November 19, 2012 8:38 pm at 8:38 pm #606153
What do the users of the CR think about a girl seeing a male therapist or vice versa?
November 19, 2012 8:45 pm at 8:45 pm #912248
Bad idea. Certainly not alone (which is how therapy typically is done.)
November 19, 2012 8:50 pm at 8:50 pm #912249
We are talking about mental health therapy? Physical therapy? Speech therapy? Eating therapy?
November 19, 2012 9:09 pm at 9:09 pm #912250
November 19, 2012 9:17 pm at 9:17 pm #912251
I think that a Daas Tora should be consulted.
However my personal opinion (if it matters) is that it’s wrong.
I am aware of a case in which a (chasidshe) rav arranged a Bachur to see a female therapist.
Again, I think that it depends on a lot of details in which a competent das torah should be consulted.
November 19, 2012 9:35 pm at 9:35 pm #912252
I’m a bit ambivalent about it.
My intuition is that it should be avoided if there is an equal alternative, but not if it seems necessary.
November 19, 2012 10:34 pm at 10:34 pm #912253
I think that in general therapists and patients can understand each other better when they are of the same gender. There are certain issues that plague each gender that it is just very difficult for the opposite gender to relate to.
November 19, 2012 10:46 pm at 10:46 pm #912254
It should be avoided since many patients develop a strong attachment to the therapist. If there’s a huge age difference it’s probably less of a problem.
There are well qualified frum therapists of both genders available in NYC, maybe no so out of town.
November 19, 2012 11:02 pm at 11:02 pm #912255
If saichel is being used, gender matching the client to the therapist is a must. As with any rule, there are exceptions. It is virtually impossible to avoid the issue altogether, but it is certainly beyond recognized morals for anyone to “specialize” in working davka with the opposite gender. It creates continual shailos of yichud. There is a known record of some of those who claim such “specialty” of working with opposite gender clients, whether doing kiruv, counseling, therapy, etc. of becoming involved in non-professional ways. Only a select few of these situations make it to public knowledge, and get attention in the media and the blogs. One should wonder why anyone would put themselves at such risk.
November 20, 2012 12:17 am at 12:17 am #912257
Most of the therapists at ohel are female
November 20, 2012 12:23 am at 12:23 am #912258
So are most of the patients.
(Hmm, I wonder why.)
November 20, 2012 12:31 am at 12:31 am #912259
So how are you going to decide what to do? Take a tally of all the responses who have posted here? Why don’t you simply ask a your Rav.
November 20, 2012 1:27 am at 1:27 am #912260
zahavasdad wasn’t the OP
November 20, 2012 2:00 am at 2:00 am #912261
So, when couples want to/need to go for joint therapy, are they automatically sinning (since one of them must be of the opposite gender)?
November 20, 2012 2:20 am at 2:20 am #912262
Don’t be such a wiseguy. Obviously this is referring to one-on-one sessions not involving a married couple.
November 20, 2012 3:13 am at 3:13 am #912263
Occasionally, and I know this may be out there, I think an opposite gender therapist may be preferred.
There are many issues out there…
Bottom line – as with all extensive opposite gender interaction – a cost/benefit analysis is in order.
November 20, 2012 3:23 am at 3:23 am #912264
You always manage to sneak in a sinning comment!
Since its a couple, a lot of problems fall away.
November 20, 2012 3:28 am at 3:28 am #912265
Totally assur. A male can not even talk to a non-male receptionist.
November 20, 2012 3:56 am at 3:56 am #912268
You always manage to sneak in a sinning comment!
That’s not true. There are any number of threads where I don’t mention sin at all.
November 20, 2012 10:07 am at 10:07 am #912269
Your right, sorry about that. I should have written often instead of always.
November 20, 2012 4:09 pm at 4:09 pm #912270
just my hapenceMember
Ringless – Unfortunately you have strayed into an alternative dimension where the word ‘female’ must never be used (even to say that the word ‘female’ must never be used…). It’s known as the CR and is the home of some very strange and unusual lifeforms.
