By, on average, 5 IQ points.
And why are taller people smarter than shorter people?
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Why Are Men More Intelligent Than Women?
(116 posts)-
Posted 11 months ago #
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actually i am much smarter than most boys that i know and i am very short(5 feet maybe 5'1) and i am in the top five most intelligent people in my grade.
Posted 11 months ago # -
Do you have studies to support this? I'm skeptical. Besides, IQ is only one of a number of factors in what we generally call intelligence. (Though if both of your premises are correct then your second question answers your first...)
Posted 11 months ago # -
Let me rephrase: "Why are women more intelligent than men?"
Now we can continue discussing. ;)
Posted 11 months ago # -
In a study accepted for publication by the British Journal of Psychology, Dr. Paul Irwing (Manchester Business School, Senior Lecturer in Organizational Psychology) and Prof. Richard Lynn (University of Ulster, Professor Emeritus) conclude that men are on average five points ahead on IQ tests. The study also found that men outnumbered women in increasing numbers as intelligence levels rise. There were twice as many with IQ scores of 125, a level typical for people with first-class degrees. When scores rose to 155, a level associated with genius, there were 5.5 men for every woman.
The male variance in IQ is greater than that for females; Arthur Jensen says this difference is greatest in math and spatial ability. In math the male variance is 1.1 to 1.3 times greater (he does not give the difference for total IQ or g). In the high range, at or above the 98th percentile there are about twice more males than females, while at or above the 99.9th percentile there are about 15 times more males.
Posted 11 months ago # -
Apparently men also have the edge in the imbecilic range, so I'd say that makes us even, no? :)
On a more serious note, you might want to look up your two esteemed professors before relying on their assertions. Both are known for their very controversial stances on holocaust denial and eugenics. It throws a little doubt on their motives and impartiality, I think.
Posted 11 months ago # -
They only THINK they are, because we smart ladies let them!
Posted 11 months ago # -
I took their report since I happened to find it first. But the results are more widely documented. It doesn't stand on those two professors.
Posted 11 months ago # -
Sorry folks, I'm not giving out my secret...
Posted 11 months ago # -
I just told you that you are relying on the research of ardent Neo-Nazis. I rather think you'll have to rebuild your position a little better than that.
Also, think upon the reason why they were the first ones you found.
Posted 11 months ago # -
Neither of them are Neo-Nazis or holocaust deniers or anything remotely similar. I have no idea whatever gave you that idea.
In fact Prof. Lynn authored "The Chosen People: A Study of Jewish Intelligence and Achievement" which documents superior Jewish intelligence.
Posted 11 months ago # -
Ever since the Frenchman Alfred Binet devised the first intelligence test in 1905, study after study has confirmed the same result. Boys and girls may start out with the same IQ but by 16 or so boys are starting to inch ahead. When it comes to IQ, men and women simply are not equal.
A study of 100,000 17- to 18-year-olds on the Scholastic Assessment Test published in the September 2006 issue of the journal Intelligence, has confirmed the finding -- that men have a 5-point IQ advantage over women by adulthood. The study analyzed 145 items from the Scholastic Assessment Test in 100,000 17- to 18-year-olds. At each and every level of family income, for every level of fathers' and of mothers' education, and for each and every one of seven ethnic groups, males had higher G scores than females, the study found. The male-female differences were present at every socioeconomic level, and across several ethnic groups.
The paper's results dovetail with those from several other recently published studies showing that men have a 5-point IQ point advantage over women by late adolescence and early adulthood. Before that age the two sexes are equal in general intelligence. By the time both genders reach 21, men, on average, score five IQ points higher than women. At the near-genius level (an IQ of 145), brilliant men outnumber brilliant women by 8 to one.
In almost 110 years of Nobel Prize history, only two women have ever won the Prize for physics, only four have won the Prize for chemistry and no women at all have ever won the coveted Fields Medal for mathematics in eight decades of trying.
Posted 11 months ago # -
1st of all the study you gave was done by the british! thats not real proof........
