September 20, 2012 4:37 am at 4:37 am #1138497Sam2Participant
Ready now: Being wrong doesn’t make you less smart. He starts from a different place and therefore gets different answers. I know G-d exists. Hawking doesn’t. Does that make me smarter than Hawking? Of course not. That would be absurd. There is a Brachah to be made on Chochmei Umos Ha’olam. Don’t deny what HKBH created just because you don’t like what Hawking believes.
(There is a famous story about a Talmid of R’ Chaim Soloveitchik who became a physicist and worked with Einstein. The quote attributed to him, I believe, is, “Einstein had a better Kop but R’ Chaim had a better Koach Hahesber.”)September 20, 2012 10:39 am at 10:39 am #1138498ready nowParticipant
Sam2, yes certainly, that Hawking exists, we know, and that Hashem created him.
We can all make a bracha on seeing Hawking if we ever see him, no denying it. However even a genius must entertain the possibility of a Creator, and for that reason I see a deficit.September 20, 2012 12:47 pm at 12:47 pm #1138499bubkaParticipant
Whereas men tend to respond intellectually to situations, women more often respond emotionally.
This fact is not only acknowledged in the human sciences but is often alluded to in Torah sources.September 20, 2012 2:53 pm at 2:53 pm #1138500yehudayonaParticipant
csar writes: Gottfredson asserted that “Intelligence as measured by IQ tests is the single most effective predictor known of individual performance at school and on the job.”
Depends on the job. Stephen Hawking would not make a good surgeon. I wouldn’t hire Einstein as a hairdresser.September 20, 2012 5:29 pm at 5:29 pm #1138501icedMember
Obviously Gottfredson is referring to a comparison between two individuals performing the same job, with the same training background, one with a higher IQ and the other with a lower IQ.September 20, 2012 6:47 pm at 6:47 pm #1138502computer777Participant
I saw this on a website:
There are at least 150 genes linked to intelligence on the X chromosome, and verbal IQ is definitely known to be X-linked.
A female inherits x from father and x from mother. They will both influence her intelligence – I guess giving her the average of both parents. A male inherits the x chomorsome only from his mother. That means a male’s intelligences will only be influenced by one x chomrosome – his mother’s. This can explain why so many more males than females have IQs below 70 but also why 20% more males than females have IQs above 140.September 23, 2012 2:43 am at 2:43 am #1138503yehudayonaParticipant
There was an interesting article in Friday’s WSJ entitled “Are We Really Getting Smarter? Why IQ Scores Keep Rising.” It’s available to read online. It points out that a century ago, most people didn’t have much use for or experience with abstractions. I was thinking that this certainly isn’t the case for learning gemarah. That could explain why Jews have accomplished so much in intellectual fields.September 23, 2012 3:04 pm at 3:04 pm #1138504HealthParticipant
bubka -“Whereas men tend to respond intellectually to situations, women more often respond emotionally.
This fact is not only acknowledged in the human sciences but is often alluded to in Torah sources.”
This I think this is Pshat in the Posuk of “Even one out of a thousand I didn’t find”. The Gemorah explains that by men 1 out of a thousand become a Poisek. But what did Shloimah Hamelech mean that you don’t even find one out of a thousand by women? He can’t mean you don’t find one of a thousand women becoming Poiskim, because women aren’t trying to become Poiskim.
He was talking about intelligence. Am I saying that even one out of a thousand women aren’t intelligent? No.
But in a situation were intelligence and emotions collide, emotions will take over in more than a thousand women!September 24, 2012 10:31 am at 10:31 am #1138505just my hapenceParticipant
As a psychology undergrad, I’d just like to contribute (as my name suggests) my ha’pence ‘orth… (for those who don’t know it’s an old phrase from here in North West England for ‘my little bit’).
There seems to be much confusion about IQ and what it is and isn’t. IQ testing was developed in the early 20th Century by Binet and Simon as a measure of child cognitive development and not as one of intelligence per se. It is therefore a useful diagnostic tool for SpLDs (specific learning difficulties) such as dyslexia or dyspraxia; it is not a ‘who’s cleverer than who’ contest. It is true that organisations like MENSA use it as a criterion for membership, however this is coupled with other tests.
Further, from a purely psychological perspective there is no actual single definition of ‘intelligence’ and as such is referred to as being ‘context-specific’. Even academic intelligence, such as mathematical ability, is context-specific, see Nunes and Bryant “Children doing Mathematics” (1996) where Brazilian children’s mathematical ability differed depending on the setting (market/school).
