Dear Avram,
Excellent post!
Admittedly, the nonstop Chabad talk is getting to me. Possibly, I chose to vent to you because I know that you will only respond methodically and clearly.
To your point first:
“My points (mostly ignored) have been more focused on where Chabad is forming dividing lines with the rest of frum Jewry.”
This is worth considering. The truth is that all groups do this to some level. It has been taken to extreme recently by all parts of Orthodox Judaism. Some are only knowable from the inside. Some are only visible online. Since Chabad by design is trying to attract the whole world, their claim to exclusivity is much harder to hide. I made this point before. Also, you can find Chabad speakers all over the internet. Other groups are not as public. Maybe you mean something more specific.
I am serious about the min/apikores/kofer/mumar/etc prism. I don’t think it’s so easy to separate from Klal Yisroel while still being fully observant and treating others properly. Especially as a whole group. I don’t see anything abnormal about Chabad. Every group has their thing that makes them different. It is intrinsic to being sub divided into groups.
From your first post:
“…but whether Chabad’s veneration of the Lubavitcher Rebbe is on par with avoda zara or not.”
I don’t even know why anybody would think it is a problem if they have gone through the sugya. If the point is something to do with secular anthropology, I don’t know why that is an issue. There are venerated icon’s in every society.
Back to today’s post:
” Maybe I’m misunderstanding something, but Chabad seems to claim that their teachings bring mysticism from the realm of the esoteric to the reach of every Jew.”
and
“But when faced with any questions or challenges on these supposedly mystical topics (or whether people are misunderstanding them to great risk), they seem to argue that the concepts are just too esoteric and holy for our stunted little Litvish souls to grasp.”
Now, this is a discussion! You don’t seem to have a problem with either point other than the debate here is playing both sides. Am I right about that, or do you have an objection to one or both of these points?
I agree with you that Chabad plays the you can’t know card. Having seen it a bit from the inside, my theory is that it works like this:
Chabad was always mystically inclined. How well it worked in the old world, is not the subject here. When they came to America, they wanted to keep that way. The problem is that they were stepping into the modern world and rationalism was dominating everything else. The solution was to double down and not give an inch. A very Chabad way of reacting to a problem. So Kabbalah which had been in the open in Europe, was now systemized to be taught everywhere. The Rebbe spent four decades advocating kabbalistic ideas and the spread of it’s teachings. Naturally, no area of Jewish thought was out of bounds. Many subjects which are not mundane at all, received much more attention in Chabad than the rest of us were giving it.
Every educator knows that just because you make a deep subject teachable, it doesn’t mean that the students will grasp the deeper concepts. And even those that can repeat the subject matter do not necessarily know the origin of it’s ideas. That is what we are experiencing with Chabad. Those that follow along with the curriculum, can talk endlessly about these concepts and how they work with each other. But they seem to know little in why it has to be this way and not some other way. Their only defense is finding a source in some sichah. Since their knowledge is based on integration as opposed to foundations, they assume we are just lacking in all the confirming information. They do not understand that we are questioning the fundamental concepts.
I have had fun night long bull sessions with many a Chabadsker. Only once did I meet one who seemed more like a conceptual thinker. He really had no interest in the whole united leader, leading us to our destiny concept. Also, Chabad has a massive network. I imagine that those that really know all the mystical stuff are not the ones we are interacting with. Maybe they are as hard to find as a yeshivshe mekubal.
This is my response to Chabad having it both ways. They are trying to spread a simple kabbalah to the whole world. They aren’t questioning what they are taught. (Which group does?) So they claim that everyone can accept it like they do. But without accepting the simple form of it, it can’t be understood without really studying it.
In a line. It is simple to accept, but esoteric in it’s real meaning.
I have been accused of cynicism my whole life. Whatever my virtues, I really fail at tribalism.
PS If I missed the thrust of your post, than instead of a response to me just post your issue with Chabad and I’ll take it from there.
PPS The Chabad topic bores me because it is just a bunch of misunderstandings. Other topics have much more potential for substance from both sides.