you have a fantasy in your head of what “the one” will look like. Most people have some sort of picture in their head, and they need to contend with it in order to find the right one- because Miss Right is not going to look like Miss Fantasy.

    #1141882

    Yserbius123
    Participant

    I dated something along the lines of 30 girls before finding my wife. I don’t think there were more than 3 or 4 I didn’t find attractive. And I’m not some guy who spent the first 22 years of his life not looking up from my Gemara. I went on vacations, I watched movies R”L, and I would look people in the face when talking to them.

    I find it very difficult to believe that anyone can have no luck finding attractive frum girls. It’s clearly a problem with yourself that due to some childhood stress, you’re only attracted to girls who look like Barbie. And a further undiagnosed issue is that you don’t even realize it.

    But I’ll tell you what, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. Under one condition: any girl you go out with has to have seen your picture first and decide yes or no before you see what she looks like.

    #1141883

    Yserbius123
    Participant

    oomis: I once was asked by a potential Shadchan if I could sing, because if I can’t, that would be a dealbreaker for the girl. I laughed and called her ridiculous.

    #1141885

    ocho sinco
    Participant

    Technical there are plenty of frum attractive girls who I’ve seen in my life who I found attractive I just never got set up with them. Everyone finds different people attractive. Just because you found more doesn’t mean I’m unrealistic. And why would u mind if girls see a picture of me before hand? I in general don’t believe in pictures and I actually have had shadchanim ask me for pictures and I’d gladly give them. And yes obviously music has something to do with attraction but it’s not part of the basic attraction that builds the foundation for a healthy husband wife relationship. And it’s in my opinion a serious violation of proper hishtadlus to demand your husband can sing. I haven’t gotten one word of reasonable advice. All I’ve gotten is hate for being in an extremely hard situation. I’m not unrealistic. Ive been around and dated and seen girls who are attractive so obviously they exist…

    #1141886

    Joseph
    Participant

    ocho sinco: Do you watch movies?

    #1141887

    CopyMachine
    Participant

    I think that attraction is a special bracha that guides us in finding our spouses. If the person who hasn’t felt any attraction even after meeting many “potentials” is an emotionally healthy and mentally balanced human being, then we can assume that “not feeling attracted” is simply a fact of life, and not an extreme judgment given by an egotistical person.

    That being said, attraction takes many forms. There is pure physical attraction, which can be classified more as “lust,” and then there is real attraction; the force that causes chein to come shining out of your date’s face, whether or not their features are the most beautiful you’ve ever seen. That sort of attraction is something real, akin to a meeting of the neshamos. A deeper connection, a feeling of belonging with one another…

    I do not believe that waiting for such a connection is a foolish, or hopeless. Waiting only for a simple physical attraction is foolish however.

    So just ask yourself, are you looking for a painting? Or a soul connection? Dig a little deeper and be honest with what you consider “attraction,” then you can go ahead and recognize the real deal when it presents itself.

    Hatzlacha

    #1141888

    technical21
    Participant

    ocho cinco- a lot of your post is responding to what Yserbius123 said, not me. Please specify who you’re responding to.

    In case you didn’t know, I’m a girl.

    Obviously singing is not vital to the foundation of a marriage. As someone who loves to sing, I can understand where those who make it a ???? in a shidduch are coming from- but I disagree with them. When I met shadchanim, I used to say it as an aside that it would be a nice bonus if the boy could sing, but not at all a ????. My chosson doesn’t sing, and to be quite honest, it doesn’t bother me. As you said, there are other, much more important things that form the foundation of our relationship.

    Look, I’m not a boy, so I wasn’t really trying to give you advice. I know that when a girl is not so attracted to a boy, they will tell her to try to focus on one feature of the boy that she likes, and see if attraction grows from there. From what I understand, boys tend to be more holistic when judging looks.

    One thing I do believe is that if it is the right one, attraction will grow, regardless of whether or not the person is objectively attractive. You just don’t want to throw away an opportunity at a shidduch because you are not instantly attracted to the girl. When you like a person, their looks tend to grow on you.

