February 6, 2013 6:28 pm at 6:28 pm #608094achosidParticipant
I know you don’t usually allow links, but please allow this link through. I would like to hear everyone’s opinion about this incident.February 6, 2013 6:29 pm at 6:29 pm #929638aidelParticipant
She needs her mouth washed out with soap.
Nerve to mouth off to a judge like that.February 6, 2013 6:30 pm at 6:30 pm #929639
The girl is right. The judge is abusing his discretion.February 6, 2013 6:30 pm at 6:30 pm #929640YentaParticipant
NEVER, and I mean NEVER EVER mouth off to a judge.
The judge is 100% right.
Stupid dumb girl.February 6, 2013 6:32 pm at 6:32 pm #929641YW Moderator-007Moderator
Abusing his discretion?
Ever heard of contempt?
He is a good man. We need more judges like this is the big cities like NYC, LA, Chicago etc.
Help keep the streets clean of this filthy trash.February 6, 2013 6:41 pm at 6:41 pm #929642TheGoqParticipant
She was very impudent and disrespectful good for the judge for increasing her bond and holding her in contempt.February 6, 2013 6:48 pm at 6:48 pm #929643OneOfManyParticipant
…how does one pass the bar without knowing what B-A-R spells?February 6, 2013 6:54 pm at 6:54 pm #929644
I don’t think that chutzpah should have criminal consequences. If the judge has such a self esteem problem, he should just yell at his wife and kids instead of putting real people in jail.February 6, 2013 7:02 pm at 7:02 pm #929645FerdParticipant
“real people in jail”
What makes this piece of trash girl “real”?
LOCK THEM ALL UP!!!February 6, 2013 7:17 pm at 7:17 pm #929646
Why does a judge have to put up with some druggy/who-knows-what stupid girl. The man is on the bench, she knows what he can do. If a student would do it to a teacher/principal theyd probably get expelled. You have to be high to think a judge would put up with it. Maybe she was. Good for him.February 6, 2013 7:21 pm at 7:21 pm #929647
The girl was arrested for possession of “Xanax bars” (prescription drug abuse). She crashed her bike and told the cop she was high on the Xanax. Her appearance in court clearly showed she had zero respect for where she was, the way she answered some questions might lead you to believe she thought the whole thing was a joke (watch the video on the web page of the local nbc affiliate). As she was leaving, in a deragatory manner she told the judge “adios”, he called her back and doubled her bond at which point she uttered the expletive. After the expletive is when he called her back and gave her 30 days. Reminds me of the chris rock video, what to do when pulled over by a cop.February 6, 2013 7:27 pm at 7:27 pm #929648
Why does a judge have to put up with some druggy/who-knows-what stupid girl.
No, the question is why does he have to put her in jail for doing something that was innocuous to anyone, but insulted him personally.
Her appearance in court clearly showed she had zero respect for where she was, the way she answered some questions might lead you to believe she thought the whole thing was a joke
Certainly. I also think it is a joke. But thinking it is a joke should not be punishable by jail time.
Seriously folks, the judge punished her because it was insulting to him personally. That behavior is far worse than hers.February 6, 2013 7:27 pm at 7:27 pm #929649akupermaParticipant
If it was your daughter who had made some very bad choices, what would you want done?
Bail is supposed to be to guarantee you’ll come back for your trial – it isn’t a form of punishment – that’s in the constitution.
People who are drunk or high are not necessarily criminally liable for acts done “under the influence” – she should be taken off to sober up (come down from whatever she was on), then tried. Bringing someone not in their right mind was unfair.
Where were her parents?February 6, 2013 7:29 pm at 7:29 pm #929650margeMember
i believe the judge is 100% right. the girl was totally inappropriate. thinking everything is a joke & that she can get away with everything by trying to act funny/cute, and also not giving the proper respect for a judge!
she finally realized this is not a joke! and she has to pay for her actions.February 6, 2013 7:31 pm at 7:31 pm #929651
she finally realized this is not a joke! and she has to pay for her actions.
Oh, you showed her it wasn’t a joke. Nice one.
