June 13, 2018 8:53 am at 8:53 am #1538464
Regardless of whether or not it’s assur, you’re causing people to breathe in that disgusting smoke.June 13, 2018 10:44 am at 10:44 am #1538612
The questions involved should be spelled out.
1 – It places others who inhale second hand smoke to risk.
2 – It inconveniences others because it is disgusting.
Now let’s see comments.June 13, 2018 12:55 pm at 12:55 pm #1538693
Smoking in the presence of others is assault.June 13, 2018 12:55 pm at 12:55 pm #1538691
So go somewhere else.June 13, 2018 4:48 pm at 4:48 pm #1538958
Shopping613 🌠 Mods do you think you could pretty please go into the setting and limit the amount of characters in a display name . Also I miss subtitles too! 😭😏Participant
Toi, google 3rd hand smoke. A new study shows the smoke can linger in a area for over 30 years, and will affect anyone who walks through that area.June 13, 2018 4:52 pm at 4:52 pm #1538980
As usual, people conflate their opinions about smells with health advice.
Constantly exposing a person to smoke or ash in a relatively enclosed environment has been proven to have negative affects on their health.
There is no study to my knowledge (please correct me if I’m wrong) which shows or implies that occasional exposure to diluted second hand smoke outdoors has *any* affect of one’s health *whatsoever*.
It likely is healthier and in my opinion it smells better than diesel exhaust. Where are the complaints about diesel trucks? This is part of the CDC and public health establishment’s quest to reduce smoking, which, admittedly, saves lives. But the lives saved come at the expense of truth and objectivity.June 13, 2018 6:23 pm at 6:23 pm #1539028
As a pedestrian, I rarely find myself walking directly behind diesel trucks.June 14, 2018 12:06 pm at 12:06 pm #1539456
Don’t knock the “public health establishment” and the CDC. If they weren’t on the job you and I would have died of SARS years ago. (Google that, and know real fear.)
The CDC doesn’t talk about second hand smoke out of doors, but they have plenty to say about air pollution (including diesel trucks). Check out their website at cdc.gov, which gives health information about almost all the problems you could meet living in the US. Give it a visit and see what they have to offer.
And yes, as an ex-smoker who quit after a bout of pneumonia, I would classify anyone who inflicts second-hand smoke on someone else as a “rodef.” (Disclaimer – I’m not a posek, but that’s my personal feeling.)
My right to breathe beats your “right to do want I want.” You can do without smoking (try it). I can’t do without breathing.June 16, 2018 11:29 pm at 11:29 pm #1540753
“My right to breathe beats your “right to do want I want.” You can do without smoking (try it). I can’t do without breathing.”
It’s right to smoke on public property. Since it’s legal for me to do sO, I will continue doing it.
It’s not nice to do, that I understand. It’s not nice to yell obscenities at people either. But it’s perfectly legal to do so.
Your perceived health issues isn’t my problem.
You can always move, or buy yourself a few Acres of property, sit in the middle of it and not be exposed to my smoke.June 17, 2018 1:11 pm at 1:11 pm #1540804
Have you no shame? How can you defend the chutzpah attitude of not caring about the inconveniencing others for your own pleasure? Do you somehow believe that the character trait you advocate is consistent with Torah value? Is it consistent with the hallmark traits of a Yid? Or maybe – to be דן לכף זכות, you are simply making it your business to lead the march of חוצפה יסגי so that we can we can all merit the coming of Moshiach?
It is not about yelling obscenities either. It is about decency. It is about avoiding things that offend others. Yes, I wholeheartedly believe that smoking is an issur d’Oraysa, and I have quoted the myriad of poskim who said that. You are busy with pilpul that removes the word assur, in defiance of clear pronouncements of so many gedolim, and on that basis claim the right to be offensive. Go ahead, make your pilpul, consider your behavior acceptable according to halacha, but do not impose it on everyone else. That is undoubtedly disgusting.
There is a quote in the name of various gedolim – there is one mitzvah in invisible ink that precedes all others. While not seen in black on white, it is a prerequisite for all of Torah. It says, “Be a mentch”.
The disrespect you proudly display here is good enough reason to ignore your comments. They are not coming from rational thinking nor from a position of true Torah life.June 17, 2018 1:12 pm at 1:12 pm #1540810
Sorry for the typosJune 17, 2018 1:14 pm at 1:14 pm #1540968
Avi K -“Smoking in the presence of others is assault.”
WRONG! It’s Attempted Murder!
I know a Frum couple who died – He from Smoking & his wife from 2nd-hand Smoking.June 17, 2018 2:37 pm at 2:37 pm #1541017
The answers so far:
RY: it’s disgusting (true)
Avi K.: it’s assault (what??)