    #1141889

    zogt_besser
    Participant

    there is nothing wrong about wanting to be physically attracted to your wife. that’s why the gemara says it’s imperative to meet the girl before marrying her (shema tisganeh alav) and why you’re allowed to look at a woman you’re dating, even when such histaklus would generally be out of bounds. This is also proven by science. A recent study showed that when asked what qualities matter in choosing a partner, men care about physical beauty a lot more than women do.

    #1141890

    CopyMachine
    Participant

    Of course there is nothing wrong with being physically attracted to one’s future spouse. It is healthy and normal.

    But to be ONLY physical attracted is dangerous. It is goyishe. The physical attraction needs to be an undercurrent to the ikkar: the ability to build a hashkafically similar marriage. That undercurrent is what I was referring to early, that soul connection.

    #1141891

    Joseph
    Participant

    He said he’s been dating for years and in all the years of dating he’s only found “one or two” of the girls attractive.

    That’s a serious problem of his.

    #1141892

    zogt_besser
    Participant

    my point is that physical attraction isn’t just healthy and normal, but also often necessary to the success of a marriage. obviously it physical attraction is not sufficient and is not the ikar. But it is a critical tafel. Thus, the OP shouldn’t be ashamed that such a key factor is hindering his dating success.

    #1141893

    ocho sinco
    Participant

    Sorry not years. But a long time. And copy machine and technical are both 100%right. I’m very against making looks the ikar but I do think it’s necessary for a healthy marriage. And about what copy machine said before the deep connection always comes with a physical attraction too. In other words the most beautiful girl on paper isn’t really gonna help if the deeper connection isn’t there. But there has to be a certain level of attraction for anything to get off the ground. And to Joseph no I don’t watch movies I stopped at about age 19/20. Why? Btw I don’t think Hollywood actresses are percentage wise more attractive than frum girls.( I don’t know if that helps or hurts people’s harsh judgment of my pickiness )

    #1141894

    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    I’m not really comfortable with your question -29

    #1141896

    Utah
    Member

    @ocho sinco I feel you bro. Looks do matter when you are in a relationship and you’ve got to feel like your with the most attractive woman in the world. That being said I’m wondering if you have ever had a relationship with a girl for a long period of time? From what I’ve experienced the longer that I went out with the girl the more and more attractive I found her to be. Even if I didn’t find them to be as attractive in the beginning.

    What they are saying by lowering your expectations is more along the lines of you don’t need to be 100% into her from the first date. Just if there is something there. Maybe you find her a little pretty, or maybe she has a cute smile or something along those lines. Give girls like that more time and don’t be so quick to call it off because your not attracted to them.

    #1141897

    ocho sinco
    Participant

    I Have dated a girl for a long time. In that scenario the girl went from in my opinion gorgeous to, as time went on, the most beautiful person in the world. But that only happened because she was pretty to begin with. You can’t start from now where. Especially since I had that relationship I know what has potential to grow in to a relationship that is healthy from an attraction standpoint and what doesn’t.

    #1141898

    Health
    Participant

    85 -“is healthy from an attraction standpoint and what doesn’t.”

    No you don’t! You can be attractive to s/o and she doesn’t have to be the prettiest girl in the world. Go speak to s/o about dating, either your Rebbe or a therapist!

    #1141899

    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    29, I wasn’t trying to make him feel uncomfortable. I’m just trying to find out how high his expectations are.

    I think one of the problems in shidduchim is that no one can explain. Everyone says I want it to feel right, okay well what do you think that will be? Or they want an attractive guy, okay, ask yourself what attracts you? Like seriously…

    #1141900

    Health
    Participant

    Shopping 613-“ask yourself what attracts you? Like seriously…”

    This is what attracts me – an one eyed, one horned, flying lokshen kugel eater!

    #1141901

    Joseph
    Participant
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