November 21, 2012 6:39 am at 6:39 am #912271
Too many “problems” have occurred.
November 21, 2012 10:42 am at 10:42 am #912274
It’s commonplace that even Frum therapists see opposite gender clients and I’m sure they do this with Rabbonim’s okay.
Many therapists specialize and the help that individuals need is sometimes special. So it ends up that most therapists have opposite gender clients.
I sometimes wonder about some posters here -Do you just sit in front of your computers all day on your thrones and decide e/o out there is doing something wrong? How about going out once in awhile and seeing the world? Yes, Professionals deal with e/o even if they are Not the same gender.
November 21, 2012 2:40 pm at 2:40 pm #912275
These are one on one private sessions behind closed doors that last for about an hour without anyone but the two of them together alone.
You can only imagine what can occur when a man and a girl are in that situation. Often what actually happens behind those closed doors are worse than what you can imagine.
Which is why rabbonim prohibit or frown on such “sessions”.
November 21, 2012 5:51 pm at 5:51 pm #912277
I guess its also assur to see an opposite gender doctor or be helped by an opposite gender nurse
November 21, 2012 7:04 pm at 7:04 pm #912279
Health – you are getting defensive but missing the point. The question was about a client – not a professional. When a client is choosing a therapist, should the gender of the therapist be a factor in the decision? I think even The Wolf would agree it should be (no guarantees though). The real question is to what extent?
Whether professionals must generally treat both genders equally, and whether there are specialists who see opposite gender clients, is addressing the question from the wrong perspective.
November 21, 2012 7:06 pm at 7:06 pm #912280
There are many ways to cope with the problems of yichud. One is not considered a “machmir” if steps are taken to prevent yichud, one is just following basic halacha. Whether or not a surveillance camera qualifies to block yichud is a shailoh addressed by contemporary poskim. Having an open door with the possibility that one may enter the premises without prior notification is clearly a better choice.
It is also poor judgment to conduct individual sessions at odd hours of the night when interruption is all but impossible. Even an open door is probably useless at such times, and halacha would prohibit the relationship altogether. Now, Cough Weberman Cough.
November 21, 2012 7:21 pm at 7:21 pm #912281
opinion: it’s always better to have same-gender, as with a doctor. But if someone specializes or if someone is more beneficial, or there is no equal therapist of the same-gender, then opposite gender would be muttar. I’m sure the frum therapists have steps they are told by their rav to take, such as leaving the door slightly ajar, or the secretary popping in at any time, etc.
But please posters, can we disagree b’nachas, and not b’insult? Its thoughts and opinions and experiences, it doesnt have to get personal or include onaas dvorim. Thanks so much 🙂
November 21, 2012 8:18 pm at 8:18 pm #912283
frumnotyeshivish -“Health – you are getting defensive but missing the point. The question was about a client – not a professional. When a client is choosing a therapist, should the gender of the therapist be a factor in the decision?”
No, I didn’t “Miss the point”. I don’t think anyone has to start a post saying – should I go to an opposite gender professional instead of a same gender one. This is commonsense. If all things are equal -why wouldn’t the person stay with their own gender? The answer is, at least I think people here have commonsense, that the OP and others have an agenda. They want to look down on others – so they come here supposedly asking innocent questions like -“What do the users of the CR think about a girl seeing a male therapist or vice versa?”
The answer that I gave was that in the real world most therapists or other professionals specialize in different areas -this is why you see Many Frum professionals seeing opposite genders. No people – they are not Goyim.
To illustrate -they have had topics here whether women will only see female OB’s or male ones. A lot of Frum women said they prefer the male ones and obviously they feel not e/o who practices medicine are always equal and that’s why they go to the male OB’s. This is what happens in mental health too. This is why Frum people go to opposite gender therapists and this is why Frum therapists will take opposite gender clients.
November 21, 2012 8:54 pm at 8:54 pm #912284
I do not know why you are assuming that this was the intent of the OP. In fact I did and still do view it as an innocent question.
