Smoking affects others.

Home Coffeeroom Decaffeinated Coffee Rants Smoking affects others.

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  • #1538464

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Regardless of whether or not it’s assur, you’re causing people to breathe in that disgusting smoke.

    #1538612

    The little I know
    Participant

    RebYidd:

    The questions involved should be spelled out.

    1 – It places others who inhale second hand smoke to risk.
    2 – It inconveniences others because it is disgusting.

    Now let’s see comments.

    #1538693

    Avi K
    Participant

    Smoking in the presence of others is assault.

    #1538691

    Toi
    Participant

    So go somewhere else.

    #1538958

    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    Toi, google 3rd hand smoke. A new study shows the smoke can linger in a area for over 30 years, and will affect anyone who walks through that area.

    #1538980

    frumnotyeshivish
    Participant

    As usual, people conflate their opinions about smells with health advice.

    Constantly exposing a person to smoke or ash in a relatively enclosed environment has been proven to have negative affects on their health.

    There is no study to my knowledge (please correct me if I’m wrong) which shows or implies that occasional exposure to diluted second hand smoke outdoors has *any* affect of one’s health *whatsoever*.

    It likely is healthier and in my opinion it smells better than diesel exhaust. Where are the complaints about diesel trucks? This is part of the CDC and public health establishment’s quest to reduce smoking, which, admittedly, saves lives. But the lives saved come at the expense of truth and objectivity.

    #1539028

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    As a pedestrian, I rarely find myself walking directly behind diesel trucks.

    #1539456

    Midwest2
    Participant

    Don’t knock the “public health establishment” and the CDC. If they weren’t on the job you and I would have died of SARS years ago. (Google that, and know real fear.)

    The CDC doesn’t talk about second hand smoke out of doors, but they have plenty to say about air pollution (including diesel trucks). Check out their website at cdc.gov, which gives health information about almost all the problems you could meet living in the US. Give it a visit and see what they have to offer.

    And yes, as an ex-smoker who quit after a bout of pneumonia, I would classify anyone who inflicts second-hand smoke on someone else as a “rodef.” (Disclaimer – I’m not a posek, but that’s my personal feeling.)

    My right to breathe beats your “right to do want I want.” You can do without smoking (try it). I can’t do without breathing.

    #1540753

    yitzchokm
    Participant

    “My right to breathe beats your “right to do want I want.” You can do without smoking (try it). I can’t do without breathing.”

    It’s right to smoke on public property. Since it’s legal for me to do sO, I will continue doing it.

    It’s not nice to do, that I understand. It’s not nice to yell obscenities at people either. But it’s perfectly legal to do so.

    Your perceived health issues isn’t my problem.

    You can always move, or buy yourself a few Acres of property, sit in the middle of it and not be exposed to my smoke.

    #1540804

    The little I know
    Participant

    yitzchokm:

    Have you no shame? How can you defend the chutzpah attitude of not caring about the inconveniencing others for your own pleasure? Do you somehow believe that the character trait you advocate is consistent with Torah value? Is it consistent with the hallmark traits of a Yid? Or maybe – to be דן לכף זכות, you are simply making it your business to lead the march of חוצפה יסגי so that we can we can all merit the coming of Moshiach?

    It is not about yelling obscenities either. It is about decency. It is about avoiding things that offend others. Yes, I wholeheartedly believe that smoking is an issur d’Oraysa, and I have quoted the myriad of poskim who said that. You are busy with pilpul that removes the word assur, in defiance of clear pronouncements of so many gedolim, and on that basis claim the right to be offensive. Go ahead, make your pilpul, consider your behavior acceptable according to halacha, but do not impose it on everyone else. That is undoubtedly disgusting.

    There is a quote in the name of various gedolim – there is one mitzvah in invisible ink that precedes all others. While not seen in black on white, it is a prerequisite for all of Torah. It says, “Be a mentch”.

    The disrespect you proudly display here is good enough reason to ignore your comments. They are not coming from rational thinking nor from a position of true Torah life.

    #1540810

    yitzchokm
    Participant

    Sorry for the typos

    #1540968

    Health
    Participant

    Avi K -“Smoking in the presence of others is assault.”