Since when is thinking something is a joke punishable by prison?February 6, 2013 8:15 pm at 8:15 pm #929652mordernMember
i cant belive you lete a link to a pritzis video i hold yeshiva world in contempt!!!!!February 6, 2013 8:29 pm at 8:29 pm #929653yaakov doeParticipant
What a moronic airhead. She deserves the 30 days for lack of respect for the judicial system. The judge should get an award.February 6, 2013 8:32 pm at 8:32 pm #929654snowbunny3318Member
I am so angered by this video that I would have wanted to give her the death penalty, which is why I would never be a judge. I have an internet filter, so I only got to see 2 minutes and seven seconds of it.February 6, 2013 8:33 pm at 8:33 pm #929655gavra_at_workParticipant
Picking up garbage from the street for 30 days might do her some good. Jail is just a paid vacation.February 6, 2013 8:37 pm at 8:37 pm #929656
I am so angered by this video that I would have wanted to give her the death penalty, which is why I would never be a judge.
See, that is intellectual honesty. And that is why this person also should not be a judge.February 6, 2013 8:51 pm at 8:51 pm #929657snowbunny3318Member
Exactly my point.February 6, 2013 9:25 pm at 9:25 pm #929658The little I knowParticipant
Have you ever heard of a menahel throwing a bochur out of yeshiva for chutzpah? While I consider such expulsions to be murder, we would not have much hesitation justifying the behavior as defending Kavod Hatorah. Now, let’s switch venues. We are now in a courtroom, where there is a system of respect that is required. Speaking in derogatory manners is not ok, and making lewd hand gestures and similar remarks to the judge is not ok. The judge just made that message in monetary terms and in a month in jail.
Secondly, it is bizarre to look to excuse her behavior based on her drug status. She is there because of criminal behavior, not as an invitee to a party. If she was so impaired, she would not have been there at all. She is not serious about the entire affair, and this dismissal of the law is inexcusable.February 6, 2013 10:11 pm at 10:11 pm #929659
pba- the vort isnt if he was personally insulted. the vort is what this guy represents, and on a broader scale, what she was defaming. in this case, the justice system of the US. just as you understand that if she wouldve acted the same way to the ambassador of nigeria to the UN, the country wouldve demanded an official apology, so too is her display an affront to the kovod and chashivus the justice system holds it deserves. and so his action should be applauded. if you do it to obama, youll be in jail. no nafka minah.February 6, 2013 10:25 pm at 10:25 pm #929660CuriosityParticipant
PBA – maybe the mashal of kavod haTorah would be more to your liking. Sometimes big talmidei chachamim who are also baalei mussar have to act in the name of kavod haTorah when their honor is slighted. Not because they are arrogant or egomaniacs, but because as a representative of the Torah they have to act in its defense. Goyim have a similar mindset by the court of law. It’s not a matter of personal insult to a particular judge, but because the justice system is considered honorable, and it is unlawful to be in contempt of a court. Ever wonder why everyone has to stand when a judge comes in to sit on the bench, but not when he walks into a restaurant? It’s kavod for the court, not for the judge personally… not to say that judges are all humble baalei middos who can make this totally impersonal. I’m sure some do let it become personal, but the reason for a judge’s authority to change the ruling based on an insult is irrelevant to the judge’s ego.February 6, 2013 10:36 pm at 10:36 pm #929661
PBA – Even Hollywood thinks that Chutzpa to a Judge deserves punishment. In their movies they put people opening up their mouth to Judges with more severe sentences.
(PSA – is an enzyme from the Prostate.)February 6, 2013 10:51 pm at 10:51 pm #929662
She showed contempt of Court. She paid the price. Let it be a lesson to all our youth who see this video that has gone viral. It’s time for them to learn a little self-control, and mouth control, as well as derech eretz for authority. From start to finish this girl had something worse than Chutzpah. She treated her extremely serious legal situation as a complete joke. Well, who is laughing now?February 6, 2013 10:56 pm at 10:56 pm #929663HaLeiViParticipant
Agree with Popa and Akuperma. This story highlights the major problem we have with the ability of judges to punish people on a whim.
This is repeated in many ways all the time. The whole sytem has to be re-evaluated. Judges have way too much freedom.