I do not think that you can compare therapy to a doctors visit. A Doctors exam is objective, its not in any way similar to a therapy session.
With therapy, the therapist will discuss the clients emotions and feelings, there is a lot of room for personal relationship.
November 21, 2012 9:14 pm at 9:14 pm #912285
Its considered bad form for a therapist to get involved with a patient, no different than a doctor or nurse getting involved with a patient.
November 21, 2012 9:19 pm at 9:19 pm #912286
I am a 35 year old married female who has tried 4 different female therapists and could not connect to any of them. I am thinking I should try a male therapist now.
November 21, 2012 10:00 pm at 10:00 pm #912287
To SaysMe- well said.
Thats exactly what I was going 2 write
November 21, 2012 10:20 pm at 10:20 pm #912288
November 21, 2012 10:20 pm at 10:20 pm #912289
are you talking from experience?
With my experience, a therapist plays with ones emotions, talks about the clients personal experience, a lot of room to establish a personal connection.
is it right or professional? probably not, however there is the risk of establishing a personal relationship.
A regular health care professional does not have this risk.
November 22, 2012 12:35 am at 12:35 am #912290
I do not think that you can compare therapy to a doctors visit. A Doctors exam is objective, its not in any way similar to a therapy session.
With therapy, the therapist will discuss the clients emotions and feelings, there is a lot of room for personal relationship.”
I understand your point. (This may be a first.)
Anyways I’ve had to do with a lot of therapists – Medicine & mental health get intertwined a lot. I’ll explain what I meant about specializing. I know this female therapist who deals with certain types of Taavos, not going to mention what they are in a public forum. Anyways she’s Frum & she gets a lot of referrals from Rabbonim for Frum males. Why? Because in the NY area there are no Frum males, at least that people know about, that deal with these issues. In other words, these people need to have a Frum therapist who understands the Halacha as opposed to a Goyishe therapist. So she gets stuck with these males, but she is able to help them. The same with many Frum therapists I know – they deal with certain types of illness that opposite genders need help in and they can’t find elsewhere.
November 22, 2012 12:43 am at 12:43 am #912291
pink vaultz -“I am a 35 year old married female who has tried 4 different female therapists and could not connect to any of them. I am thinking I should try a male therapist now.”
Let me tell you something. Therapy is like a Shidduch – you need a good Shadchan. An org. called Relief does a great job of matching people to therapy. They will ask you about your illness and/or problems and they will try to match you to an appropiate therapist. The therapist can be either male or female.
November 22, 2012 1:15 am at 1:15 am #912292
No One Mourns The WickedMember
“Let me tell you something. Therapy is like a Shidduch – you need a good Shadchan.”
Exactly, The fact that we are even having this conversation is absolutely ludicrous! Seek the therapist that will be able to help you in the most constructive manner,gender should not make a difference.
November 22, 2012 2:01 am at 2:01 am #912293
Gender should make a major difference.
At least if you are a Jew, that is.
November 22, 2012 3:34 am at 3:34 am #912294
A person going to a therapist is obviously having tzures and that’s precisely the wrong time to be meikel about mingling, tznius and yichud.
November 22, 2012 4:17 am at 4:17 am #912295
NOMTW – “Seek the therapist that will be able to help you in the most constructive manner…” That is precisely the point. Gender is one of the most defining factors about a person. Who a person is defines how they can help. Unlike other “Health” industry workers, there is much subjectivity and variety within every aspect of mental health care. Additionally, there must be a personal, deep, trusting relationship, for many types of therapy to work. Saying gender doesn’t matter, may be just as shallow a view as saying one may never go to an opposite-gender therapist.
What is very clear to me, is that there is no one answer.
The universally agreed upon concept here, is to get as much objective help as is possible toward the “right” goal. To do that one must identify the goals desired. Being that everyone’s goals are very different, the disagreement here seems to be more about what the “right” goal is, than which gender gets you there.