    WRONG! It’s Attempted Murder!
    I know a Frum couple who died – He from Smoking & his wife from 2nd-hand Smoking.

    #1541017

    yitzchokm
    Participant

    The answers so far:

    RY: it’s disgusting (true)

    Avi K.: it’s assault (what??)

    FNY: there’s little indication that occasional second hand smoke actually does anything besides annoy you (true)

    Midwest: rodef (what??)

    Me: it can’t be “rodef” or “assault” because it’s mutter l’halacha

    LIK: I have- no shame,
    Lots of chutzpah,
    Bad character traits,
    No Torah values
    And should be ignored

    Health: Avi K. Is wrong, it’s not assault. It’s attempted murder. (what???????)

    Subtitles: somthing about sikrikim shouting Nazi ( thank God for Goodwin’s law) and something about ethics.

    Hyperbole much?

    When the terms assault, attempted murder, and rodef are used, it’s not a question of ethical good behavior, it’s a question of halacha.

    You should be this aggravated the next time you see a conservative Jew doing chulel Shabbos. C”v

    #1541040

    Midwest2
    Participant

    Poor yitzchokm: You’ve been listening to too much talk radio and picking up their inimitable attack-dog style, which isn’t Jewish by anybody I knew from the Alte Heim.

    The “I can do what I want” mindset isn’t Jewish – it’s from the world out there that we’re supposed to be different from.

    Or maybe you’re just a troll?

    #1541069

    frumnotyeshivish
    Participant

    What’s going on with the ad homimem attacks?
    Smoking affects others like eating garlic affects others.
    Also, there are folks that work themselves into a tizzy over seeing someone else smoke. But those folks shouldn’t blame the smoker. It’s not his fault that they have issues. Get therapy or something. Maybe have a cigarette or something. But don’t blame the world for your problems.

    #1541111

    yitzchokm
    Participant

    Midwest2 A look in the mirror would be appropriate

    I didn’t attack anyone. The voices here that tried portraying smokers as vicious killers are the ones who should be toning it down a bit.

    #1541173

    The little I know
    Participant

    yitzchokm:

    Come on. No one here is portraying anyone as vicious killers. Several of us are simply reporting known medical science about the dangers of smoking and second hand smoke. You may Google that information. It is not secret. There are also several well referenced NIH publications on the subject, and these are not political, just scientific. No one needs to tone down anything. Halacha demands that we take matters of danger even more stringently than matters of halacha. You keep quoting Reb Moshe as saying there is no issur, and it has been demonstrated that this is erroneous. You are then confronted about the matter of smoking being offensive to others, and all you can do is tell us all that you haven’t a care for anyone’s health or ability to breathe normal air, and would exercise your “right” to smoke in our presence. Your attitude on that stinks, and it needs to be toned down.

    You might refer to the sefer I repeatedly quoted and referenced חיים ללא עישון where several of the poskim address the offensiveness, and attach that as an additional issur. Mostly, you are dictating to us all that you can do whatever you want, rewrite halacha if it suits you, and exercise a “right” that secular law has not taken from you. Midos, and the ways of Torah seem to have zero bearing to you. We should tone down? Maybe you should look up the references several of the commenters here shared, and then tell us if you wish to be a בר פלוגתא going up against the vast list of recent and contemporary poskim who gave their piskei halacha that you don’t prefer. Once you are coming from a position of having studied the subject, you should be able to approach the subject with logic and rational thinking. Sorry, but your stand of “I can do whatever I want” is babyish. And that is overly kind.

    #1541189

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Being legal doesn’t make smoking a right.

    #1541302

    frumnotyeshivish
    Participant

    TLIK – The sefer you repeatedly quote, is it right? I think that’s part of the question regarding first-hand smoke. I think it is not. Quoting from it again will not help. Regarding 2nd-hand smoke outdoors, the sefer, plainly, like your opinion, is well-intentioned, yet completely irrelevant.

    No one is forcing anyone to smoke. Indeed, over the last 15 years, it became unlawful to smoke in many indoor public places. Chill out. Have a cigarette.

