June 18, 2012 1:34 am at 1:34 am #1138446popa_bar_abbaParticipant
I never thought women were dumb. But then I read this thread where they are actually bothering to argue about it.June 18, 2012 1:35 am at 1:35 am #1138447
You have no right to talk, you troll you. 😛June 18, 2012 2:11 am at 2:11 am #1138448Ben LeviParticipant
Whats the big Deal?
It’s pretty sad that the secular and certain parts of the religous world have basically become captive to a feminist ideology.
Nevermind the facts on the ground that feminism has basically destroyed the family unit as well as led to the unfortunate situation where women now demonstrate their right to show no self-respec to themselves.
One of the core tragedies of feminism is that it seems to feel that men are better then women and had more fulfilling lives then women and thierfore it is a “womens right” to be the same as a man.
Judaisim teaches that men and women are not just physically different rather they are intrinsically different and each play seperate and distinct roles that together complete the picture.
As such the male brain is wired for the male purpose in life, to enable the male to accomplish the male purpose of life.
The female brain is different as it is wired to enable the female to accomplish the female purpose in life.
Hence men think logically as they are required to learn and fill other logical roles while women hink emotionally as the amazing womanly ability to think emotianally enables her to feel the needs of her family in a way that logic alone cannot.
Hence an iq test has absolutley no real bearing on matters at all.June 18, 2012 2:54 am at 2:54 am #1138449NEEDIDEASMember
Really!!!June 18, 2012 2:50 pm at 2:50 pm #1138450BTGuyParticipant
That statement had to be made by a man. And it is not such an intelligent statement. The real intelligence are from the ones who lets the others feel they are more intelligent.June 18, 2012 4:34 pm at 4:34 pm #1138451NEEDIDEASMember
Everyone is intelligent!!!June 18, 2012 6:44 pm at 6:44 pm #1138452tahiniMember
women have always had to hide their intelligence, a lot of men are nervous of clever women. In some societies women are taught ot appear submissive to make men feel superior, instead of openly showing their intellect a lot of women sadly have learnt to manipulate things in a subtle way.
As for Jews and intelligence, one of my favourite Americans, Mark Twain was a big admirer and recognised the Jewish intellect and power of resilience.June 18, 2012 8:16 pm at 8:16 pm #1138453MCPMember
Because making a sandwich doesn’t require that much intelligence.June 18, 2012 8:31 pm at 8:31 pm #1138454walton157Member
@Oomiss: Exactly what my mother taught me……June 18, 2012 9:42 pm at 9:42 pm #1138455oomisParticipant
“I never thought women were dumb. But then I read this thread where they are actually bothering to argue about it. “
And then I read this thread where men like Popa are posting these oh so witty remarks.
“Oomiss: Exactly what my mother taught me……”
Hi walton157. How are you?June 19, 2012 9:31 am at 9:31 am #1138456wanderingchanaParticipant
OOM +1,000,000June 19, 2012 7:55 pm at 7:55 pm #1138457TheGoqParticipant
I have totally ignored this thread did not read one post the title is demeaning to 50 percent of the worlds population.June 19, 2012 9:48 pm at 9:48 pm #1138458
Why would you think that being a bit less smart than someone else is demeaning?
Would anyone find it demeaning to be told that Rav Moshe Feinstein (or, l’havdil, Albert Einstein) is smarter than them?June 20, 2012 12:46 am at 12:46 am #1138459
Abe: I can think of someone who would. Telling Steven Hawking that Einstein is smarter than him is demeaning and insulting. So too, stating unequivocally that men are smarter than women is demeaning.June 20, 2012 1:12 am at 1:12 am #1138460
wanderingchana: lol thanks. ^_^June 20, 2012 2:08 am at 2:08 am #1138461zichmichMember
keep tryingJune 20, 2012 2:16 am at 2:16 am #1138462
Sam: I disagree. Especially if it is true. Or even if it is arguably so. Say someone argued Asians are more intelligent than Africans. I believe that is factual. Someone else can reasonably disagree. Nevertheless, no one should delegitamize the argument or discussion.June 20, 2012 2:48 am at 2:48 am #1138464
Abe Cohen: When there is a legitimate, unbiased, inherently fair way to judge intelligence then I’ll completely agree that there’s nothing wrong with saying it on average, which really has nothing to do with any individuals anyway.June 20, 2012 3:17 am at 3:17 am #1138465oomisParticipant
If you want to say that R’Moshe Zt”l or EVEN S.Hawking are smarter than I, I can totally live with that. But when you apply the same statement as a generality to half of the population, I have to question the integrity of the so-called statistics and who their compilers are.June 20, 2012 3:28 am at 3:28 am #1138466
It is not demeaning to “half the population” this is a classic percentage versus number flaw – not all men are smarter than all women. i happen to disagree with the premise anyway as the iq test is a poor judge of over all intelligence anyway. women are smarter than men in ways that do not show up on iq tests. i could cite many examples of people who tested low on their iq tests who are absolute geniuses – a person who was dyslexic for example would be more likely to test low but would be also just as likely to be as smart if not smarter than you or i. this is just one in a group of many flaws in the test and it is not that well regarded by psychologists or researchers today to be an accurate depiction of a persons intelligence.June 20, 2012 7:27 pm at 7:27 pm #1138467thinkingverydeeplyMember
I think anybody believing this theory has to have their head tested. There are so much more intelligent women then men. Women don’t tend to brag, act arrogantly or even seek fame anywhere as much as men. Its the way Hashem made it, the men thrive on fame, are motivated by it, without it most men wouldn’t do a thing. Its not for nothing that you don’t see much women being leaders in klal yisroel, women don’t need this element to thrive, their much happier to do it in quieter, more constructive ways.June 20, 2012 9:32 pm at 9:32 pm #1138468
What is more constructive than being a leader in Klal Yisroel, if I may dare ask?June 20, 2012 9:53 pm at 9:53 pm #1138469always runs with scissors fastParticipant
Actually there are studies that show a woman’s brain shrinks during pregnancy. I guess due to hormones. But I always thought that was the case anyways, when I started forgetting everything when Pregnant. I think it grows back though. I dont know. Like its just temporary.June 21, 2012 6:06 pm at 6:06 pm #1138470HaLeiViParticipant
I have no patience or desire to verify the assumption of the OP. However, a difference of 5 points is much less thn the difference between one family and the next.