2nd of all men are not smarter than women.... You are obviously a man because only a man would post that...... like the famous quote says "behind every great man there is an even greater woman!" we are just smart and let you think you are smarterPosted 11 months ago # -
I don't even get the point. So let's say it's true. Now what? So if someone is choosing whom to affiliate with they know which one to pick? Or does it somehow make you better as a man because you are part of a group with more smart people? What about you Csar? What's your own IQ? Because the fact is if it's lower than, for example, OneOfMany's (which is likely), then you aren't as smart as her no matter how many Nobel Laureates you have on your team. And the only one that defines you is you; if you don't think so you have other issues.
Posted 11 months ago # -
Is the fact that the Jewish People, as a whole, are on average significantly more intelligent than gentiles similarly irrelevant?
I didn't think so.
Posted 11 months ago # -
1. Fine, I’ll spell it out:
"I've checked out Churchill's Second World War and the statement is quite correct - not a single mention of Nazi 'gas chambers,' a 'genocide' of the Jews, or of 'six million' Jewish victims of the war.
"Eisenhower's Crusade in Europe is a book of 559 pages; the six volumes of Churchill's Second World War total 4,448 pages; and de Gaulle's three-volume Mémoires de guerre is 2,054 pages. In this mass of writing, which altogether totals 7,061 pages (not including the introductory parts), published from 1948 to 1959, one will find no mention either of Nazi 'gas chambers,' a 'genocide' of the Jews, or of 'six million' Jewish victims of the war."
- Richard Lynn, Professor Emeritus University of Ulster, December 5, 2005
This is of course a mere scholarly observation, there is no real meaning imputed, of course, hur hur.
And oh that book. Do you really think a secular scientist would document the successes of any particular race merely to laud them? Really? If you actually read through it a bit, his agenda is quite clear - particularly in the bits about the Discrimination, Persecution, and Miscegenation Hypotheses, as they are particularly scintillating. He also forecasts the fall of the Israeli state to the Arabs, which he thinks will for once and for all cause the Jews to assimilate and spread the good genes. And of course, you seem to be willfully ignoring all his other works – all of which overwhelmingly support this unfortunate truth. He is not your friend.
And as for Dr. Irwing, it seems that although he did not support these conclusions at first, he “later was convinced after getting enough evidence on differences in intelligence between racial groups.” Read: after becoming overly acquainted with his research partner's ideals. Good job there, huh?
2. Here's a fun fact: SAT does not stand for "Scholastic Assessment Test." It did, once. And before that, it was even called the "Scholastic Aptitude Test." But now it officially stands for nothing and is just a meaningless acronym. This is because the makers of the the SAT have determined that it does not in any way measure intelligence or scholastic ability. They have finally come to the conclusion that the test is meant to “predict success in college.” Which is very much supported by the fact that a very high score is quite easy to achieve with the only thing that will ever bring you success in college, and in life – hard work. So I guess those researchers didn’t do enough homework beforehand, ‘cuz that news aint so new.
3. Nobel Prize achievements are an incredibly shoddy basis for your argument, for a number of reasons.
a) The studies that you are quoting here impute the predominance of male achievements to factors other than intelligence; namely, the “male hubris”, or dominant/competitive instinct. And you think about it, this is very logical – I mean, does winning a contest mean you are better than any other participant? Success in such cases is achieved by a volatile combination of luck, effort, and most importantly, sheer will to succeed. (And of course, divine assistance, but that is even less quantifiable.)
b) The winning of competitions not an indicator of quantifiable superiority, but the winning of this particular competition is even more so. To attain the highest prize, you can’t just have talent – you’ve got to have the proper connections, the proper reputation, and most importantly, people have to want that you win. The recipient of the 2009 Peace Prize leads me to believe that this factor probably outweighs any actual pretense of aptitude in the given category.
c) Let’s extrapolate this argument. Saying that the fact that there are so few women Nobel Prize winners makes them dumber is sort like saying that the fact that there are so few famous women artists makes that women are no good at art. This is an argument by residue, and as you are not Sherlock Holmes, it does not work here. While the assumed answer is attractive, the more logically imputed answer is that in the past, women did not have the same opportunities to pursue higher education, assume scholarly posts and function in the intellectual community as men did. These factors supersede actual intelligence. The existence of a more logical answer does not actually invalidate your conclusion, of course; however, it does leave it unsubstantiated.
4. Lastly – I’m not going to even attempt to discuss the mechanics of calculating intelligence and even more crucially, collecting upstanding statistical data. It’s frankly way too much for me to take on. However, I do know enough about both to tell you with complete conviction that these issues are way too vast and multifaceted to be clipped down to a carefully selected study or two.