    #1541306

    yitzchokm
    Participant

    “You keep quoting Reb Moshe as saying there is no issur, and it has been demonstrated that this is erroneous. ”

    You keep saying I’m wrong, I keep pointing to the text which shows I’m right.
    It’s not erroneous. I even posted an actual kol korah which implored people not to smoke, but didn’t forbid it. So could it really be you’re wrong? Hmmmmmm

    #1541339

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    I assume that you are pro peanut butter in schools, even if there is a student with a severe peanut allergy.

    #1541420

    yitzchokm
    Participant

    I’d love to respond to some of the messages that was just posted, but I have no idea who any of you are. Old people with new names/aliases. I feel like I’m talking to a brand new baby

    #1541453

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Do you really have to know who someone is in order to talk to them?

    #1541514

    Health
    Participant

    yitzchokm -“I didn’t attack anyone.”

    I feel so bad for you – you’re just an innocent Victim!
    Are you married? Do you smoke where your family breathes it in?

    “The voices here that tried portraying smokers as vicious killers are the ones who should be toning it down a bit”

    They are killers B’Shogeg. You must of missed my previous post – here it is again:
    “I know a Frum couple who died – He from Smoking & his wife from 2nd-hand Smoking.”

    #1541604

    yitzchokm
    Participant

    I don’t talk to babies

    Health,
    I’m not a victim. Nor am I afraid of your hyperbole.

    Viewers that are willing to actually go through the entire thread here, would realize that’s my response about the right to smoke came with the backdrop of people like Health, claiming that second-hand smoke is akin to assault or even attempted murder.

    As I’ve posted before, although according to Jewish law most rabanim strongly discourage smoking, most agree it’s not completely forbidden. https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/isnt-smoking-אסור#post-1540415

    I despise the smell of smoke. I’ve never smoked a day in my life. No one in my immediate family smokes. I have no skin in the game.

    When discussing something intelligently, emotion shouldn’t play a role. This is a question of whether or not something is permissible according to Jewish law, and what’s the stablished thing it is, how to deal with Society.
    Of course you shouldn’t be a nuisance to others. The question is if you have the right to impose your idea of what’s considered being nice on others. They obviously have an addiction. That’s why they smoke. It’s sad, but that’s the way it is. Not allowing them to smoke in public places is more harmful to them than it is to you.

    Health, although you like to portray yourself as a health professional, the fact is this issue has nothing to do with science. It’s your personal feelings in the matter and frankly, you’re wrong.

    In a recent study published in the Journal of the National Cancer Institute, headlined “No Clear Link Between Passive Smoking and Lung Cancer” the study proves that second hand smoke, contrary to popular belief, does not cause lung cancer. The only slight statistical increase in lung cancer caused by second-hand smoke, were people living in houses where people smoked constantly. But the increase was so nominal, it’s not considered statistically important. Being exposed to secondhand smoke occasionally has absolutely nothing to do with lung cancer. It’s free to read the study, I’d urge you to read it on your own.

    #1541644

    MasmidInTraining
    Participant

    What’s the shelah? 1st hand smoke is also dangerous and assur!

    #1541653

    🐵 ⌨ Gamanit
    Participant

    yitzchokm- why are you only raising the point re lung cancer? That’s not the only smoking related illness. There’s a long list of illnesses as well as other conditions which are worsened by exposure to secondhand smoke. Asthmatic people often have attacks triggered by passing someone smoking on the street.

    Even worse- miscarriage and birth defect rates for babies whose fathers are smokers are more than twice the rate of babies whose fathers are non smokers. Smoking kills thousands of unborn children every year. Many men laugh it off but it’s an absolute fact that a father’s health will affect their future children’s health.

    #1541658

    yitzchokm
    Participant

    Screenshot_20180618_132315

    #1541666

    yitzchokm
    Participant

    It is not been proven that second-hand smoke causes miscarriage, although, there’s a an increase of risk. Definitely not the cause of thousands and thousands of deaths.

    And even the studies that have been performed, it was done in households in which the pregnant woman was constantly exposed to secondhand smoke. Occasional second hand smoke has no known side effects.

    In terms of triggering asthma attacks, many, many environmental factors trigger asthma attacks. Yes, secondhand smoke is on the list as well. As is exercise, changes in weather, pollination, some medications, perfume, deodorant, paint, nights, fog, excitement, stress, anger, Etc. Of the hundreds of triggers, second hand smoke is one of them. Banning something because of it is nonsense.

