I am a balebos who lives out of town and comes into Lakewood periodically for work. On a recent occasion, I had to leave my home town without catching a minyan for Shacharis first. I figured that I could easily daven in Lakewood, and so I keyed the address of a well-known chassidishe beis medrash off of Rt. 70 into my Google Maps. The office is right near Rt. 70, and I was very pleased with how seamless my experience promised to be. Unfortunately, I was about to meet with disappointment.
I am no longer a kollel yungerman, and during the summer months I frequently do not wear a hat and jacket to davening. I recognize that many rabbanim hold that a hat and suit jacket is required for davening; doubtless, YWN’s worldly readers are aware that many other rabbanim do not hold these to be a requirement. It is not my business to tell anyone what to do, and I applaud each individual’s choice to respectfully adhere to the standard he holds for himself. However, I quickly learned that my sentiment is not shared by others. Upon arrival to the shul, I was greeted by a sign which made clear that without a suit jacket, I was not welcome to daven at that beis medrash.
I had very little time to change my plans and had to determine what to do quickly. Usually, I stash a jacket in my car in case of emergency, but I did not have one on this occasion. With little other choice, I shamefacedly turned around and left the shul, choosing instead to hurriedly daven beyechidus before my first meeting of the day. The thought crossed my mind that perhaps this rule was not really enforced, but I was too embarrassed and uncomfortable to risk the awkwardness of finding out. It was a real disappointment.
I recognize that surely some readers will think: after all, there are many batei medrash in Lakewood in which to daven. This chassidus is certainly entitled to the post and enforce whatever rules they choose in the shul that they have built. And I absolutely agree! We live in a free country. However, it is one thing to stipulate that certain extra standards must be upheld by chazzonim, or even local community members. But to exclude another Yid from davening? Over a disagreement about personal sartorial conduct?
As a contrast, let me provide two examples. I travel often and have had many occasions to participate in davening, meals or the like at Chabad houses. At Chabad, no one is turned away, most certainly not over wearing a jacket. That is not to say that Chabad doesn’t have its own standards! Chabad chassidim may not cut their beards. They are expected to wear a hat and a gartel at davening. But no Chabad shliach has ever made me feel unwelcome because of my closely trimmed facial hair or lack of hat. The very opposite is the case. And of course, even though my own outlook differs from that of Chabad, there is never any need for us to lock horns on hashkafa. It’s just Mincha.
Perhaps Chabad is too strange and alien for Lakewood readers to relate to. Here is another example. At the Young Israel I am a member of in my community, all kinds of people come in every day. They are passing through the area for business, or visiting family, or on the way to a vacation, you name it. I know it is very fashionable to malign “harries” and “modern Orthodox” people for their lack of appreciation for the chareidishe way of life. But consider this: not once, under any circumstances, has a chassidishe or yeshivishe Yid been turned away because he adheres to different standards in any of the Daled Chelkei Shulchan Aruch (to include Choshen Mishpat.) No heimishe Yid is told, “because you refuse to rely on the psak of Rav Moshe Feinstein about milk in America, you are not welcome at our shul.” That would be preposterous! Sure, we could easily spin this as a lack of kavod hatorah for Rav Moshe zatzal, and use that as an excuse to exclude those who do not accept his ruling. But why on earth would we?! What a bizarre way to live your life!
The Navi Micha tells us: הגיד לך אדם מה טוב ומה ה’ דורש ממך כי אם עשות משפט ואהבת חסד והצנע לכת עם אלקיך. The Aibishter has very clear expectations of us in how we treat our fellow man. Of course, we all believe in the mesorah of Torah sheba’al peh, and the critical importance of adhering to the teachings of our Chachmei Hadoros. With that said, I wish to humbly suggest that we have lost our sense of priorities. Turning away an ehrliche Yid from the right to enter the shul over a jacket is completely out of line.
With great disappointment,
Jacketless Jew
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59 Responses
You’re 100% wrong. If you came to shul in a Hawaiian T-Short, shorts and slippers, would you also expect to be let into a normal Shul, since, after all, you can come like that to a Modern Orthodox synagogue?