All in all, I’m really sorry, but I have to say this: You are throwing around a bunch of oversimplified assertions that are all too obviously heedlessly cobbled together – and even more reprehensibly, hiding behind Scholarly Names, and leaving out all the Scholarly Debate. And guess what? They're not having this discussion right now - we are. So I think you should exert a little more than your googling abilities if you want to take me on, Mr. Male. ^_^
Posted 11 months ago # -
Thanks for the vote of confidence, yitay. :)
Just to add: I do not believe in “innate intelligence.” I believe that Hashem created the human being with an abstract quality of limitless potential, and that if one truly exerts their innate gifts to the limit in His service, Hashem will add to what might have seemed to be their scope. It is true that some people have more base potential than others, but it is meaningless it terms of the actual manifestation of intelligence. Intelligence is a quality that is fundamentally acquired on exertion, just as any other skill. Like they say, “Your brain is a muscle” (no, it isn’t really). ^_^
Posted 11 months ago # -
Is the fact that the Jewish People, as a whole, are on average significantly more intelligent than gentiles similarly irrelevant?
I don't know, but your argument certainly is.
Posted 11 months ago # -
You are speaking here about academic intelligence, however there are many different kinds of ways to measure intelligence. For one, there is emotional intelligence, in which girls' scores are far superior to boys' scores.
Posted 11 months ago # -
Men may be more intelligent, but women are definitely smarter...
Who writes IQ tests, anyway? They are probably gender-biased. For that matter, the educatinal system for the last many centuries has been gender-biased against women, who weren't allowed access to higher education till about 100 years ago. And then it was something for the wealthy. That would probably explain the Nobel prizes, too. It is only a recently accepted fact that a woman can devote her life to research...Posted 11 months ago # -
the Frenchman Alfred Binet devised the first intelligence test
Now you've answered your question...
Men perform better on IQ tests because the IQ test was developed by a man!
Posted 11 months ago # -
Csar - let them keep telling themselves they are greater and better, and everybody is happy. Us with the truth and them with their poor deluded misguided [blind] defences!!!
Posted 11 months ago # -
To cut right to the chase of the matter, and answer the OP's question as phrased in the title of this thread, Why Are Men More Intelligent Than Women?
Because that's how Hashem created us. Hashem created men and women differently, not equally. Men have their strengths and women have their strengths. Men are involved in intellectual pursuits in life to a far greater degree than women, traditionally. Thus Hashem gave men a stronger intellectual foundation.
Posted 11 months ago # -
Is the fact that the Jewish People, as a whole, are on average significantly more intelligent than gentiles similarly irrelevant?
Yup. But even if it were (true and) relevant, it would be for reasons which don't apply to this argument.
Posted 11 months ago # -
IQ test reflect the cultural similiarities of the test takers to the test writers. Since all test writers are career oriented, but many female test takers are not, they do poorly. For example, IQ tests of Jews in the USA at the start of World War I (when most Jews were yet to be assimilated immigrants) proved that Jews were near-morons, and similar tests taken prior to World War II proved (post-assimilation, and before the holocaust survivors arrived) proved that most Jews were near geniuses.
Posted 11 months ago # -
i love coffe : thanx for writting that
y do u think most girls take an older guy not one her age cuz an older guy would be practically on her intel level one her age would be to low to be able to live w and have a normal conversationPosted 11 months ago # -
I once heard someone theorize that Jews are smarter on average because of natural selection. It was always the best and brightest who married the richest girls (so they could continue learning) and had the most and healthiest kids. Therefore, the average intelligence goes up over time. It's an interesting theory, at the very least.
Posted 11 months ago # -
I think Jews are often the "smartest" people because we are raised with ideals of structure, dedication, and tenacity, all things found in the Torah, and things that a big part of our lives. And those things are key to success in anything. The Japanese are also a people who are raised with similar values, and they are also some of the smartest people.
Posted 11 months ago # -
In case anyone hasn't noticed yet, Csar is another incarnation of Joseph, who is notorious for starting threads stating anything under the sun so long as it puts down women. He provides "proofs" that can easily be matched with counter-proofs, such as that statistically, a lot more boys than girls are in the gifted classes. Anyone with an agenda can prove whatever they want because you can find articles stating just about anything. So that's how Joseph operates; find any statement putting women in an inferior light and start a thread with it. Best thing is to ignore him.