November 22, 2012 9:07 am at 9:07 am #912296
from my experience: i am a male, married with kids bh. i have tried therapy with both genders and just couldnt connect to men. Id say it depends on each case.
November 22, 2012 9:53 am at 9:53 am #912297
When someone says they’ve tried it both ways and can only connect with the opposite gender, all sorts of red flags should be raised. That is exactly why they should not be seeing the opposite gender.
November 22, 2012 2:24 pm at 2:24 pm #912298
Health, you and I don’t see eye to eye on things like Zionism, but I agree with you on this 100%. And I would like to see from those who are telling us it leads to problems, evidence of more than one or two (i.e. a “problem” rather than an aberration that could happen same gender as well) licensed, professional therapist in the frum community who has taken advantage of the situation.
November 22, 2012 3:49 pm at 3:49 pm #912299
I am just wondering how many of you have actually had the opportunity to see a therapist. I started reading some of your posts and I stopped. Not all of them, some of you are so irresponsible. I don’t think the person asking the question asked an halachic question. And even if yes, the answer should always be. “Ask a Rav, A Rabbi, or Dean, Rosh Yeshivah, etc.. some one you would ask other shailos. Its not so simple, as a yes or no answer. Sometimes their might be reasons to permit and sometimes not. And to answer the question like it is. Only someone that was/is in the situation should and could answer this.
Now if I may I will try to answer the question,
Again Personally please find a Rav to talk to as well. But don’t assume its enough they are busy and they are not therapists. Make a kesher with one to ask all your question, if you don’t know one we can try to help you find one.
Now about the therapy, I think it all depends on why you need to go, and if your going for your self or for your self because of some one else. Sometimes you can feel more comfortable with a person of the opposite gender that will have more understanding to your concerns and you will speak more. Example: Josh go’s to a man therapist, he feels very funny talking to a man about how his wife dresses or treats him or doesn’t bathe or things that are worse. He feels that a women will understand better, he might open up and talk more. Not that I’m saying that the man doesn’t understand its just that some might feel that way. Same with a women, She might feel uncomfortable talking to someone in the same gender about issues Example: my husband dose this wierd thing or that, etc… That’s why it really depends on the situation and why you need to go.
November 22, 2012 4:55 pm at 4:55 pm #912301
99+% of the times you’ll never hear about the problem that occured. That is the nature of this beast.
November 22, 2012 7:02 pm at 7:02 pm #912302
iced -“99+% of the times you’ll never hear about the problem that occured. That is the nature of this beast.”
This post IMHO has to be Denounced. Your insinuations are beyond the pale. Most forbidden relationships never make the 8 O’clock news but to insinuate that this is a common problem amongst therapists is ludicrous. It’s not even a common problem in general amongst Frum people. Let alone s/o who’s license would be on the line. Stop looking for the few cases to say that it’s Ossur to see a therapist from the opposite gender. As a matter of fact, there are cases of bad things occuring with therapists from the same gender. There is this one guy who fled to Israel and has been fighting extradition the last 20 years.
You sound like s/o who doesn’t even believe in therapy in the first place.
November 22, 2012 9:08 pm at 9:08 pm #912303
Since this thread talks about therapists, I would like to mention that there are tons of self books out there that are excellent. Many are better than a real life therapist, and they are certainly cheaper.
(Sure there are those that need real live therapists for their issues, but there are a great many people who got the help they needed from a self help book.)
November 22, 2012 11:39 pm at 11:39 pm #912304
Hilchos Yichud are still in force when seeing a therapist.
Perhaps, even, especially so.
November 23, 2012 6:57 am at 6:57 am #912305
Chulent -“Hilchos Yichud are still in force when seeing a therapist.”
I don’t know if they are or not -I’m not a Poisek. And I doubt you are either.
But this would only be a problem if the client (woman) wasn’t married.
If the client or the therapist are women & are married and the husband is in the town – then there is no problem of Yichud.
