I DID NOT SAY that there is something wrong with saying that someone is the greatest tzaddik of his generation or the gadol hador (although I don’t know who is really qualified to make such a statement). IT IS SPECIFICALLY THE CONCEPT OF “NOSSI HADOR” THAT I OBJECT TO, and none of the mekoros quoted cite that concept. Is that clear now?
I guess where just miss understanding each other.
Now it seems that you agree with the CONCEPT of nossi hador, that there is someone that is the tzadik of the generation, but you don’t agree with the NAME nossi hador, instead you call it “godel hador” or “tzadik the greatest tzadik of his generation”
Ok fine no problem, where just arguing how to name call it.
So let’s get this straight, the Rebbe didn’t make up the CONCEPT of nossi hador, (because the mekoirios do speak about the CONCEPT), rather applied the NAME nossi hador which is brought in Torah (just not recently). And the name is which you don’t like. Ok I have no problem with that.
Btw you don’t have to agree that the Lubavitcher Rebbe is the (concept of) nossi hador, it’s my personal opinion as a Lubavitcher.
Can we agree on this? Or I’m still getting something wrong?
Now regarding the rambam, that you can’t go without sleep for more then three days.
(Finally got your point)
Good question. I see what your asking.
My personal opinion is that the Rebbe wasn’t an ordinary person, (not cs”v G-d, has people like accused us for) What I mean by that is, he was able to pass over some rules of teva, these are facts, you can ask anyone that knows/had personal story’s with the Rebbe, you can ask doctors that took care of him, especially when the Rebbe had a heart attack in lamid ches, one of the Doctors wore Dr Weiss (I think from Chicago, don’t know if he’s still alive today.) You can check my encounter with the Rebbe, by Jem. I think he was interviewed. If you want I can type up stories, but I just think you are going deny everything I say, so I suggest you just check up and do the research yourself. Before you make an opinion about it. So maybe we was able to stay up for longer, and the rambam was taking about must people, (and I think the halacha would be if hypothetically the Rebbe would take such a Sheva, he would get malkus, because halacha goes according to the norm. But he didn’t).
my personal opinion.
but in the past you say straight out that he didn’t respect halacha.”
When did I say that?
I will have to check up a few pages ago, but i could be wrong that it was you that said it.
Chossid: ” after claiming that “most gedoilim don’t hold of the Rebbe””
Did I really say that? I don’t remember saying it. What I think I remember saying is that most of the chareidi world does not hold of the rebbe, as virtually none of the litvishe/yeshivishe world hold of your rebbe, and MANY right-wing chassidim don’t either.
Sorry that’s what I meant by “gedolim”.
I hope you still got the point.
“There are a number of valid reasons not to mention names of people who have the views that I quote, all of them true in different circumstances……..”
1. And 2. Sounds just excuses.
3. First no Lubavitcher will be “pushed over the line” because of this non sense. Second if you really concerned of that why do you speak openly about it, especially if YOU hold of those people. and third, although I can tell you, it won’t push over a Lubavitcher, it definitely won’t make thousands of people that are being mekurev to Lubavitche (frum and non frum yet), think twice. And if they really hold it’s a borderline to kefirah Cs”v, (which it’s not), don’t you think it’s chiyuv to say there opinion publicly??? So no one should be nichshel? So I don’t think they really hold like that, or they don’t care, or your just making up excuses. Did you even ask them if that is the reason, or came up with this excuse yourself?
4. for some reason the lubavitchers that have non Lubavitche relatives don’t seem to have that problem.
5. Same as 4.
And btw I know a handful of chassidish and litvaks that learn chassidus chabad and go to the ohel in secret . . So leshitascha I don’t think people are afraid to tell them it’s wrung.
Regarding Sheva mitzvos
Now I get what your saying with regard to arvus, you mean kol Yisrael arievim zeh lozeh. Got it now.
There is a chiyuv of arvus to get Yidden to keep the 613 mitzvos. There is NO arvus when it comes to goyim! I other words, paraphrasing what you wrote, the same Oibershter who told us to get Yidden to keep 613 mitzvos DID NOT tell us to get goyim to keep their 7 mitzvos unless we can get them to be mekabel to do so in front of three Jewish chaveirim. If a ben Noach keeps 7 mitzvos but is not mekabel to keep them in front of three chaveirim, he is still chayav misa. Furthermore, he has to be mekabel to keep them because they are what Hashem told Moshe that they are what the original Bnei Noach kept.
Where do you get this “unless” from? Yes it’s true in order form them to be considered a “ger toishov” and be part of “chasidei umois haoilom” they have to megabel them in front of three chaveirim, but doesn’t mean they don’t have a mitzvah to keep their mitzvos. Whether you want to consider it a chiyuv or not, Hashem wants them to keep their mitzvos, so that Hashems rotzion, so it makes sense that you should tell them about it. If you care about Hashem rotzion.
And yes we tell them that “the G-d commanded you to don’t these comments.
“We have no arvus for goyim therefore means that we are not responsible for their actions, and whether they keep their mitzvos or not does not affect us either for the good or the bad.”
It’s not about affecting us, it’s about affecting Hashem. And btw it does affect us physically, like the Rebbe said, that you if they knew there’s a God in the world and looking upon you, they wouldn’t be any murder or steal from anyone etc. For that reason the Rebbe instituted a moment of silence in schools, that there’s a time in the day where they focus and think about Hashem.
“certainly telling a ben Noach not to eat eiver min hachai because it’s cruel to animals is plain wrong.”
True. Even though it might be the reason, but you should tell them that Hashem told you to do it, and that is what the Rebbe wanted and spoke about in Farbrengens, for example regarding a moment of silence, same topic as Sheva mitzvos
“Whoa! First, I don’t believe he had ruach haKodesh, or did miracles, so you’re proving me wrong by saying something I don’t believe.”
Interesting how is it’s possible to say that, after thousands of people had personal encounters and stories of miracles and Ruach hakodesh that happened to them personally???? Are you denying all that עדות? I guess your just clueless, if you only knew you wouldn’t say that.
“So you see that not holding of the latter does not necessarily mean you don’t hold of the former.”
The names I quoted wore in support of regular Lubavitchers, and the Rebbe himself. Like rabbeim i have mentioned, like Rabbi Wolfsin from Boro park.
Either way lishitasch why don’t you learn chabad chassidus at least Tanya.
” I would expect that you don’t hold too highly of Rav Shach, and I easily accept that. You are therefore justified in coming to logical conclusions about his views and actions even though you are not a tzaddik or a gadol.”
First I never said anything about him .
Second I don’t have a PERSONAL opinion about him, I only have what the Rebbe said about him. (And maybe some others). Even though Lubavitche didn’t hold of him I surely acknowledge the fact that he knows more Torah then me, So I won’t argue with him in that (at least in niglah;)). Not like you who simply denies facts according to your personal shita (at least till you tell me names).
The truth is I really would want to end this conversation, I’m wasting too much time, and it’s addicting.
I hope i didn’t miss understand you this time so I can finish with it.