Posted 11 months ago # -
Sorry, gross error: A lot more girls than boys are in the gifted class. I know this because I'm in the educational system and it's a known undisputed fact for anyone working with these classes.
Posted 11 months ago # -
Based on how Hashem created us, He gave WOMEN Binah Yesairah. which gives us the edge, I think.
Posted 11 months ago # -
Doesn't the Gemorah say that while men react with intelligence, women react with emotion? Maybe the same Gemorah with Noshim Daaton Kalos.
Posted 11 months ago # -
If youre male and males are smarter it's no accomplishment.
If females are smarter and youre a smart male you are a one of a kind.Posted 11 months ago # -
OneOfMany -
^_^ +1 to your long post.
Posted 11 months ago # -
And to what do you attribute the statistical fact that from the time IQ's have been measured from over 100 years ago until this very day, that men have consistently and continuously achieve a significantly higher score than women?
Posted 11 months ago # -
Statistics can be manipulated, as we all know. Some males consistently score higher on mathematical portions of IQ tests. Females, however, consistently score significantly higher on the reading comprehension/verbal areas, Since we need to talk and comprehend what we are hearing, a lot more than we need to figure out how fast a train is going to meet up with another train travelling in the opposite direction, I figure that the need for excellent verbal and communication skills is greater. Hence (I LOVE that word), the seichel given to women is more relevant, IMO.
But - you are correct - to the extent that men traditionally were afforded educational and employment opportunities that were frequently denied to women in areas that test their mathematical skills, so that they were unable to discover and hone their innate intellectual abilities until recent decades.
Posted 11 months ago # -
Exactly what I said in my post (did you read it?). Your argument and its basis were reached by a gross oversimplification of the actual statistical data and the studies done on it. You are assuming that you fully understand research that scientists have debated for a very long time, and believe that the conclusion you chose is therefore unquestionably more accurate than all others. You already reached this conclusion before finding evidence, and are willfully ignoring all evidence to the contrary (and there is plenty), and the multitude of different explanations and hypotheses. Like I said, I am not interested in parrying Scholarly Names as neither you not I represent them properly. So please drop the act already.
I think that this is what we really should be arguing: does your motivation in all of this have to do with the roles of men and women in Yiddishkeit? If that is the case, why do you have to insist that men are "smarter"? Hahsem created men and women differently to fulfill different roles. If you say the difference is intrinsic in intelligence - even a man and woman of the same intelligence are still different. And a woman he is more intelligent than the average man still can't fulfill a man's role. And unquestionably, if Hashem wanted men to be unequivocally "smarter" than women, He could have made it so. Why can't you just accept that Hashem's motivation (kaviyachol) is whatever it is, and can't be reconciled to your own understanding? I think most women are able to do this...so why can't you?
Posted 11 months ago # -
Are men smarter than women? No. But they sure think they are. An analysis of some 30 studies by British researcher Adrian Furnham, a professor of psychology at University College London, shows that men and women are fairly equal overall in terms of IQ. But women, it seems, underestimate their own candlepower (and that of women in general), while men overestimate theirs. Furnham talks to NEWSWEEK's Joan Raymond about his findings and why perceived IQ matters. Excerpts:
NEWSWEEK: Many studies show that men score slightly higher in IQ tests. Is this significant?
Adrian Furnham: Universally, men tend to score higher on certain specialized skills, such as spatial awareness. In the real world, that means they might be better at reading maps or navigating. Women score higher in terms of language development and emotional intelligence. But most experts agree there is no real, important overall difference when it comes to gender and intelligence.But women think they aren't as smart as men?
That's the conundrum. What I study is "perceived intelligence," essentially how smart people think they are. I analyzed 30 international studies, and what I found was that women, across the world, tend to underplay their intelligence, while men overstate it.So do most men think they're Albert Einstein?
There certainly is a greater male ego. It's what we call the male hubris and female humility effect. Men are more confident about their IQ. These studies show that on average, women underestimate their IQ scores by about five points while men overestimate their own IQs. Since these studies were international in scope, the results were essentially the same whether women were from Argentina, America, Britain, Japan or Zimbabwe. Another factor affecting perception may be distribution of IQ ... Although [men and women] are on average the same, the people at the very top and the very bottom of the IQ bell curve are more likely to be men. That is a pattern that we see in the university setting, with men either being at the very top of the class or at the bottom.Do women tend to think that men are smarter than they are?