November 23, 2012 12:43 pm at 12:43 pm #912307
I suppose most here are greater Talmedi Chachamin than Rav Dovid Cohen (and Im fairly sure with the blessing of other Gedolim as well) who allowed Ohel to have female therapists with male clients
November 23, 2012 12:58 pm at 12:58 pm #912308
Shulchan Aruch does not differentiate between yichud with a unmarried woman than yichud with a married woman. And yichud with a married woman is significantly worse. It is forbidden to have yichud with a married woman even if the husband is in town.
November 23, 2012 1:11 pm at 1:11 pm #912309
..and this is after you said that you are not a posek.
November 23, 2012 6:05 pm at 6:05 pm #912310
2scents -“..and this is after you said that you are not a posek.”
I’m not a Poisek, but I can quote S’A.
November 23, 2012 6:15 pm at 6:15 pm #912311
iced -“Shulchan Aruch does not differentiate between yichud with a unmarried woman than yichud with a married woman. And yichud with a married woman is significantly worse. It is forbidden to have yichud with a married woman even if the husband is in town.”
Do you know who the words “Shulchan Aruch” is refering too? It’s the Mechaber or the Rema, not other Achronim. And the Mechaber does differentiate between husband in town or not. While there are Achronim who say this doesn’t always apply – they aren’t the “Shulchan Aruch”.
Before you use an opposite gender therapist a Shaila should be asked. To outright say it’s Ossur is ludicrous.
November 25, 2012 1:19 am at 1:19 am #912312
Therapy is usually an intimate experience. You don’t want that kind of bond with someone you’re not going to marry.
November 25, 2012 5:10 am at 5:10 am #912313
Health, the achronim assur all kinds of talking with the other gender even without yichud. Also, with some kinds of therapy there is negiya.
November 25, 2012 9:24 am at 9:24 am #912314
torah613613torah -“Therapy is usually an intimate experience. You don’t want that kind of bond with someone you’re not going to marry.”
I don’t think you know what “an intimate experience” is. Therapy might develop a bond, but not that kind of a bond.
Do you think each session is like a date and you get closer to the other person in an intimate way? Your post is absurd.
November 25, 2012 9:31 am at 9:31 am #912315
Loyal Jew -“Also, with some kinds of therapy there is negiya.”
I never heard of such a type of therapy, but if there is then obviously you can’t do it.
“Health, the achronim assur all kinds of talking with the other gender even without yichud.”
Name One Shitta that Assurs talking to a woman for a good reason!
I guess when s/o goes out on a date they must communicate with the other party in sign language or by writing notes or nowadays by texting/email.
November 25, 2012 1:09 pm at 1:09 pm #912316
???? ??? ?????? ?????? ???? ????
Why is so difficult for some to understand that in general a woman therapist is far from the best option? I will be so brash to say that anyone who was successfully “treated” by a therapist, enjoyed a good relationship with the therapist. Is that part of the issur of Maran, yichud or not? IMO, yes.
Can there be someone so corrupt that the positives of treatment by a woman will outweigh the negatives of being oiver on a Issur? Yes, but as a blanket rule, it is assur until permitted.
November 25, 2012 2:10 pm at 2:10 pm #912317
torah613613torah is mostly correct.
November 25, 2012 2:13 pm at 2:13 pm #912318
It is not absurd at all. Actually, there is abundant discussion in the early literature in psychoanalysis that the connections that develop between a client and therapist can be quite intense, and border on the romantic. It is the responsibility of the therapist to insure that these feelings are kept in check, and only permitted to continue so that the necessary therapy can work. Once the underlying issues have been resolved, this “transference” experience must be resolved to allow the client to achieve full emotional independence. Likewise, the therapist experiences feelings toward the client, called “counter-transference”. The therapist must also be very conscious of these feelings so that they do not move the therapist beyond appropriate boundaries. While psychoanalysis is almost obsolete as a therapeutic modality, many of the concepts are universally recognized as relevant regardless of the therapeutic approach.
If there are emotions that occur, additional steps must be taken to insure that boundaries are not compromised or challenged.