Another point is that women don’t need a higher IQ to win an argument. They do a good job without it.June 21, 2012 11:25 pm at 11:25 pm #1138471
The OP made no assumption. Multiple studies were cited (in follow up comments) by various independent academic researchers in different parts of the globe and more can be produced upon demand. No one has thus far cited any opposing scientific research that reaches a different conclusion. A 5 point difference is indeed small but nevertheless significant, with an average IQ score being 100. Additionally, is there any research indicating IQ has any correlation to family, as your comment seems to imply?June 22, 2012 12:16 am at 12:16 am #1138472
Welcome back, Mr. Mensa…ah, you forgot to respond to this:June 22, 2012 12:46 am at 12:46 am #1138473
The op made a very big assumption – namely that higher iq = more intelligent.June 22, 2012 12:50 am at 12:50 am #1138474
OOM: The idea that men’s physically larger brains may account for their greater average IQ is an idea cited as a possible explanation by the various academic researchers previously discussed.
The point of this discussion wasn’t to tie it in to Yiddishkeit but rather its scientific and academic discussion and research on the subject.
And the title’s capitalization was mod edited post-submission of the OP.
jbaldy: Do you have a better method of measuring intelligence? Or do you suppose intelligence cannot be comparatively measured today utilizing current tools?June 22, 2012 3:31 am at 3:31 am #1138475HealthParticipant
tahini -“As for Jews and intelligence, one of my favourite Americans, Mark Twain was a big admirer and recognised the Jewish intellect and power of resilience.”
He must have been talking about Jewish males. I never heard of a guy NAMED Mark Twain.June 22, 2012 4:00 am at 4:00 am #1138476
Csar: Neanderthals (cro-magnons?) have bigger brains than humans. Does that make them smarter (for the sake of this discussion, we’ll pretend that they existed in this or some other Gilgul).June 22, 2012 4:13 am at 4:13 am #1138477
Within human population, studies have been conducted to determine whether there is a relationship between brain size and a number of cognitive measures. Anthropologists and psychometricians found correlations, and modern studies began with Van Valen 1974, which suggested a correlation of 0.3. Jensen & Johnson’s 1994 “Race and sex differences in head size and IQ” wrote of the successive literature that:
“In all of the 25 independent studies we have found in the literature, nonzero positive correlations between head measurements and intelligence measurements have been found, all but five with correlations significant beyond the .05 confidence level. The average correlation between various external measures of head size and IQ is close to + .15. Two recent studies have measured brain size per se by means of magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) and found correlations with IQ in the .30 to .40 range (Andreasen et al., 1993; Willerman, Schultz, Rutledge, & Bigler, 1991).”
Nguyen & McDaniel’s 2000 meta-analysis found similarly, as did McDaniel’s 2005 “Big-brained people are smarter: A meta-analysis of the relationship between in vivo brain volume and intelligence”:
“…based on 37 samples across 1530 people, the population correlation was estimated at 0.33…For external head measures, Vernon et al. (2000) reported the population correlation between head size and intelligence to be 0.19. Nguyen and McDaniel (2000) reported population correlations from 0.17 to 0.26 for three different sub-categories of external head size measures.June 22, 2012 11:42 am at 11:42 am #1138478phrumMember
Social preference for height
Both subconsciously Inform every human interaction from birth leading to continual subtle and drastic imbalances in opportunity and experience, including developmentally and educationally.June 22, 2012 1:52 pm at 1:52 pm #1138479
@Csar iq places a disproportional weight on certain areas of intelligence. statisticians tend to like iq and most others ie psychologists and scientists tend to think it is not nearly as good of a metric as the general populace thinks it is. IQ measures something and it seems to do that reliably but to say it measures overall intelligence is largely unsupported by modern science. I do not know what tools are out as this is not my field so i cant give a definitive answer as to which test might be better.June 22, 2012 3:15 pm at 3:15 pm #1138480
IQ is the most researched approach to intelligence and by far the most widely used in practical setting. One of the most notable proponents of the IQ is Linda S. Gottfredson, a scientist and educator who published a highly-regarded article in Scientific American. Gottfredson asserted that “Intelligence as measured by IQ tests is the single most effective predictor known of individual performance at school and on the job.”