Surprisingly, [both] men and women perceive men being smarter across generations. Both sexes believe that their fathers are smarter than their mothers and grandfathers are more intelligent than their grandmothers.What about the kids?
If there are children, [both] men and women think their sons are brighter than their daughters.Did the data surprise you?
Absolutely. And it is worrying in the sense that it may mean parents send inappropriate or misleading messages to their children about their abilities. It is also surprising since school results, at least in Great Britain, indicate quite clearly that girls are doing better than boys in nearly all subjects. What was interesting was that some groups of people, both men and women, got it so wrong. Men with average to below-average intelligence think that they are quite clever. And very smart women think their intelligence is low.Does any of this matter in the real world?
Men aren't more clever or smarter. But since they think they are, they are more confident about their abilities. These self-beliefs, however, may be highly adaptive. Who gets a job? A bright woman who doesn't think she's smart, or a not-so-bright man who believes he's capable of anything? Arrogance and hubris are not attractive qualities, but confident, self-belief may be. Certainly, underestimating abilities might hurt you. There's a good quote from one of your countrymen, Henry Ford. He says: "Whether you believe you can do a thing or not, you are right." And that is what is troublesome. Beliefs may be more important than actual ability in certain settings.So women have a self-esteem problem?
I'm not advocating for self-esteem training and therapy. I think that many of the self-help gurus argue incorrectly that improved self-esteem increases performance. Helping people to perform better increases their self esteem. Giving a kind of carte blanche to self-esteem isn't a good idea in my mind. Rather, I think it should be that increased performance and feedback on the causes of that performance, ability or effort raises self-esteem. As I said, in primary and secondary schools, girls are outperforming boys. And where appropriate, their self-beliefs, hopefully, are increasing.Do you get a lot of flack for this kind of gender research?
I study perceived intelligence. I don't research whether gender differences in intelligence are innate. That always sparks controversy. But anytime you talk about intelligence and gender, people will have strong feelings about it. Look what happened to [Larry] Summers of Harvard [the former president of the university was lambasted for suggesting that women are underrepresented in the sciences at least partly due to inherent differences in intellectual ability between the sexes]. I just let the data speak for itself. Nonetheless, sometimes I think you have to be stupid, brave or just plain naive to work in this area.Posted 11 months ago # -
Yes, I read it. And you have not addressed the most basic and simple fact:
Why do men have a significantly higher IQ than women?
This is true across the board. And the differences become even greater as you start dealing with smarter people.
Why are there twice as many men with an IQ of 125 as there are women? Why are there 5.5 times as many men with an IQ of 155 as there are women? Why at the near-genius level brilliant men outnumber brilliant women by 8 to one? Why at or above the 99.9th percentile there are about 15 times more males?
Disregard, if you wish, any research, studies, hypothesis and/or conclusions I earlier presented. Please, as simple or complex as you desire, explain your explanations or hypothesis for this disparity between men and women.
Truthfully, I expect you to further obfuscate rather than address the issue as you evidently have no credible counterargument.
Posted 11 months ago # -
OOM: I think what he means is that if you combine the IQ of all of his accounts, it adds up to five points higher than the average woman.
Posted 11 months ago # -
Csar - What is your IQ? Just wondering.
Posted 11 months ago # -
Csar: That doesn't prove that men are smarter than women, only that more men deviate from the mean than women.
Posted 11 months ago # -
As a high IQ male, may I suggest that the woen lower their innate IQs by squeezing into high heel shoes two sizes too small. Just my theory.
Posted 11 months ago # -
I would like to disregard all your studies, but everything in this paragraph
Why are there twice as many men with an IQ of 125 as there are women? Why are there 5.5 times as many men with an IQ of 155 as there are women? Why at the near-genius level brilliant men outnumber brilliant women by 8 to one? Why at or above the 99.9th percentile there are about 15 times more males?
is STILL part and parcel of selected studies. And there are different studies that do not support these findings. And I still am not interested fighting that battle with you.