Minimum standard are not only expected but, rightfully, demanded. It is not your prerogative to determine what another shul’s minimum standards are.
If you need a minyan factory for people coming in with an open shirt, khakis and green loafers, open your own minyan factory with those low standards.
Well this is quite a controversial subject and everyone has a bias that drives their opinion on this subject. All I can say as someone who grew up MO (as did my wife) and now find myself somewhere I would call “liberal yeshivish”… I feel far more judged in MO shuls than ANY yeshivish or chassidishe shul. I also often don’t wear a hat or jacket (and often do), and I’ve been welcome even in shuls in Kiryas Yoel without a single comment being made, but have been to numerous MO shuls overhearing judgements about others and their choices. In fact, my MO extended family on both sides (wife as well) often have conversations at dinner about the frum velt not being altruistic, yet never experience such conversations at the tables of my yishivishe friends.
I guess it’s individuals’ experiences that dictate their opinions on this subject.
Don’t worry though, I won’t judge you as you have seemingly judged a specific community.
I agree with this chassidish shul. One needs to come to shul with right frame of mind. However, I think it’s a little more important if there is a sign saying, if you speak in shul, you will be asked to leave.
Can you imagine a shul where no one speaks during davvening although some hidden there might not be wearing a jacket?
That will be a holy shul.
II think you did the right thing to not go in but I do suspect no one would have said a word of scorn. In that kehilla, in that shul it is strongly recommended but one who does not, is generally not excluded.
Jacketless Jew,
First I must commend you for respecting the rule, although if I had been standing there and understood your dilemma I would’ve told you to stay and daven.
You might be surprised, but your shul also has this rule on the books, and by that I mean in the books on the shelves of your shul. So I don’t think any shul should apologize for putting in place takanos, especially ones rooted in halacha.
Now on a personal note, I often daven at the shul in question (based on the clues given its pretty obvious) I have seen someone being told to leave for not wearing a jacket and knowing the people there – if something must be said to someone it’s done in a very nice manner to avoid embarrassing anyone. The most likely reason to be reprimanded in that shul is for using a smartphone which many jacketed people do anyways.
Such a disgusting title!
What does anything in this article have to do specifically with “Lakewood Ir Hakodesh” (Don’t you feel the sarcasm?)
It’s specifically related to the hanhagos of that chassidishe shtiebel, and they definitely have a right to enforce that rule.
Nobody told you off…Nobody made you feel like a sheigitz…V’hayu b’eineyhem k’chagavim…YOU FELT SILLY on your own.
Don’t speak lashon harah (actually motzi shem ra, because it’s sheker) about an entire city just because you felt stupid
My Shul only once ever expelled someone:- A Naturei Karta person for being Naturei Karta.
Albeit a very right wing Shul, no-one was ever expelled for wearing a Kippa Serugoh &/or no jacket.
I understand your pain but this has nothing to do with Lakewood at all. I daven in a shul IN Lakewood that people come in from Biber Hats to necklaces, to black hates, to shorts and sandals. Everyone is welcome. I’ve seen people with pony tails and nobody even looked at them differently for a second. So save your hatred for other places please.
A Proud Lakewooder
Dear Jacketless Jew,
First, thank you for sharing your heartfelt experience. It is never easy to feel turned away from a makom tefillah, and the pain you describe is very real. No one should feel embarrassed or unwelcome when seeking to daven before Hashem. The Torah places tremendous value on ahavas Yisrael and on hachnasas orchim, and we must always weigh our communal standards against the mitzvah of making another Yid feel embraced.
At the same time, there is another perspective to consider, not as a contradiction but as an explanation of why some batei medrash, particularly among chassidim, maintain dress requirements for tefillah.
The Shulchan Aruch (Orach Chaim 91:5) writes that when one stands in davening before the King of Kings, he should wear clothing in which he would appear before nobles. The Mishnah Berurah there emphasizes the importance of koved rosh and dignity in tefillah. Many poskim, including Rav Moshe Feinstein zatzal, note that while a jacket and hat may not be strictly required in every circumstance, they are certainly a fulfillment of this halachic ideal.