It is also very bothersome to see this attitude about someone who did something wrong. Once a person deserves a punishment, even a light one, many people lose all sense of balance. “Yeah, he derseved it”, “If he doesn’t like it let him not do the crime”, “Kill him”… Do you want public flogging for being late on alternate side parking?February 6, 2013 11:26 pm at 11:26 pm #929664
If it was your daughter who had made some very bad choices, what would you want done? Bail is supposed to be to guarantee you’ll come back for your trial – it isn’t a form of punishment – that’s in the constitution. People who are drunk or high are not necessarily criminally liable for acts done “under the influence” – she should be taken off to sober up (come down from whatever she was on), then tried. Bringing someone not in their right mind was unfair. Where were her parents? “
I meant to address this post as well. If my daughter chas v’sholom ever acted with such complete contempt for someone in authority who had the power to send her to jail, I would applaud him for doing so, while cringing at the thought of my child being in worse trouble. But sometimes tough love is necessary, even as we cry for the pain we will see our children go through as a result.
This girl in the video seems to have parents who are very absent, or have little control over her, and while that is very sad for her, she should have been smart enough to not come to court appearing high or buzzed, both of which are conscious choices that she made, if in fact she was high or drunk. I feel no pity for her for that. And btw, people who are drunk or under the influence are most CERTAINLY criminally liable for their actions committed under those influences, unless they were under the influence through no fault of their own, which does not typically happen that way.February 7, 2013 12:19 am at 12:19 am #929665sheinMember
Judges are, more often than not, arrogant self-serving over-powerful lowlifes who abuse their power that they shouldn’t have in the first place.
TLIK: Why your inconsistency? As you believe a menahel who does as such to a student is akin to murder, so here too. Jail is as close to murder, without getting there, as you’ll ever get.February 7, 2013 12:31 am at 12:31 am #929666
I simply don’t believe that the judge acted out of anything other than personal insult.February 7, 2013 2:35 am at 2:35 am #929667147Participant
she finally realized this is not a joke! and she has to pay for her actions.
But because of this idiotic judge, every tax payer is paying for her actions, and not just this girl.
Verbal abuse does not rise to the level of physical abuse, and no-one other than herself was harmed by this Xanax, so the judge should be disbarred for his ludicrosity.February 7, 2013 2:53 am at 2:53 am #929668I can only tryMember
Who is right? Neither.
She was a stupid kid. Someone should have warned her to show respect and decorum before a judge, and that there could be a price to pay if she didn’t.
He was a bully and a tyrant. He provoked her by doubling her bond, taunting her with a sarcastic “Adios”, and then when she snapped and cursed at him, sentenced her to a month in prison.
Just curious – is there a limit to the length of the “contempt” penalty a judge can give? Let’s say he wanted to send her off for five years – could he?February 7, 2013 2:53 am at 2:53 am #929669MorahRachMember
She showed contempt of court. Whether or not you agree that putting her in jail was right, it was 100% legal. He has the power to do as he sees fit in his courtroom.February 7, 2013 3:54 am at 3:54 am #929670
MR – Of course it was right to jail her. I think these posters are like armchair quarterbacks. They probably have never been in a real courtroom. I’ve seen hardened criminals who are already in Jail talking to the Judge with such respect like he was a king.
There is this reality show called “Scared Straight”, were certain cities/counties have programs were they have Juvys spend a day in Jail with hardened criminals. Most of them do become Scared Straight. She would benefit from such a program.February 7, 2013 4:04 am at 4:04 am #929671
MR: I don’t think I’m criticizing this from a legal perspective. The reason we give judges discretion is that different situations call for different things. And it is clear from this video that the judge was way out of line. He shouldn’t have called her back the first time, and he shouldn’t have baited her by calling out “adios” at her. And he definitely shouldn’t have put her in jail.
I suppose I can’t convince you all, but I think this issue goes straight back to just about everything we discuss here about kids and chinuch. It is bizarre that this little kid is going to jail for doing no harm, and all the reaction society has is “look at that funny video; I bet she learned her lesson good.”
