This generation vs. former generations

If the prior generation were people, than we are like donkeys, and not even the donkey of R’ Channia ben Dosa or R’ Pinchas Ben Yair.

Shabbos 112

“Yes, yeridos hadoros is very true unfortunately.”

I don’t think that was the question. The question (made clear in the “confusing” last sentence) was whether the yeridah in this dor was worse than that of previous doros. (It’s a calculus question)

Every generation complains that their kids are worse. It has nothing to do with race, ethnicity, gender, religion or political affiliation. It does seem to be related to age. Every teenager knows this is without justification.

Fifty years ago I clearly knew that the parents were wrong to criticize the younger generation, but now I realize my parents were right, and that of course the next generation is even worse. It started with Adam and Havah (oy, did they have problems with their kids!), and as it has gone on now for over three generations it is a minhag.

How do those expressing a pessimistic view of the generations understand Koheles (8:10): ??? ??????? ??? ????? ???????????? ???????????? ????? ??????? ???????? ???? ??? ????????? ?????????? ??? ???

(“Do not say, “How was it that the former days were better than these?” For not out of wisdom have you asked concerning this.”)

Bluhbluh, if I understand your question correctly, you seem to think the passuk you quoted (which is actually Koheles, 7:10) indicates that we are wrong to think that the “olden days” were better, thus contradicting the Yeridas Hadoros theme of this thread.

I think you misunderstood the passuk.

There are a few ways to translate it, and none contradict the concept of yeridas hadoros. According to Rashi, “Don’t wonder or be surprised at the good reward that the Tzaddikim of earlier generations got, such as dor hamidbar and the doros of Yehoshua and David Hamelech, because everything comes according to the zchus of each generation.” (Please look at the Rashi yourself as my translation is not accurate.)

As for the OP’s question, which I understood as: Was the yeridas hadoros greater in our generation than in previous generations?

I think the answer might be: Yes.

The generation that lived through the Holocaust went through tremendous nisyonos. Those who were in the USA at that time also went through great nisyonos, as shmiras Shabbos was not a simple thing here in the early part of the 20th century. The members of that generation who managed to remain frum, to keep Shabbos and to send their children to Yeshivos were truly remarkable people. Many were actively involved in building Yeshivos and Bais Yaakovs in a spiritual wasteland that did not seem to be fertile ground for such an undertaking.

The post_Holocaust generations (I think we’re just getting started on the third so can we say there are two that have reached the maturity needed to be part of this discussion?) have different nisyonos: They must deal with nisayon of “osher” or wealth as opposed to the suffering of those who raised them (even a poor person today lives with luxuries that were unknown a couple of generations ago), and the great nisyonos that come from living in an immoral society coupled with advances in technology that makes the immorality almost unavoidable.

It would seem to me that our generation is not dealing with its nisyonos as heroically and successfully as those who preceded us, and it looks like we’ve fallen an extra few steps back in addition to the natural step back each generation takes.

I’m open to hear from anyone who disagrees!

golfer: Thank you for correcting my error about the chapter number of the quote.

Yes, you understood my question.

A famous metaphor notes that the view of the giant (i.e., earlier scholars) is superior to that of the dwarf (future generations), but the view of the dwarf standing on the shoulders of the giant is greater still.

This is actually the best generation that has ever been:

1. We are much closer to Moshiach than ANY OTHER generation ever was.

2. We have WAY MORE accumulated zchusim than ANY OTHER generation ever had.

3. We have WAY MORE accumulated yesurim than ANY OTHER generation ever had (and “yesurim mechaprim” “suffering provides atonement”.)

4. MOST importantly of all – I am part of it, and so are you! So smile, and have a great day! 🙂

1 is simple math.

LU,

“This is actually the best generation that has ever been”

How do you know any of those things (besides #4)?”

Reb Yidd:

“1 is simple math.”

So are 2 and 3.

I think that I once heard from Rav Leff, Shlita: Someone asked the Chofetz Chaim how we could be deserving of having Mashiach come in our generation since other generations were better, and he said that we have the accumulated zchusim of all the generations.

There are sources both ways, actually

In many , it is far worse and lower

In some, it is better

this topic is discussed in Pachad Yitzchok

“Back in the 80s”it was even more common! than today the refrain ‘Decline of the Doros’

What topic is discussed in Pachad Yitzchak and in which volume and maamar (I was assuming you meant Rav Hutner, Zatsal’s Seifer?)

Your first supposition is correct

Discussed under the topic of Chanuka