For certain kehillos, this halacha has crystallized into a fixed minhag, not only for chazzanim but for anyone entering to daven. Minhag carries halachic weight, as Chazal teach, minhag Yisrael Torah hi. A shul therefore has the right, and even the obligation, to uphold its minhag ha’makom.
In chassidic batei medrash, the beis haknesses often serves not merely as a place to daven, but as the heart of a spiritual culture. Just as one would not expect to walk into a Sefardic shul and insist they switch to nusach Ashkenaz, one cannot expect a chassidishe shul to relax its standards of kavod in davening. Maintaining these minhagim is not meant as a personal rejection. It is an expression of the community’s avodas Hashem and a way of preserving its identity and consistency.
Of course, none of this removes the responsibility of sensitivity. The Gemara in Berachos teaches that Hashem Himself comes to shul even when there are only ten Yidden, underscoring how much every Jew matters in tefillah. Ideally, shuls should post signs that explain their minhag clearly but also help visitors find nearby batei knesses that welcome davening without these requirements. That way, standards are upheld, while derech eretz is shown to guests.
You mentioned Chabad and Young Israel. Indeed, their model emphasizes openness, and it is beautiful. But just as their openness stems from deeply held convictions, so too the Lakewood shtiebel’s boundaries come from theirs. Each kehilla expresses avodas Hashem in its own way. Neither is wrong. They are different expressions of the tapestry of Klal Yisrael.
The Navi Micha, which you quoted, indeed commands us to pursue chesed. But the very same pasuk also stresses hatznea leches im Elokecha—modesty, humility, and following Hashem in the way our kehilla guides us. For this beis medrash, requiring a jacket is precisely their way of embodying tznius and kavod in avodah.
Your disappointment is valid and should not be dismissed. But perhaps, instead of seeing this as a rejection, it can be reframed as an encounter with another kehilla’s sacred boundaries. Next time, calling ahead or carrying that “emergency jacket” might help—not because Hashem needs the fabric, but because it allows you to enter their avodah without tension.
As Chazal teach, elu v’elu divrei Elokim chayim. Both the openness of Chabad and the standards of chassidishe shtieblach are legitimate expressions of avodas Hashem. The real work is for us to approach each other with understanding, even when our minhagim diverge.
With respect and brotherly love,
A Fellow Yid
extremely unjust of you to click bait your article with LAKEWOOD in the title you know good and well they don’t at all represent any part of the Lakewood and surrounding towns,aside from the halacha at hand that neighborhood is a small shtetl which gladly welcomed the greater Lakewood community to use their shul they can choose how they want to follow their mesorah also I have davened there in the 10s of times maybe next time at least try to go in cuz Ive been there take a chill if they ACTUALLY asked you to leave that would be another clickbait article for you
There’s more bunk in this letter then on the ground of a cow farm after lunch. I’ve lived in Lakewood 20 years and I haven’t worn a hat or jacket during the week for the past 15 of it. I’ve davened in most of our shuls in this town including BMG, Satmar, and everything in between. Not once was I ever told what to wear when I daven.
You went to some new age Route 70 minyin Factory that has nothing to do with Lakewood and nothing to do with any “Ir Hatorah” but decided to sweep your hatred against an entire holy City because of some dumb shteeble that hurt your feelings. Maybe your next letter should be written to yourself, perhaps your letter to self will have something to do with honesty, bigotry, self blindness, and foolishness.
Next time you catch a minyin at the cow farm after lunch. You’ll feel at home there.
Interesting title to this article. One would think that someone so accepting and non judgmental wouldn’t judge an entire community based on his experience in one shul….
Besides, yes, every shul has the right to make their own rules.
Thank you for sharing your feelings.
I am curious.
What if you had approached the Gabi and expressed your need for a minyan without any intention of disrespecting the rules?
Is it possible you would have found a warm welcoming?
I have participated in Minyans with all ranges of different styles of observances. From airports to the side of the road. Yet, I have never seen in any of these circumstances someone being told they may not participate due a specific dress code.
In my humble experience, I would like to say that the notice serves to clarify the standards of that particular kehillah, and is intended for helping regular members understand the values.