Another leading figure in the study of intelligence, Dr. Arthur Jensen, Professor Emeritus of educational psychology at the University of California, Berkeley, has created a chart that spells out the practical implications of various IQ scores.June 22, 2012 5:48 pm at 5:48 pm #1138481computer777Participant
First of all many statistics are skewed due to bias.
Second: Men are more time to pursue more education than women since it’s more important for women to take care of their families then studying to gain more knowledge that they don’t need. Of course, if they can do both, or they don’t have children, and they want to pursue more knowledge, then they should.
Third: as everyone said, IQ do not necessarily acurately rate a person’s intelligence.
Abe Cohen: If kids in a classroom ware made up of two different nationalities – 50% each, and a teacher came in and said kids from one of those nationalies is smarter than the other kids, that would be an insult. Telling the class one kid from the whole class is the smartest, and s/he clearly is, most wouldn’t be insulted, maybe a bit jealous, but it’s not demeaning – except for those students are are very smart too.June 22, 2012 11:04 pm at 11:04 pm #1138482
@Csar you are just proving my point – a person could be great at school or a job and have no social skills and not remember where they left their glasses the night before. i agree that iq is a valid tool i just dont think it measures over all intelligence. see my previous comment about dyslexia which you still havent answered.July 16, 2012 7:37 pm at 7:37 pm #1138483
And now according to the latest testing women have actually overtaken men in IQ scores.July 16, 2012 8:18 pm at 8:18 pm #1138484
The story says this is the first time in hundreds of years this happened (all previous studies showed the opposite effect), so it is likely an anomaly. And that it is based on a study that hasn’t even been released yet, conducted by some professor in New Zealand, who himself says more data is needed.July 16, 2012 10:36 pm at 10:36 pm #1138485golferParticipant
Can’t say i know much about the topic at hand. (Lack of intelligence?)
But after reading, or trying to get through some of the posts, one thing becomes clear to me: Not convinced one way or the other about how intelligent your average lady is, but women DEFINITELY have 9 kavim of speech.
As opposed to, for instance, poppa bar abba & MCP (are you both men?) who can sum up the results of all their research in one concise sentence.July 17, 2012 1:01 pm at 1:01 pm #1138486ChortkovParticipant
Is there something there that will make men better???July 17, 2012 3:56 pm at 3:56 pm #1138487July 17, 2012 8:38 pm at 8:38 pm #1138488Shopping613 🌠Participant
The title of this thread is VERY offensive..it should be changed…to maybe…:
Why we know women are more intelligent than men
that makes ALOT more senseJuly 17, 2012 9:16 pm at 9:16 pm #1138489
Other than the anomaly of that still unreleased study by some New Zeland professor that you referenced, all the previous studies have shown a disparity of IQ between men and women, with men consistently higher with a stable differential.July 17, 2012 10:12 pm at 10:12 pm #1138490abba_murray_bar_popaParticipant
“why are men more intelligent than women”
Why is the pope always a catholic? I dunno.July 17, 2012 11:24 pm at 11:24 pm #1138491farrockgrandmaParticipant
hmmm. The latest studies show women’s IQs to be about 5 points higher than men’s. (maybe you all have been reading the news from right to left!)July 18, 2012 12:09 am at 12:09 am #1138492
farrock: It’s not studies, but rather one unreleased recent study by a professor in New Zealand (brought up by jbaldy above) that is at odds with all previous studies, and the professor himself saying more data is needed. I addressed the anomaly.September 20, 2012 1:13 am at 1:13 am #1138493superstarMember
Think about it this way: if someone were to raise 30 boys and 30 girls and teach them the exact same things (in the same way) for their entire life, give them tests and find out their IQ…. Could you really say that the boys are smarter? I think not!
One may only be able to say that guys know physics or calculus or whatever because they (wanted to and) learned it, but a girl has the same brain capabilities and can learn/retain as much knowledge as any man. (if not more.) No matter how many studies are done, no one can actually generalize and say for sure that one gender is smarter or dumber than another.
And even if some men were smarter in one area, woman are smarter in the other.
BTW the professors were male. Find me a female proffesor that will prove her gender is dumb!September 20, 2012 1:38 am at 1:38 am #1138494Some Common SenseParticipant
Look people, after some more life experience, you will learn they are not!September 20, 2012 2:31 am at 2:31 am #1138495WIYMember
You may want to google this
“Women Beat Men on IQ Tests For First Time”September 20, 2012 2:40 am at 2:40 am #1138496ready nowParticipant
To even mention Hawking in the same breath as Rav Moshe Feinstein is really tooo much. The superlative intellect of the Rav is already established.
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