As if chinuch is about getting revenge for all the bad things kids do. Shloimie wasn’t paying attention in school; I bet he’ll learn his lesson if I embarrass him in front of his class. Rivki was chutzpadik at home; I bet she’ll learn her lesson if I punish her.
Next time we discuss why kids go off the derech, I’m pointing right back to this thread. Kids perceive Hashem to be like their parents; and who would want to be part of religion where G-d acts like you are suggesting.February 7, 2013 4:38 am at 4:38 am #9296722qwertyParticipant
I agree with PBA. If its just about contempt of court then standard punishment is 24-48 hours. This was about the judge trying to teach her a lesson.February 7, 2013 8:39 pm at 8:39 pm #929673
“If its just about contempt of court then standard punishment is 24-48 hours.”
No it isnt. Google the name Myron Farber. Or Elizabeth Morgan. President Clinton while serving no jail time, was fined over $90,000 for contempt and faced being disbarred in the state of Arkansas (he bargained it down to surrendering his law license for 5 years).
Someone who is charged with criminal contempt (as was this girl) is guaranteed the same rights as all others charged criminally, including the right to counsel, the right to put on a defense, and the right to a jury trial in certain cases. Charges of criminal contempt must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. However, jail time for contempt can begin immediately, before the contempt charge is adjudicated and the sentence decided.
So, this girl, if she so chooses, can have her day in court. who knows, she might win and sue for lots of money and buy even more jewelry thats worth, you know, lots of money.
Did anyone watch the entire proceedings? the local nbc affiliate has a 5 minute clip of the entire proceedings.February 8, 2013 10:13 am at 10:13 am #929674
pba- im trying to say i think that doesnt matter. maybe youre right, and he acted on silly girly emotions, but the vort is that his stature demands respect. fartig.February 8, 2013 12:51 pm at 12:51 pm #929675Yserbius123Participant
IANAL (I am not a lawyer) but I do believe that there is something called “Contempt of Court” which is punishable by law.February 8, 2013 3:35 pm at 3:35 pm #929676
“NEVER, and I mean NEVER EVER mouth off to a judge.
The judge is 100% right.
Stupid dumb girl.”
“She needs her mouth washed out with soap.
Nerve to mouth off to a judge like that.”
I thought this was a frum environment? What is with all the nivel peh? Especially when you are referring to “mouthing off”.
It is true I am very thankful to live in these United States with all our liberties and we are surrounded by mostly good people- both Jewish and non-Jewish alike.
However, included in the sheva mitzvos bnei noach is 1) against the judge discriminating against the litigant because he is a sinner. 2) against the wanton miscarriage of justice by the court. 3) against incrimination by circumstantial evidence. 4) against punishing for a crime committed under duress. 5) ensure the enforcemnet of the other 6 of the sheva mitzvos.
Our secular courts today DO NOT punish against avodah zara and therefor the judge is perhaps not serving as an “halachic” judge who demands respect in the first place.
People say “you better show the judge respect”. Is there a reason to show a judge respect other than the fact that there are a lot of guys with guns listening to him and will destroy your life if you don’t?
Would the same people be saying that about a judge in Nazi Germany? That one should show him respect? What about a judge that is an atheist or supports gay marriage? Do they deserve respect as well simply because there are guys with guns following his orders?