Let’s address halacha. Yichud is assur. That is halacha psukah. No one can challenge that, and excuses are irrelevant. The questions are how to guarantee that a therapy encounter keeps within halachic guidelines. One can safely avoid opposite gender client-therapist situations. But reality is that it is almost unavoidable, and there must be measures taken to prevent yichud – which is assur. Open doors, having arranged for someone to enter unannounced, etc.
Now let’s take another angle for those less inclined to recognize hilchos yichud. Play therapist. You see a client of the oposite gender. One day, after a session where the client was unhappy with the outcome of a session, he or she makes an accusation that you engaged in physical contact, and that he or she was abused by that. Your professionalism, your license, and your career are now on the line. Add to that the possibility of court action with legal costs (almost never covered by any form of insurance including malpractice insurance). Your working life is over. Yes, over. If you would have insured that hilchos yichud were upheld, the accusation would have little chance of being made or sticking, as it would not be believable. So for practical reasons, not just following halacha, yichud laws are critical.
November 25, 2012 3:17 pm at 3:17 pm #912319
Health, This thread is getting more absurd by the post. I can tell from some posts on here that they never had a therapy session in their life. And they are stam hocking a cheinik.
November 25, 2012 3:18 pm at 3:18 pm #912320
Health – I have both education and experience in the psychological field. I have observed many times how young single frum girls invariably end up attracted to their male therapists. I don’t know if it works the other way with young men and female therapists, but I’ve seen it often enough to be very wary.
November 25, 2012 9:36 pm at 9:36 pm #912321
torah613613torah: In any of those cases where you’ve seen an attraction develop, did the relationship go further?
November 25, 2012 9:46 pm at 9:46 pm #912322
Being able to open up to the other gender and being attracted are two diffrence things. I never had a problem with this and never will. And i mean frum female therapists. There was never a yichud problem. Its professional and nothing more. Since i dont live in same country like my therapist we usually skype. Besides when i go there.
November 26, 2012 2:13 am at 2:13 am #912323
uneeq -“Why is so difficult for some to understand that in general a woman therapist is far from the best option?”
Who doesn’t understand this? But sometimes it’s a necessary thing.
“I will be so brash to say that anyone who was successfully “treated” by a therapist, enjoyed a good relationship with the therapist.”
What’s brash about this?
“Is that part of the issur of Maran, yichud or not? IMO, yes.”
IMO, no – if she is married and so says the S’A. Ever hear of him?
November 26, 2012 2:16 am at 2:16 am #912324
PBA -“torah613613torah is mostly correct.”
Since you said so – it must be.
Gimme a break.
November 26, 2012 2:21 am at 2:21 am #912325
torah613613torah -“Health – I have both education and experience in the psychological field. I have observed many times how young single frum girls invariably end up attracted to their male therapists. I don’t know if it works the other way with young men and female therapists, but I’ve seen it often enough to be very wary.”
I never suggested a single girl should see a male therapist. I said a married woman can. There might be cases where a girl might need a man, but a Shaila should be asked first.
November 26, 2012 3:51 am at 3:51 am #912326
We are forgetting that the idea of letting our girls learn to be therapists was so they could support their husbands in learning, not that they should be doing yichud and violating tznius with strange men r”l. Shame on those parents.
November 27, 2012 1:06 am at 1:06 am #912328
Single women are the kal, married women are the chomer.
November 27, 2012 1:42 am at 1:42 am #912329
torah613613torah -“Single women are the kal, married women are the chomer.”
Not when it comes to Yichud and Baalah B’ir. Did you ever learn Hilchos Ishos in S’A?
November 27, 2012 1:50 am at 1:50 am #912330
Little that you know -“Let’s address halacha. Yichud is assur. That is halacha psukah. No one can challenge that”
The S’A says Yichud with a married woman is Mutter if her husband is in town.
November 27, 2012 2:30 am at 2:30 am #912331
Health – Are you insinuating that it is assur for a single girl but muttar for an eishes ish, as per yichud?