    #1541794

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    It should be banned because it’s unpleasant. People should also not be allowed to roll in stinky garbage and walk down the street like that, or carry lit prank candles in public.

    #1541815

    Health
    Participant

    yitzchokm -“The only slight statistical increase in lung cancer caused by second-hand smoke, were people living in houses where people smoked constantly. ”

    Stop with your PATHETIC Defense of Smoking!
    You must of missed my previous post – here it is again:
    “I know a Frum couple who died – He from Smoking & his wife from 2nd-hand Smoking.”
    So in that case the man smoked in his house.
    Is a guy who smokes in his house a Rodef?!?
    Try to be honest!!!

    #1541819

    yitzchokm
    Participant

    Health,

    You skiped the next sentence. “But the increase was so nominal, it’s not considered statistically important.”

    Chances are, the wife did not die from secondhand smoke.
    Statistically, there is no real difference between secondhand smoke and no second hand Smoke in terms of lung cancer

    #1542211

    Health
    Participant

    yitzchokm -“Health, You skiped the next sentence. “But the increase was so nominal, it’s not considered statistically important.”

    It wasn’t part of the point I was making.

    “Chances are, the wife did not die from secondhand smoke.”

    Don’t CONFUSE yourself with the Facts – She DID!

    “Statistically, there is no real difference between secondhand smoke and no second hand Smoke in terms of lung cancer”

    Thanks for the info, but it’s Not Reality.
    BTW, How much do you smoke/day? I’m curious about how much time you have left?!?

    #1542282

    🐵 ⌨ Gamanit
    Participant

    And even the studies that have been performed, it was done in households in which the pregnant woman was constantly exposed to secondhand smoke. Occasional second hand smoke has no known side effects.

    Where did I ever say it was due to secondhand smoke? I saw studies that looked at the father’s health at time of conception affecting miscarriage and birth defect rates. If the father is an alcoholic that causes the miscarriage rates to go up as well. I don’t think anyone believes in second hand alcohol effects.

    Anything affecting a father’s health can impact his children’s future health. Not going into too much details as to the hows and whys but it is now believed that future fathers should be taking care of themselves in the same way future mothers do now. This includes no smoking, minimal drinking if at all, and healthy eating habits as well.

    #1543584

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Asthma is real too.

    #1543630

    yitzchokm
    Participant

    Health,
    You don’t know why she died. You think you know why she died. I’m here to tell you you’re probably wrong.

    And for the third time, I don’t smoke and I’ve never smoked.

    Gamanit,

    I didn’t realize you were referring to the father. I thought you were referring to secondhand smoke. Your argument is even more absurd. “Anything affecting a father’s health can impact his children’s future health” please cite an actual scientific study you can prove us. Hint: You won’t find any.

    RebYidd,
    True, changes in weather is also real.

    #1543683

    every time i breath in second hand smoke i literally cough up a storm.
    to be honest, i should do it right in the face of whoever smoked near me.
    if youre gonna smoke, go to your backyard or roof or place where literally nobody is and go smoke your lungs out but keep it a good distance away from other people (or at least other people who may be non-smokers)

    #1543681

    Health
    Participant

    yitzchokm -“Health, You don’t know why she died. You think you know why she died. I’m here to tell you you’re probably wrong”

    You’re right – I think Lung Cancer kills people and you think I’m wrong?
    Tell me why are you pushing smoking – what’s in it for you?

    #1543682

    Health
    Participant

    From NIH – Cancer.gov:
    “Lung cancer includes two main types: non-small cell lung cancer and small cell lung cancer. Smoking causes most lung cancers, …”

    #1543717

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    How many is most?

    #1543902

    yitzchokm
    Participant

    Health,

    I showed you the study. Second hand smoke doesn’t cause lung disease/lung cancer. It just doesn’t.

    #1543944

    Health
    Participant

    what happened to my posts?

    #1543929

    Health
    Participant

    yitzchokm -“Health, I showed you the study. Second hand smoke doesn’t cause lung disease/lung cancer. It just doesn’t.”

    Did you ever go to college?
    Did you take Statistics?
    You can’t understand studies without it.
    All that study proves that there is No causation, Not correlation!