Because she was a little disrespectful/lightheaded in court the judge doubled her bail which could essentially destroy her life if she doesn’t have the money. Because she perceived her ability to survive as threatened she cursed at the judge instinctively. He then took away her freedom for an entire month. This all happened in the first place because of a non-violent crime. A Jewish dayan in the sanhendrin was obligated to have children of his own because he needed to have rachamim. Where was the rachamim here? Where was the warning? How come he did not first tell her “you need to respect my position and if you don’t I will be forced to double your bail to uphold the dignity of the court”. He never warned her of any of this. That aside, one must show a judge who is doing avodas Hashem the utmost level of respect and to not do so should be punished. Is a judge who is serving in an arguably corrupt court system that is God-less and does not punish against homosexuality or even avodah zara deserving of such respect? I think not.February 8, 2013 4:51 pm at 4:51 pm #929677
thanks for the laughFebruary 8, 2013 5:19 pm at 5:19 pm #929678
apushatayid “thanks for the laugh”
How is any of this funny?February 8, 2013 5:39 pm at 5:39 pm #929679
still laughingFebruary 8, 2013 5:40 pm at 5:40 pm #929680
Because she was a little disrespectful/lightheaded “
A LITTLE???????? What video did YOU see? The one I watched showed someone who showed up to court appearing to be high, not caring one whit for the seriousness of her situation, and CURSING the judge who was handing down her sentence. THAT’S who you want to defend?? It’s about time someone got tough with these kids who take up the court’s time and have no derech eretz whatsoever. He was right to sentence her. And the law is the law. Even when you think it is frivolous and not in keeping with our own Halacha. I totally do not get your referencing of Nazi Germany. This is not even apples and oranges. it is comparing apples and monsters.February 8, 2013 5:58 pm at 5:58 pm #929681
oomis: I completely disagree with you. She only cursed at him after he doubled her bail. Derech eretz? For what? Why are secular courts necessarily DESERVING of derech eretz besides the fact that they have people with guns? Do you have any idea how corrupt the court system is?
“And the law is the law. Even when you think it is frivolous and not in keeping with our own Halacha.”
Fasle, our halacha determines the framework that the umos haolam are OBLIGATED to follow. “dinei demalchusa…mishum darchei shalom” is basically “they have guns and we don’t so let’s not get killed.”
The basic concept of any court system the goyim are supposed to create is to not favor the rich over the poor (or poor over the rich). Do you have any idea how much benefits the rich have in our “modern and civilized” court system when they can pay for an expensive lawyer? Certainly without a doubt, I would not want someone who is osek in Torah and mitzvos to go to jail for such a reason and not be able to keep shabbos, learn and daven properly.
They are by zero means being osek in avodas Hashem. Xanax is assur but public displays of homosexuality and putting up billboards promoting atheism in the middle of Brooklyn is perfectly ok? Imagine if someone kidnapped you and put you in their basement for 30 days until you payed them 50 weeks worth of your pay because you said “adios” and had Xanax. How would you feel?
Persoanlly, I agree with popa… “I suppose I can’t convince you all, but I think this issue goes straight back to just about everything we discuss here about kids and chinuch. It is bizarre that this little kid is going to jail for doing no harm, and all the reaction society has is “look at that funny video; I bet she learned her lesson good.”
Don’t get me wrong I cannot stand rude girls like her but that does not give people the right to kidnap her and demand ransom money.
Mainly though, this is not about what we personally feel. The point I am trying to make is what halacha calls for.February 8, 2013 7:27 pm at 7:27 pm #929682locaMember
What he said.
Im horrified.February 11, 2013 8:22 pm at 8:22 pm #929683
DR. You do not show up to a hearing in court, high, reply to the judges questions with snarky and sarcastic answers and expect to get away with it. when the stupid behavior got her bond doubled she flipped off the judge and cursed him. that got her the 30 days.
for what its worth, the girl was back in court. in front of the same judge. She apologized to the judge and her parents for her outrageous behavior and her sentence was dismissed.
this time, she walked out of court with her lips zipped tightly shut.February 11, 2013 8:24 pm at 8:24 pm #929684
“Don’t get me wrong I cannot stand rude girls like her but that does not give people the right to kidnap her and demand ransom money.”
Are you high on Xanax?February 11, 2013 9:51 pm at 9:51 pm #929685Charles ShortMember
He was wrong to double her bond for her saying ‘Adios’ in response to his ‘bye-bye.’
She was wrong the say a filthy word in response to him doubling the bond.
As they say in kindergarten; two wrongs don’t make a right.February 12, 2013 2:50 am at 2:50 am #929686
DR -What a mentch this Judge is -I wouldn’t have freed her for an apology. Also, the fact that courts don’t follow the Torah is Not Judges fault, but the legilative branch of Gov. Also, a Goy might be Chayuv in Derech Eretz as we see by Damim B’niseena.
We live in a Dor of “Chutzpa Yasgi” even with Yidden -the Judge taught a lesson that this isn’t a Chiyuv (“Chutzpa Yasgi”).
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