November 27, 2012 5:28 am at 5:28 am #912332
What heter can there be to do therapy with a person who you cannot say hello to in the street, who we should rather die than shake hands with?
November 27, 2012 5:59 am at 5:59 am #912333
Health made the point that a married woman whose husband is in town has different rules than other (read married w/ husband out of town, single, etc.) women.
While I am unsure about how different, and whether this applies to therapy-like situations, the general idea is (gasp) indisputably correct.
Any argument on this point should be from someone who knows about the “baalah b’ir” concept, not ignoramuses (like myself – I don’t know much more than what I just wrote).
As an aside, because a gedolah is bchezkas nidda, single girls should not be characterized as “the kal.”
November 27, 2012 9:35 am at 9:35 am #912336
Loyal Jew -“What heter can there be to do therapy with a person who you cannot say hello to in the street, who we should rather die than shake hands with?”
What Issur is there in talking to a woman for a purpose?
News flash – There is none. Time to start learning Halacha.
And the therapist doesn’t have to shake the client’s hand – it ain’t part of therapy.
November 27, 2012 9:46 am at 9:46 am #912337
@loyal jew: the same is with doing any parkematya(business)with jew and non jews alike. Yet we do business with the opposite gender on daily basis. If there is no yichud problem or shaking hands involved i just cant see why therapy is diffrent than any other professional meeting. Just btw every therapist is supposed to have someone who he/she talks to in order to see if theres a problem coming up
November 27, 2012 9:46 am at 9:46 am #912338
November 27, 2012 1:02 pm at 1:02 pm #912339
If her husband is in town (and they are NOT behind a locked door etc.), it is not yichud. There are plenty of halachos that discuss these details. All I said was that yichud is assur, and therapy does not render an issur to become heter. What precisely is your argument?
November 27, 2012 2:37 pm at 2:37 pm #912340
often, its helpful to get the perspective that only the opposite gender can offer. each case is individual and needs to be considered from all angles,ask a shaila if needed for guidance, but there is what to be said for having an opposite perspective. can be very very helpful.
November 27, 2012 6:28 pm at 6:28 pm #912341
elmos world -“@HEALTH -I believe there is a difference between yichud when the husband is in the same town from their home and work correct me if I’m wrong.”
The S’A doesn’t differentiate, but the PT does. He says only in her house, but in s/o else’s house not because he doesn’t know where she is. And even if he does know and gave her permission for sure it’s Ossur.
Whether a workplace is like s/o else’s house or the workplace is like her house – ask your LOR. Whether we Pasken like this PT or not – ask your LOR.
(PT = Piskey Teshuva)
November 27, 2012 6:44 pm at 6:44 pm #912342
The little I know -“If her husband is in town (and they are NOT behind a locked door etc.), it is not yichud. There are plenty of halachos that discuss these details. All I said was that yichud is assur, and therapy does not render an issur to become heter. What precisely is your argument?”
How about looking up the S’A before Posting?
Again the S’A Doesn’t say it’s Ossur, as a matter of fact he says it’s Mutter. That’s right – the S’A says she can have Yichud with a man. He doesn’t differentiate if the door is locked or not.
The PT does make distinctions. See my above post.
So as far as I’m concerned – therapy isn’t Yichud in the first place for a married woman. But you should ask a Shaila like I just posted above anyway.
I posted this above -“To outright say it’s Ossur is ludicrous.”
November 28, 2012 6:43 am at 6:43 am #912343
Health, the whole notion of letting people become therapists began so that inlaws wouldn’t have to provide kollel support. From there we’ve reached the point where we go to therapists as if they were doctors. Who says the heter that we use to go to a doctor applies to therapists at all? And of the opposite gender, when we’re trying desperately to enforce tznius?