It’s not about right or wrong; it’s about how they want to foster their environment. For the regulars.
Every Jew should always feels comfortable in every Shul. If someone were to enter wearing shorts and a Hawaiian shirt, in all likelihood that many people including the person who put up that notice would run over to give him a warm welcome and extend an invitation to join for Shabbos! With his extended family.
It’s important to recognize that we often judge ourselves more harshly than others do. You mentioned wearing a hat and jacket in the past, is it possible that you may be judging yourself?? Be kind to yourself.
No one is being turned away from a minyan. Every Jew is valued, regardless of their attire.
Let’s remember we are one big diverse beautiful nation. Who care deeply about each other.
Warm regards,
Most of the letters here made the points I was going to make, but Jacketless, if you were to have an audience with the Gadol Hador, or l’havdil, the president of the United States, or just attending a simcha, how would you dress? My guess is it would be somewhat different from the way you daven in the summer. Think about it.
Seriously Reb Jacketless??
Love the lakewood, ir hatorah blah blah blah.
You only maybe have a story if you were in middle of davening there and someone came over to you and screamed or even quietly asked you to leave!
For you just to walk out in a huff and start getting all bent out of shape over this, shows me you are a insecure person.Or maybe were waiting for this opportunity to hate on etc.
Give me a break, just daven man.
No one cares and if they do big whoop.
Can’t say I would wear a black hat if I was going to meet the president, so that attire goes out the window. Suit and tie I guess would be appropriate
Number of shuls in Lakewood ihr “hat”orah- 1,000
Number of shuls with hat/jacket sign- 2
Number of shuls with chance of someone saying something- 1
Chance of someone saying something in that shul- 5%
We all know who runs this Shul and this Chasiduses function in Lakewood. Your lucky you left because he has the habit of shaming people in public. עליו נאמר כל המבזה את חבירו ברבים אין לו חלק לעולם הבא
B.H its the only such kind of shul in Lakewood. All others are known to be very welcoming. We will accept you with open arms in our chasidushe shul the way you are.
Their Rebbe of blessed memory doesn’t approve of these actions
Many תקנות in kehilos that don’t have a רב come from individuals who are manipulators and need to be in control and has nothing to do with halacha, minhag, or hashkafa.
Your comments are correct. However, try suggesting anything different to Chabad. As long as they rule the place and have the control, you are welcomed. Once you challenge them with anything better, they get very mad at you. But that does not matter! MO: Yes. Unfortunately, suffer from inferior complexity and close minded in their own ways. That does not matter either! Lakewood and other Chasidim: Yes. Judgmental and looks like they have mixed up the priorities. Again, we should not focus on that either! But Why? Very simple. We are all in Galos and we have absorbed and maintained the culture of the Europe that we came from. Sometimes I think that we are very similar to Europeans and MO similar to Americans. What you described is Esav at its best function: Penetrating in our souls. The other problem, selfishness: Being stuck in self worship. Thinking that we are always right. There is a fine line between self confidence and arrogance/self absorbed. Solution according to the Gaon: Rather than starting new movements everyday on the guise of Elu Velu or Minhag ( like Christians do with 30 denominations), stick to the simple basics of gemarah, Rishonim, Halacha, Tanach, The Zohar, and yes the midrash. This will focus and unite all of us under a chinuch that is truly handed to us from Moshe Misinai. The Gaon said, lets be honest with ourselves and do Teshuva on where we went wrong in our Chinuch and practices. European enlightenment called for diversity, liberalism, and worship of the Galach. We learn from them and do the same. Judaism teaches us self respect and not self worship We always worship Hashem with fear and love. Once we do that with confidence, then we would develop Kavod Haberios and tolerance for each other! Until then we will be stuck in self worship or the worship of the Galach. Let’s love each other in a united fashion because Hashem has been trying to tell us something in the past few years. Lets teach everyone what’s a priority and what’s not or norishkaid. We all going to go to Olam Haba and we don’t want to come to that realization too late. Love every Yid We are only days away from Yom Hadin!
What a clown!
You clearly went there purely to stir up drama.
You know how I know?