So why don't you disregard all the studies you've seen and explain what basis you have for thinking men are more intelligent than women? And withing that answer, please have the courtesy to address this:
I think that this is what we really should be arguing: does your motivation in all of this have to do with the roles of men and women in Yiddishkeit? If that is the case, why do you have to insist that men are "smarter"? Hahsem created men and women differently to fulfill different roles. If you say the difference is intrinsic in intelligence - even a man and woman of the same intelligence are still different. And a woman he is more intelligent than the average man still can't fulfill a man's role. And unquestionably, if Hashem wanted men to be unequivocably "smarter" than women, He could have made it so. Why can't you just accept that Hashem's motivation (kaviyachol) is whatever it is, and can't be reconciled to your own understanding? I think most women are able to do this...so why can't you?
P.S. Before you spruce your up vocabulary, you might want to work on your topic headings. Try googling "capitalization in titles," and find a result that references the Chicago Manual of Style. I think this one is okay, but it will probably make it harder for me to spot your multiple identities in the future, so I suggest you go for it.
Posted 11 months ago # -
yitay: It isn't relevant. An anecdotal comparison of mine to someone else here is inconsequential. And regardless, I'll be charged with either hubris or deceit. Suffice to say, I'd be accepted by Mensa (if I cared to, which I don't) in an instant.
Sam: It is true that at both ends of the extremes of the spectrum there is a widening gap between the genders. Nevertheless the point remains, as the mean male IQ is 5 points higher than the mean female IQ.
OOM: All studies conclude that males have a higher average IQ. It isn't in dispute, as it well shouldn't be. It is simply a compilation of testing results. The only differences between studies is a small difference of how much higher males score (though even on that point there isn't significant deviation - some may have it at 4 IQ points) and what to attribute the reason for the difference to. The most common explanation I've seen to explain why men have a higher IQ, according to academic studies, is because men have a larger brain size (physically).
And this has held true for a century. They generally categorize the IQ difference between males and females as a small but significant difference. (And, no, the discussion here isn't based on Yiddishkeit.)
P.S. While I may have capitalized this thread title, in the past I hadn't but a mod edited to capitalize the first letter of each word. It happened a couple of times, so I got the point to save them the trouble (if I applied it here - I don't recall). It seems to be site policy, albeit inconsistently applied. The New York Times does the same, generally.
Posted 11 months ago # -
The IQ test until very recently was entirely irrelevant. The early IQ tests did not judge intelligence. "What is Smith & Wesson a popular brand of?" was a question on the original IQ test.
Posted 11 months ago # -
I have no idea what my IQ is. My parents never let me get tested (and I really wanted to when I was younger). And now that I'm old enough to get it done on my own, I don't even want to. Do you want to know why? When I asked my parents why they wouldn't let me get tested, they told me that they didn't want me to get tested because it would be the worst thing they could do to me. I invested so my of my self-worth in that number that if I got a really high score, become complacent and lose my drive to work hard, and if I got a score lower than I expected, I would become depressed and not care about success anymore. And regardless of what I got, there would always come a day when I found someone with a higher IQ, which of course would shatter my illusions of superiority. They didn't let me get tested because they wanted to instill in me the knowledge that the numbers are completely meaningless. They have no effect on your life. The only thing that will prove your intelligence is how you use and develop it. And that is what I believe, and I know it's worth believing, because my parents' successes are something to strive for.
Posted 11 months ago # -
Women used guns in the wild west, too.
Posted 11 months ago # -
All studies conclude that males have a higher average IQ.
And you know this how...? Because you've conducted all of them? I suggest you look harder.Agav, the brain size thing is a poor explanation. The brain of the average child is smaller than the brain of a mentally retarded adult, yet the child's cognitive abilities are clearly superior. There may be a correlation between brain size and cognitive ability, but it cannot be a definitive explanation.
(And, no, the discussion here isn't based on Yiddishkeit.)
Oho. Then what is it based on?P.S. What are you talking about? I don't think it's the same thing that I'm talking about.
Posted 11 months ago # -
I think that during many of the testing years, women were brought up to believe that it is unladylike to appear smarter than a man, so they played dumb. They might have done the same in school, deliberately lowering their test scores, in order to not appear superior to the boys they were trying to impress. Though this may sound simplistic, it is not untrue.
Posted 11 months ago #
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