opposite gender therapists

We are talking about mental health therapy? Physical therapy? Speech therapy? Eating therapy?

I think that a Daas Tora should be consulted.

However my personal opinion (if it matters) is that it’s wrong.

I am aware of a case in which a (chasidshe) rav arranged a Bachur to see a female therapist.

Again, I think that it depends on a lot of details in which a competent das torah should be consulted.

I think that in general therapists and patients can understand each other better when they are of the same gender. There are certain issues that plague each gender that it is just very difficult for the opposite gender to relate to.

If saichel is being used, gender matching the client to the therapist is a must. As with any rule, there are exceptions. It is virtually impossible to avoid the issue altogether, but it is certainly beyond recognized morals for anyone to “specialize” in working davka with the opposite gender. It creates continual shailos of yichud. There is a known record of some of those who claim such “specialty” of working with opposite gender clients, whether doing kiruv, counseling, therapy, etc. of becoming involved in non-professional ways. Only a select few of these situations make it to public knowledge, and get attention in the media and the blogs. One should wonder why anyone would put themselves at such risk.

So are most of the patients.

(Hmm, I wonder why.)

zahavasdad wasn’t the OP

Don’t be such a wiseguy. Obviously this is referring to one-on-one sessions not involving a married couple.

Wolf,

You always manage to sneak in a sinning comment!

Since its a couple, a lot of problems fall away.

You always manage to sneak in a sinning comment!

That’s not true. There are any number of threads where I don’t mention sin at all.

The Wolf

Ringless – Unfortunately you have strayed into an alternative dimension where the word ‘female’ must never be used (even to say that the word ‘female’ must never be used…). It’s known as the CR and is the home of some very strange and unusual lifeforms.

It’s commonplace that even Frum therapists see opposite gender clients and I’m sure they do this with Rabbonim’s okay.

Many therapists specialize and the help that individuals need is sometimes special. So it ends up that most therapists have opposite gender clients.

I sometimes wonder about some posters here -Do you just sit in front of your computers all day on your thrones and decide e/o out there is doing something wrong? How about going out once in awhile and seeing the world? Yes, Professionals deal with e/o even if they are Not the same gender.

I guess its also assur to see an opposite gender doctor or be helped by an opposite gender nurse

There are many ways to cope with the problems of yichud. One is not considered a “machmir” if steps are taken to prevent yichud, one is just following basic halacha. Whether or not a surveillance camera qualifies to block yichud is a shailoh addressed by contemporary poskim. Having an open door with the possibility that one may enter the premises without prior notification is clearly a better choice.

It is also poor judgment to conduct individual sessions at odd hours of the night when interruption is all but impossible. Even an open door is probably useless at such times, and halacha would prohibit the relationship altogether. Now, Cough Weberman Cough.

frumnotyeshivish -“Health – you are getting defensive but missing the point. The question was about a client – not a professional. When a client is choosing a therapist, should the gender of the therapist be a factor in the decision?”

No, I didn’t “Miss the point”. I don’t think anyone has to start a post saying – should I go to an opposite gender professional instead of a same gender one. This is commonsense. If all things are equal -why wouldn’t the person stay with their own gender? The answer is, at least I think people here have commonsense, that the OP and others have an agenda. They want to look down on others – so they come here supposedly asking innocent questions like -“What do the users of the CR think about a girl seeing a male therapist or vice versa?”

The answer that I gave was that in the real world most therapists or other professionals specialize in different areas -this is why you see Many Frum professionals seeing opposite genders. No people – they are not Goyim.

To illustrate -they have had topics here whether women will only see female OB’s or male ones. A lot of Frum women said they prefer the male ones and obviously they feel not e/o who practices medicine are always equal and that’s why they go to the male OB’s. This is what happens in mental health too. This is why Frum people go to opposite gender therapists and this is why Frum therapists will take opposite gender clients.

Its considered bad form for a therapist to get involved with a patient, no different than a doctor or nurse getting involved with a patient.

To SaysMe- well said.

Thats exactly what I was going 2 write

ZDAD,

are you talking from experience?

With my experience, a therapist plays with ones emotions, talks about the clients personal experience, a lot of room to establish a personal connection.

is it right or professional? probably not, however there is the risk of establishing a personal relationship.

A regular health care professional does not have this risk.

pink vaultz -“I am a 35 year old married female who has tried 4 different female therapists and could not connect to any of them. I am thinking I should try a male therapist now.”

Let me tell you something. Therapy is like a Shidduch – you need a good Shadchan. An org. called Relief does a great job of matching people to therapy. They will ask you about your illness and/or problems and they will try to match you to an appropiate therapist. The therapist can be either male or female.

Gender should make a major difference.

At least if you are a Jew, that is.

NOMTW – “Seek the therapist that will be able to help you in the most constructive manner…” That is precisely the point. Gender is one of the most defining factors about a person. Who a person is defines how they can help. Unlike other “Health” industry workers, there is much subjectivity and variety within every aspect of mental health care. Additionally, there must be a personal, deep, trusting relationship, for many types of therapy to work. Saying gender doesn’t matter, may be just as shallow a view as saying one may never go to an opposite-gender therapist.

What is very clear to me, is that there is no one answer.

The universally agreed upon concept here, is to get as much objective help as is possible toward the “right” goal. To do that one must identify the goals desired. Being that everyone’s goals are very different, the disagreement here seems to be more about what the “right” goal is, than which gender gets you there.

When someone says they’ve tried it both ways and can only connect with the opposite gender, all sorts of red flags should be raised. That is exactly why they should not be seeing the opposite gender.

I am just wondering how many of you have actually had the opportunity to see a therapist. I started reading some of your posts and I stopped. Not all of them, some of you are so irresponsible. I don’t think the person asking the question asked an halachic question. And even if yes, the answer should always be. “Ask a Rav, A Rabbi, or Dean, Rosh Yeshivah, etc.. some one you would ask other shailos. Its not so simple, as a yes or no answer. Sometimes their might be reasons to permit and sometimes not. And to answer the question like it is. Only someone that was/is in the situation should and could answer this.

Now if I may I will try to answer the question,

Again Personally please find a Rav to talk to as well. But don’t assume its enough they are busy and they are not therapists. Make a kesher with one to ask all your question, if you don’t know one we can try to help you find one.

Now about the therapy, I think it all depends on why you need to go, and if your going for your self or for your self because of some one else. Sometimes you can feel more comfortable with a person of the opposite gender that will have more understanding to your concerns and you will speak more. Example: Josh go’s to a man therapist, he feels very funny talking to a man about how his wife dresses or treats him or doesn’t bathe or things that are worse. He feels that a women will understand better, he might open up and talk more. Not that I’m saying that the man doesn’t understand its just that some might feel that way. Same with a women, She might feel uncomfortable talking to someone in the same gender about issues Example: my husband dose this wierd thing or that, etc… That’s why it really depends on the situation and why you need to go.

iced -“99+% of the times you’ll never hear about the problem that occured. That is the nature of this beast.”

This post IMHO has to be Denounced. Your insinuations are beyond the pale. Most forbidden relationships never make the 8 O’clock news but to insinuate that this is a common problem amongst therapists is ludicrous. It’s not even a common problem in general amongst Frum people. Let alone s/o who’s license would be on the line. Stop looking for the few cases to say that it’s Ossur to see a therapist from the opposite gender. As a matter of fact, there are cases of bad things occuring with therapists from the same gender. There is this one guy who fled to Israel and has been fighting extradition the last 20 years.

You sound like s/o who doesn’t even believe in therapy in the first place.

Hilchos Yichud are still in force when seeing a therapist.

Perhaps, even, especially so.