Firstly, anytime I’ve davened there, there are always people without a hat and jacket but nobody’s ever said a word to them.
Secondly, a block closer to Vine there is a Shul in the basement where where you could have gone.
Around the corner there is a big beautiful shul with many regular minyanim and no sign about hats.
Three blocks away there’s another shul without the rule.
Yet you somehow magically gave up after driving to the one shul in the whole town with a posted rule that you think is problematic.
Finally, instead of talking to people to see what the deal is (and you would have found out that pretty much everyone you talk to thinks it’s a bizarre situation), you decided to impute this action against the whole town as though there was a unanimous vote.
The general consensus about why they have the sign up (and why they have gone out of their way to make it less convenient to daven there in general), is that they were inundated with outsiders and they felt they were losing the flavor they once had. They never intended to be the local Chabad house. They opened up shop to be their local shtibel with a Dayan who davened out loud very slowly etc
I agree. Wearing a hat and Jacket in Minhag Chasidus. Kavod Habrios is Deorayssa. Rabbenu Ari Hakadosh stopped going to Mikvah during winter times, because his mother was worried about him Catching a cold. Almost all poskim say that the kibod Av Vaem is a Din Deorayssa and Mikvah is Minhag Chasiddos and that is why the Ari accepted his mothers words like a gezarah Gemorah upon himself!
All the comments of the very chashuva yiden here made me vomit so I signed up to be able to comment as well.
I was also in Lakewood one Sunday morning, I have to confess I don’t always get to daven with a minyan, I was staying next to this shul so I said I’ll go over and daven with minyan.
I daven shachris without a jacket since I have a talis and I’ve never had an issue anywhere.
That day there was no big sign, I was later told that it was ripped off. While I was standing and davening and talking to hashem, a yungerman comes over to me picks up his tefilin and says to me that in this shul you need a jacket. I told him I don’t have a jacket so he told me next time don’t come to this shul.
The argument that they have the right to have rules, I agree they have the right to be רשעים, but no one here thinks that hashem wants them to turn away people from davening with minyan because they don’t have a jacket.
You guys think a thousand years ago they had jackets? The talis was the clothing you put on for davening. It’s all very nice that you designed yourselves uniforms but it’s not that old. If it works for you that’s great, but to turn away another yid from davening with minyan?
Have you lost your minds??????
Ok now rants over, I had to sign up to leave a comment to tip the scales and bring some common sense back here.
Today, everyone is a victim. OK, you found out that in that shul you must wear a hat and jacket. Now move on. Or, next time you can go straight to a Chabad synagogue if you feel slighted because of this…
I see a lot of comments stating a shul has a right to impose minahgim and standards they want to adhere too. But I just don’t see how this upholds with the idea of chasdish. You think the beshts wagon drivers all wore hats and jackets and dressed the par. Yes you have the right to be makpid and demand kovod of the bm. But when did being chasdish mean becoming exclusive? Especially that you collect chodesh gelt because it’s open to all. I don’t see it in the spirt of chasidus. I still envy shomer shabbos for being a shul that accommodates all types and yes all random minhagim. Dus hiest chasdish
This is not the first time this shul and this sign has been brought up (and knocked down) on ywn. If I recall correctly the sign said everyone must wear a suit and hat. At least 90 percent of the people there are not wearing suits. Hence for you to think that the rule is enforced and daven beyechidus was a big mistake. You are justified in feeling disgusted by the sign, but missing minyan is taking it too far
Chesed is not only about giving tzedaka, when you denigrate people and belittle them because you have a different view than them and you shut the Shuls doors on them, you are clearly stating how much you really care about Yeedin.
For all those commenters who are saying this is not representative of Lakewood, ask yourself if there are any other common examples where someone would be excluded if not wearing a hat. What would happen if someone came to a interview for his child in cheder and did not wear a hat? Would the kid be accepted?
Referring to Lakewood as “Ir HaTorah” was always immature, childish and ridiculous sounding. It most certainly is a misnomer in today’s Lakewood, which is flooded with more gashmiyos than Boro Park, the Five Towns and Monsey combined.