FNY: there’s little indication that occasional second hand smoke actually does anything besides annoy you (true)
Midwest: rodef (what??)
Me: it can’t be “rodef” or “assault” because it’s mutter l’halacha
LIK: I have- no shame,
Lots of chutzpah,
Bad character traits,
No Torah values
And should be ignored
Health: Avi K. Is wrong, it’s not assault. It’s attempted murder. (what???????)
Subtitles: somthing about sikrikim shouting Nazi ( thank God for Goodwin’s law) and something about ethics.
When the terms assault, attempted murder, and rodef are used, it’s not a question of ethical good behavior, it’s a question of halacha.
You should be this aggravated the next time you see a conservative Jew doing chulel Shabbos. C”vJune 17, 2018 3:05 pm at 3:05 pm #1541040
Poor yitzchokm: You’ve been listening to too much talk radio and picking up their inimitable attack-dog style, which isn’t Jewish by anybody I knew from the Alte Heim.
The “I can do what I want” mindset isn’t Jewish – it’s from the world out there that we’re supposed to be different from.
Or maybe you’re just a troll?June 17, 2018 3:52 pm at 3:52 pm #1541069
What’s going on with the ad homimem attacks?
Smoking affects others like eating garlic affects others.
Also, there are folks that work themselves into a tizzy over seeing someone else smoke. But those folks shouldn’t blame the smoker. It’s not his fault that they have issues. Get therapy or something. Maybe have a cigarette or something. But don’t blame the world for your problems.June 17, 2018 5:44 pm at 5:44 pm #1541111
Midwest2 A look in the mirror would be appropriate
I didn’t attack anyone. The voices here that tried portraying smokers as vicious killers are the ones who should be toning it down a bit.June 17, 2018 7:53 pm at 7:53 pm #1541173
Come on. No one here is portraying anyone as vicious killers. Several of us are simply reporting known medical science about the dangers of smoking and second hand smoke. You may Google that information. It is not secret. There are also several well referenced NIH publications on the subject, and these are not political, just scientific. No one needs to tone down anything. Halacha demands that we take matters of danger even more stringently than matters of halacha. You keep quoting Reb Moshe as saying there is no issur, and it has been demonstrated that this is erroneous. You are then confronted about the matter of smoking being offensive to others, and all you can do is tell us all that you haven’t a care for anyone’s health or ability to breathe normal air, and would exercise your “right” to smoke in our presence. Your attitude on that stinks, and it needs to be toned down.
You might refer to the sefer I repeatedly quoted and referenced חיים ללא עישון where several of the poskim address the offensiveness, and attach that as an additional issur. Mostly, you are dictating to us all that you can do whatever you want, rewrite halacha if it suits you, and exercise a “right” that secular law has not taken from you. Midos, and the ways of Torah seem to have zero bearing to you. We should tone down? Maybe you should look up the references several of the commenters here shared, and then tell us if you wish to be a בר פלוגתא going up against the vast list of recent and contemporary poskim who gave their piskei halacha that you don’t prefer. Once you are coming from a position of having studied the subject, you should be able to approach the subject with logic and rational thinking. Sorry, but your stand of “I can do whatever I want” is babyish. And that is overly kind.June 17, 2018 8:29 pm at 8:29 pm #1541189
Being legal doesn’t make smoking a right.June 18, 2018 7:06 am at 7:06 am #1541302
TLIK – The sefer you repeatedly quote, is it right? I think that’s part of the question regarding first-hand smoke. I think it is not. Quoting from it again will not help. Regarding 2nd-hand smoke outdoors, the sefer, plainly, like your opinion, is well-intentioned, yet completely irrelevant.
No one is forcing anyone to smoke. Indeed, over the last 15 years, it became unlawful to smoke in many indoor public places. Chill out. Have a cigarette.June 18, 2018 7:08 am at 7:08 am #1541306
“You keep quoting Reb Moshe as saying there is no issur, and it has been demonstrated that this is erroneous. ”
You keep saying I’m wrong, I keep pointing to the text which shows I’m right.
It’s not erroneous. I even posted an actual kol korah which implored people not to smoke, but didn’t forbid it. So could it really be you’re wrong? HmmmmmmJune 18, 2018 8:00 am at 8:00 am #1541339
I assume that you are pro peanut butter in schools, even if there is a student with a severe peanut allergy.June 18, 2018 9:26 am at 9:26 am #1541420
I’d love to respond to some of the messages that was just posted, but I have no idea who any of you are. Old people with new names/aliases. I feel like I’m talking to a brand new babyJune 18, 2018 10:41 am at 10:41 am #1541453
Do you really have to know who someone is in order to talk to them?June 18, 2018 11:23 am at 11:23 am #1541514
yitzchokm -“I didn’t attack anyone.”