November 28, 2012 8:29 pm at 8:29 pm #912344
Loyal Jew, I really try hard not to post on this site but your comment is just so ridiculous that I cant help myself
The whole point of letting people become therapists was so there would be frum therapists to help frum people with their problems. Therapists are doctors. They go to school just like doctors. You might not know this, but there are mental illnesses like depression, anxiety, OCD and more that are rampent in the jewish community. We need frum therapists to help combat these problems, no different than we would need a doctor to treat a physical illness.
December 11, 2012 3:04 pm at 3:04 pm #912349
I guess its OK if the “therapist” is male and its a teenage girl.
Then he is an Ehricher Yid
December 11, 2012 3:15 pm at 3:15 pm #912350
Its only ok if the girl is under 18 the younger the better, and that he makes sure to lock the door with at least one lock. Also therapy sessions must be a minimum of 3 hours with an option for a 14 hour car ride to who knows where thrown in for good measure. You want to make sure she REALLY gets better.
Oh and therapy licenses are TOTALLY OPTIONAL.
December 11, 2012 3:53 pm at 3:53 pm #912351
Its interesting that many of the same people who are claiming this is assur are defending an individual who did just that…
December 11, 2012 7:20 pm at 7:20 pm #912352
I find it moronic that a person who strongly defends opposite gender therapists on this thread writes eleswhere that he assumes a therapist is an abuser solely because he was with an opposite gender therapee.
December 11, 2012 7:40 pm at 7:40 pm #912353
The Rasha never claimed to be a therapist
December 11, 2012 8:06 pm at 8:06 pm #912354
Anyone who was successfully “treated” by a therapist, enjoyed a good relationship with the therapist. It is not possible to fix your proplems with out a good relationship with your therapist.
December 11, 2012 9:38 pm at 9:38 pm #912355
Loyal Jew – I just thought of something. Let’s say you tried a male therapist and it didn’t work and you tried them all -do you think you should stay with your mental illness like depression or do you think you should go to a female therapist? It’s Ossur to be depressed so I don’t think s/o should remain this way.
I never advocated just picking up and going to an opposite gender therapist – my beef was with those who posted Ossur no matter what. If you need to go to an opposite gender therapist, by all means ask your Rov how to go about it. Nothing is clear cut -one way or the other.
December 12, 2012 12:56 am at 12:56 am #912356
“Loyal Jew – I just thought of something. Let’s say you tried a male therapist and it didn’t work and you tried them all -do you think you should stay with your mental illness”
We can all tell that he does prefer his mental illness.
December 12, 2012 5:46 am at 5:46 am #912357
Health, no one wants to be depressed but who paskened that it’s Ossur? Even if someone did, did he also say that we can throw aside tznius, yichud, negiya and geder arayot for the cause of not being depressed?
December 12, 2012 1:13 pm at 1:13 pm #912358
Deprssion is not “Feeling Sad” its very different than that, Its a very serious mental illness.
Its unfortunatly people who dont understand mental illness mock it and dont take it seriously.
If you had cancer would you only see a same gender doctor?
Why should people who suffer from mental illness be treated any differently
December 12, 2012 4:56 pm at 4:56 pm #912359
Loyal Jew -“Health, no one wants to be depressed but who paskened that it’s Ossur?”
I defintely seen that it’s Ossur to be in Atzvus. (M”itzva Gedolah Leiyos B’simcha Tomid.” You reminded me of the song.) Open up a “Gateway to Happiness”. He discusses this.
“Even if someone did, did he also say that we can throw aside tznius, yichud, negiya and geder arayot for the cause of not being depressed?”
Definitely some of these can be avoided. But like I said before, if for some reason they can’t, a Shaila to your Rov should proceed any therapy. You and others for some reason – have decided it’s Ossur no matter what and this is simply wrong.
December 12, 2012 6:49 pm at 6:49 pm #912360
If you had cancer would you only see a same gender doctor?
Why should people who suffer from mental illness be treated any differently
Does the cure for cancer involve the doctor relating to you emotionally?
Look, I’m fine with you thinking that it is ok. But to say there is nothing to talk about and that it is exactly like having an opposite gender cashier at the bakery–that’s a bit much.
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