Was in this shul without a hat and saw these signs every two feet and every place you look, to run, if you don’t have a hat. So I put something in the pushka and left. It doesn’t come from piety, can tell you that. You can pull your pants down, ok, but without a hat, your communist bait. This is because somebody that new how to make money paid for the place, somebody educated in a sick dictum, and doesn’t know why people where hat and jacket. You wear a hat and a jacket, maybe it will stop you from doing bad things, and make a good in impression on yourself. There is no such dictum from any Rabbi that you have to wear a hat and jacket, when you want to learn torah. It wasn’t done with asking any rabbi, it’s from a person that got rich, and was brought up twirp minded. Not to know who are his enemies and who his friends, like a cult victim, and that’s it. If putting on hat and jacket is kavod shamayim, then you can’t make it into Torah. Not worse then chilul shabbat
Your Rav Moshe comment is strange. It’s not a lack of kavod for him not to rely on his heter. He himself said not to rely on it…
Wow. I do wonder why you didn’t speak to the gabbai and explain the problem. I would like to think he would be understanding and welcoming to a stranger in shul. I’m sorry you felt so belittled.
@Aviva- I am so sorry you have so much hatred for Chabad. Your experience of trying to overthrow the Derech of the shul must have been very traumatic. I hope when you are stranded in Peru, the Congo, Costa Rica or even Key West, you will put aside your contempt so you will be able to ask for – and receive- the help you seek.
Your headline is motzei shem rah on an entire community. Apparently you never cracked open a Chofetz Chaim or shmiras halashon. You just lost whatever chelek in Olam haba you might of possibly had. You’re going to have a terrible year.
I find it difficult to accept your story. What do you mean that you did not feel welcomed? You stay in your spot, you daven and then leave. What were you expecting? The gabbai to roll out a red carpet for you?
Dear Jacketless Jew and everyone else. Even if our protagonist is wrong, which is not the point, there is zero basis in Halacha for kicking him out of the shul. And it goes without saying that whoever did kick him out is over Halbanat Pnei chavero b’rabim. Facts dont need to respect how we feel about this subject, there are laws we can refer to. No such laws exist that justify kicking him out. period.
Dear DavidGoldberger: I agree with most of what you said. But regarding “You guys think a thousand years ago they had jackets?” there are explicit gemaras that talk about wearing jackets for praying and about lifting up jackets while walking in water in the context of hilchos shabbos.
Of course our resident troll UJM will spin this as that this author came in “Hawaiian T-Short (sic), shorts and slippers”. Assumptions are funny and sad…
Reb Jacketless,
I am sorry for your poor experience.
I will write nothing new here. I will merely summarize – politely – the points I agree with.
Halacha is pretty unequivocal that one must have a head covering and a Beged Elyon for Shemonah Esrei. Which Rabbanim disagree with the Shulchan Aruch?
Yes, any place can make any rule. No, this rule is not a good idea.
I agree that you probably should have tried to daven there anyway. I understand why you didn’t. Based on the info offered by other posters, perhaps it was a good idea. However, it is clear that this is far from normal conduct in a either Chassidish or Litvishe places – in Lakewood or anywhere else.
Ultimately, I am not sure if you got through to anyone who needed a Tikun in this matter through your letter. But if even one person will be a bit more sensitive to one more Yid as a result, then it was worth it!
If those who put up this sign were truly worried for Kevod Shamayim, they could perhaps have a closet with jackets and hats for people to wear if they arrive without.
I wonder how the shul would welcome some of the amoroim
שבת דף י, א: רבא שדי גלימיה ופכר ידיה ומצליה, אמר כעבדא קמי מריה
They never tell people to leave if they aren’t wearing a hat and jacket. It is just their shul’s po;icy which they have a right to post.