I feel so bad for you – you’re just an innocent Victim!
Are you married? Do you smoke where your family breathes it in?
“The voices here that tried portraying smokers as vicious killers are the ones who should be toning it down a bit”
They are killers B’Shogeg. You must of missed my previous post – here it is again:
“I know a Frum couple who died – He from Smoking & his wife from 2nd-hand Smoking.”June 18, 2018 12:56 pm at 12:56 pm #1541604
I don’t talk to babies
I’m not a victim. Nor am I afraid of your hyperbole.
Viewers that are willing to actually go through the entire thread here, would realize that’s my response about the right to smoke came with the backdrop of people like Health, claiming that second-hand smoke is akin to assault or even attempted murder.
As I’ve posted before, although according to Jewish law most rabanim strongly discourage smoking, most agree it’s not completely forbidden. https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/isnt-smoking-אסור#post-1540415
I despise the smell of smoke. I’ve never smoked a day in my life. No one in my immediate family smokes. I have no skin in the game.
When discussing something intelligently, emotion shouldn’t play a role. This is a question of whether or not something is permissible according to Jewish law, and what’s the stablished thing it is, how to deal with Society.
Of course you shouldn’t be a nuisance to others. The question is if you have the right to impose your idea of what’s considered being nice on others. They obviously have an addiction. That’s why they smoke. It’s sad, but that’s the way it is. Not allowing them to smoke in public places is more harmful to them than it is to you.
Health, although you like to portray yourself as a health professional, the fact is this issue has nothing to do with science. It’s your personal feelings in the matter and frankly, you’re wrong.
In a recent study published in the Journal of the National Cancer Institute, headlined “No Clear Link Between Passive Smoking and Lung Cancer” the study proves that second hand smoke, contrary to popular belief, does not cause lung cancer. The only slight statistical increase in lung cancer caused by second-hand smoke, were people living in houses where people smoked constantly. But the increase was so nominal, it’s not considered statistically important. Being exposed to secondhand smoke occasionally has absolutely nothing to do with lung cancer. It’s free to read the study, I’d urge you to read it on your own.June 18, 2018 1:32 pm at 1:32 pm #1541644
What’s the shelah? 1st hand smoke is also dangerous and assur!June 18, 2018 1:40 pm at 1:40 pm #1541653
🐵 ⌨ GamanitParticipant
yitzchokm- why are you only raising the point re lung cancer? That’s not the only smoking related illness. There’s a long list of illnesses as well as other conditions which are worsened by exposure to secondhand smoke. Asthmatic people often have attacks triggered by passing someone smoking on the street.
Even worse- miscarriage and birth defect rates for babies whose fathers are smokers are more than twice the rate of babies whose fathers are non smokers. Smoking kills thousands of unborn children every year. Many men laugh it off but it’s an absolute fact that a father’s health will affect their future children’s health.June 18, 2018 2:15 pm at 2:15 pm #1541658June 18, 2018 2:48 pm at 2:48 pm #1541666
It is not been proven that second-hand smoke causes miscarriage, although, there’s a an increase of risk. Definitely not the cause of thousands and thousands of deaths.
And even the studies that have been performed, it was done in households in which the pregnant woman was constantly exposed to secondhand smoke. Occasional second hand smoke has no known side effects.
In terms of triggering asthma attacks, many, many environmental factors trigger asthma attacks. Yes, secondhand smoke is on the list as well. As is exercise, changes in weather, pollination, some medications, perfume, deodorant, paint, nights, fog, excitement, stress, anger, Etc. Of the hundreds of triggers, second hand smoke is one of them. Banning something because of it is nonsense.June 18, 2018 5:03 pm at 5:03 pm #1541794
It should be banned because it’s unpleasant. People should also not be allowed to roll in stinky garbage and walk down the street like that, or carry lit prank candles in public.June 18, 2018 5:39 pm at 5:39 pm #1541815
yitzchokm -“The only slight statistical increase in lung cancer caused by second-hand smoke, were people living in houses where people smoked constantly. ”
Stop with your PATHETIC Defense of Smoking!
You must of missed my previous post – here it is again:
“I know a Frum couple who died – He from Smoking & his wife from 2nd-hand Smoking.”
So in that case the man smoked in his house.
Is a guy who smokes in his house a Rodef?!?
Try to be honest!!!June 18, 2018 6:12 pm at 6:12 pm #1541819
You skiped the next sentence. “But the increase was so nominal, it’s not considered statistically important.”
Chances are, the wife did not die from secondhand smoke.
Statistically, there is no real difference between secondhand smoke and no second hand Smoke in terms of lung cancer
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