And on the whole Gedolim more intelligent than scientists/philosophers thing. Twaddle. Rubbish. Hevel havolim. Just because someone is a gadol does not mean that they are, by definition, a prodigal genius who’s mental acuity outstrips even the greatest mind that the non-Jewish world has to offer. People who aren’t frum Jews can be intelligent, perhaps even more so than gedolim. Chochmo bagoyim ta’amin, kabel ho’emes mi’mi she’omro. These are the words of Chazal, not some throw-away to be followed by ‘yeah, but…’. Just because you are wrong, or hold views that are heretical does not make you less intelligent than someone who’s views are not. I’m pretty confident that Isaac Newton was a lot cleverer than me. Well, at least he had a higher IQ anyway…November 5, 2012 1:41 pm at 1:41 pm #1138507VicroyMember
Secondly, most people have a tendency to indulge in self flattery and, at the same time, be in denial of any facts that hurt their egos. Most of the posters on this board, being Jews, are quite willing to accept the evidence for superior average IQ of Jews. YET, being feminists, they deny the equally if not more CLEAR and OVERWHELMING evidence for male superiority over females in natural ability for great intellectual achievements. They accept one set of evidence because it fits their egotistic interests but they reject and make all kinds of excuses for the other because it goes against those same interests.
Meanwhile, males, especially in the western world, have been cowed into keeping quiet over this glaring disparity in natural ability and to instead continuously promote ridiculous excuses to cover up for females. Of course, there is also the fact that most males tend to be chivalrous and feel the need to protect the tender feelings of females as a master would protect the fur of his pet. I have been guilty of this many times myself. However, there comes a time when one just has to call a spade a spade.November 5, 2012 4:36 pm at 4:36 pm #1138508HealthParticipant
Vicroy – While your post makes sense, I’d like to discuss another aspect of woman’s lib since you mentioned the subject.
Where did the Yetzer Hora of Woman’s lib become stronger than self-preservation? While there are definitely women who you can characterize as Amazon women, most aren’t like this. But modern society has decided that they can function equally as men in such professions that people depend on for their life. For example, they have women police and firefighters. Most of these women in these types of professions aren’t Amazon women. So just for our society to be PC we are willing to put our lives in danger. Sometimes to save s/o’s life you just need brute strength, intelligence just isn’t enough!November 5, 2012 5:00 pm at 5:00 pm #1138509flowersParticipant
Meanwhile, males, especially in the western world, have been cowed into keeping quiet over this glaring disparity in natural ability and to instead continuously promote ridiculous excuses to cover up for females.
Describe of how males have had to be cowed into keep quiet about this oh so ridiculous notion that females might be at least as intelligence as men. Why is it even an issue?
Of course, there is also the fact that most males tend to be chivalrous and feel the need to protect the tender feelings of females as a master would protect the fur of his pet.
There are smart people. There are less smart people. Both male have female must give them respect whether they are male or female. Your above statement is ridiculous. There is no reason to hurt less intelligent people’s feelings. And in this, females are much less likely to hurt a male’s feelings who they deem less intelligent then males would hurt a less intelligent female.
However, there comes a time when one just has to call a spade a spade.
and here is one of those times that you must call attention to that? Exactly why is it important for this forum to be the place to do it? How does it help your “cause”? If you kept quiet, how would it hurt you?November 5, 2012 6:47 pm at 6:47 pm #1138510CuriosityParticipant
Whats wrong with you people? Why do you keep bringing up these stupid, immature, misogynistic threads? Do you really have such low self esteem? It’s a chilul Hashem and disgusting… And this is coming from a man……………… A single, tall, handsome man… 😉November 5, 2012 8:39 pm at 8:39 pm #1138511ZeesKiteParticipant
Curiosity: And you just helped bring it back again. By bumping it. (and now me)November 6, 2012 12:36 am at 12:36 am #1138512CuriosityParticipant
…yeah I know, but it was already up at the top when I commented on it. (Your turn…)November 6, 2012 6:19 am at 6:19 am #1138513ZeesKiteParticipant
No. I will not.February 23, 2016 6:34 pm at 6:34 pm #1138514JosephParticipant
Perhaps what is needed is affirmative action programs for the less intelligent.February 23, 2016 6:46 pm at 6:46 pm #1138515Little FroggieParticipant
.. As I said before.. I will not..
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