@shlomo_frid Finally someone with an actual sechel comments…
This shul also has 4 rooms. But you are only allowed to daven in one tiny room. They have one main BM and i get that it should be reserved for learning and the dayan’s minyan. The reba also said they need a learning room . But what about the other 2 empty rooms? Then there is this game about minyan times. They use to have more and keep on spreading it out and changing. They want enough of a minyan factory so that it booth keeps the BM busy and attracts people there plus they can collect chodesh gelt to support the place. But they don’t want people to be too heimish and confortable there and they only prefer certain types of people. Don’t kid yourself, this idea that they stuff everyone in a tiny room with staggered minyanim is siman that the hat & jacket rule isn’t so much because of halacha and/ or minhag.
i think a shul can do this providing they add to the sign “there are hats and jackets for those that need in a designated area in the coat room they are yours to use.”
and have 3 or 4 hats and jackets there in a few different sizes
problem solved and noone leaves insulted
Bringing Chabad as an example is ludicrous. They have absolutely ZERO STANDARDS with regards to these inyanim.
traneach that’s a seichel comment? do you think say rav chaim kanievski zt”l is aware of that gemara?
he said someone who has a hat and jacket but not with him and there’s a minyan now, and later when he has a hat and jacket there wont be a minyan that he should daven later beyichidus with his hat and jacket
you’re the only one with seichel
There’s no halacha you need to wear a yarmulka, either. Maybe next you’ll arrive to shul bareheaded, so you can complain that they gave you “the looks”, if not asked you to cover your head.
In any normal Shul.
The reason they have it because otherwise people who come in with zero respect for that chassiduses standards and hijack the entire tzivyon of that shul
So because of these careless people who don’t respect the values and tzivyon that this particular community wants for their shul they have no option but to enforce these requirements
I LOVE BELZ!!
I REGRET MOVING AWAY
BELZ IS THE BEST PART OF LAKEWOOD
and yes, I was told the same thing.
But it’s the best shul in the world !!
Oh!! the time I enjoyed there!!
Can’t be replicated
The first time in my LIFE that I actually was treated with respect.
I love Belz lakewood!
Fir shacharis, with a talis, they probably would not have said anything
Go on the deck! It’s beautiful there!
I spent years of my life there
Rav moshe ztl clearly says at the end of his teshuva on חלב עכו”ם that a ben torah should be machmir and not rely on this heter.
Also, it’s funny how often the people who speak out in the name of ”tolerance” and ”ahavas Yisroel” are the ones who actually stir up machlokes more than anyone else!
to jacketless Jew! you are right & wrong.
every shul can have their rules. i had once a Kiddush in a satmar shul, on a sign was asking the women to cover the Shital. i didn’t and i said then; it was not right. for your own Chasidim you can ask for whatever you want. not for gust. i did not come to daven there. so, about the mans lewush i would say, if you want to daven for the omed you should have something as a jacket and a had cover. otherwise: it’s a shame what’s happening to unity of am Israel….
like you said, only Chabad is excepting anyone as long as they want to daven.
and then they ask for Mashiach to come. how should he come? in such a divided am Israel. it should not happen anywhere!!!!!!!!!
i daven for AM ISRAEL BEACHDUS so Mashiach should come in our time.
OMEN VEOMEN!!!
Not everyone holds by this. Like 30 years ago, I visited Bobover Shul when staying for shabbos with one of Bobover Rebbe’s talmidim. Rebbe walked in, a line in bekeshas was standing to greet him, he looked up, saw me standing there in a modernishe levush and made a beeline to shake my hand first.
This is a strange discussion about having rules plastered on the walls but not really adhered to. Is this some kanoyim printing these warnings? They should think of visitors who will take this seriously. I believe a general halakha is that if someone presents himself as an Yid by his manners, it is enough to be part of the minyan, no additional interrogation is required.
As to argument of meeting a king – this sounds strange. Surely, some of the levush was appropriate to meet Polish King Sigizmund, but today people play golf with presidents.
I mamish think this shul is crazy for posting these signs but they have every right to do so. To actually enforce this rule by asking people to leave is mamish criminal. The most respectful way to do this is to ask the person AFTER davening to come with a jacket next time.
Mr jacketless, here’s something else is to think about. Imagine the tables were turned and a chasid comes into your shul jumping up and down, davening really loud thereby disrupting everyone’s quite davening, don’t you think he would be asked to stop??
Just saying
Even for Mincha, wearing a Shul Talis over the head would presumabely have been accepted as sensitive to shul rules.