Daniel Rosen -“So now you are saying the judge WAS in fact teaching HER personally to have respect.”
Of course I am!
“But you then agreed with apushatayid who said: “The judge is not responsible to teach the girl respect.”
Respectfully, please realize your logical inaccuracy.
“but afterwards the State steps in.””
I agreed with him that in the first place it isn’t the Judge’s responsibility, but only after she broke laws. Btw, this is what I think he meant.
“You make this statement as if it is chok and mishpat. My point is that it is not chok and mishpat.”
No, this is the way it works, nothing to do with the Torah. And what he did was Not against the Torah.
“In fact, a major posek in eretz yisroel Rov Yitzchak Berkowitz tells us it is assur for a Jew to take another Jew to a secular court or have another Jew sent to jail unless there is a real threat of future serious danger. Even then there is a warning required and only if no beis din can handle it. It is not mutar to take “revenge” on someone by bringing them to a secular court if they are no longer a danger. This applies to non-Jews as well if you know they will be hurt or tortured in immoral and unjust courts. You cannot cause harm to another human being in this way.
The secular court system has no inherent legal authority. It has force- simple as that.”
That’s nice -So what?
“If someone, Jew or Gentile, respects that system it is up to them. I see no reason why it would be IMMORAL to show a lack of respect to a court system that took away your liberty when you felt they did not have a right to take away that liberty. Do I believe the court system is often corrupt- yes, I do based on my intimate knowledge of it. Do I think what that judge did was immoral? Yes I do.”
Well, you are quite mistaken. While the system might be corrupt, the Judge isn’t. I don’t know who taught you Torah, but there is a Chiyuv to give every human being respect. This girl clearly didn’t -so her act was immoral, not the Judges’!
“Excuse me but you were clearly saying the issue is a derech eretz problem in our society.
Therefore, this statement “The judge is not responsible to teach the girl respect. Her parents are. His job is to preserve the dignity and decorum of the courtroom.” in response to my statement “”You think what the judge did causes sincere respect?” is illogical.”
I think he taught her a good lesson and that’s why she apologized and didn’t open her mouth anymore.