    #1543940

    Health
    Participant

    From the CDC:
    “Secondhand Smoke Harms Children and Adults
    There is no risk-free level of secondhand smoke exposure; even brief exposure can be harmful to health.1,2,6
    Since 1964, approximately 2,500,000 nonsmokers have died from health problems caused by exposure to secondhand smoke.

    Health Effects in Children
    In children, secondhand smoke causes the following:1,2,3
    Ear infections
    More frequent and severe asthma attacks
    Respiratory symptoms (for example, coughing, sneezing, and shortness of breath)
    Respiratory infections (bronchitis and pneumonia)
    A greater risk for sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS)

    Health Effects in Adults
    In adults who have never smoked, secondhand smoke can cause:
    Heart disease
    For nonsmokers, breathing secondhand smoke has immediate harmful effects on the heart and blood vessels.1,3
    It is estimated that secondhand smoke caused nearly 34,000 heart disease deaths each year during 2005–2009 among adult nonsmokers in the United States.1
    Lung cancer1,7
    Secondhand smoke exposure caused more than 7,300 lung cancer deaths each year during 2005–2009 among adult nonsmokers in the United States.1
    Stroke”

    #1543941

    🐵 ⌨ Gamanit
    Participant

    please cite an actual scientific study you can prove us. Hint: You won’t find any.

    I found quite a few. If links would be allowed I’d post them here but there were many studies proving this. Do a little research and you’ll see. For starters check out article #27113031 from pubmed.

    #1544010

    yitzchokm
    Participant

    Health, yes and yes and I know how to read research studies, thank you very much

    Gamanit,
    The study you posted has nothing to do with stillborn and birth deficits. It speaks the effects of smoking and low s count. Low s count also comes from cell phones, laptops, bicycle riding, medication side effects, hot tubs, antibiotics.

    #1544017

    🐵 ⌨ Gamanit
    Participant

    yitzchokm – not only low counts but also damage to the genetic material. There were genetic abnormalities found as well. From what I’ve read the more abnormalities you can see on a microscope, the more actual genetic damage there is.

    #1544041

    Health
    Participant

    yitzchokm -“Health, yes and yes and I know how to read research studies, thank you very much”

    From previous:
    “Lung cancer1,7
    Secondhand smoke exposure caused more than 7,300 lung cancer deaths each year during 2005–2009 among adult nonsmokers in the United States.”
    I know one of them!
    From previous:
    “I know a Frum couple who died – He from Smoking & his wife from 2nd-hand Smoking.”

    “Second hand smoke doesn’t cause lung disease/lung cancer.”
    So please Stop LYING!!!

    #1544117

    yitzchokm
    Participant

    Health, read the study. The CDC statistics are based on flawed methodology.

    Their methodology is like yours, you say you know two people, one a smoker and one, a secondhand smoker.
    According to you, they both died of lung disease or cancer. You’re saying, that the second hand smoke caused the lung cancer. The study proves that the lung cancer was not caused by secondhand smoke.

    The CDC will still view it as such, because of people like you which assume that that’s the reason. Their numbers come from Hospital statistics, that for example, such-and-such amount people who were victims of secondhand smoke have cancer. They don’t know what caused it. THEY ASSUME it’s because of second-hand smoke. Actual Studies have proven that not to be true. Correlation doesn’t equal causation.

    Gamanit:
    the study you linked says nothing of genetic abnormalities that affect future offspring

    #1544131

    yitzchokm
    Participant

    Sew, read the study. The CDC statistics are based on flawed methodology.

    Their methodology is like yours, you say you know two people, one a smoker and one, a secondhand smoker.
    According to you, they both died of lung disease or cancer. You’re saying, that the second hand smoke caused the lung cancer. The study proves that the lung cancer was not caused by secondhand smoke.

    The CDC will still view it as such, because of people like you which assume that that’s the reason. Their numbers come from Hospital statistics, that for example, such-and-such amount people who were victims of secondhand smoke have cancer. They don’t know what caused it. THEY ASSUME it’s because of second-hand smoke. Actual Studies have proven that not to be true. Correlation doesn’t equal causation.

    Gamanit:
    the study you linked says nothing of genetic abnormalities that affect future offspring

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