ROB -“First-your quote from the gemoro says nothing about historical events. It only deals with the FEELINGS of a jew- and it has nothing to do with what HAPPENS to a jew. As a matter of fact ,the other gemoro (that you did not quote)says ‘ein odom kofef ezbah ele im ken machrizim olov min hashomayim”- a person does not bend his finger unless it is decreed from heaven. So much for you saying that things happen without HKBH’s will.”
Either you don’t know what this means or your twisting it on purpose. It translates to “bangs a finger”, in other words even a miniscule amount of punishment. This in No way takes away a person’s Bechira to good or evil or even a group like the Zionist group to make a Medina. Of course unless you want to argue that the creation of the Medina is a punishment from Hashem and a way to prolong the Golus. But it seems from your post that you think the Medina is some sort of Brocha. But now that you made me think of the Medina in this light -perhaps it’s true -the creation of the Medina is nothing but a terrible Onesh.
“As far as the medinah- you are big into pretzel-land- you say that it was established without HKBH’s will because people are allowed to make aveirus (as if is an aveirah to establish a medinah) but the “zechusim’ keep it going. Well, maybe they continue to have zechusim forever! You and people who espouse your view will continue saying that- just around the corner!just around the corner!- is the destruction of the medinah, chas vesholom. Well, that corner will be there for the rest of our lives and -of course- will never be turned because HKBH does want the medinah with all its failings!”
You never know, but Ain Somechim Al Hanais. With the new Israeli Gov. losing Zecusim by the minute esp. the Zecus of Torah, e/o should be very worried that we really haven’t seen what Chevley Moshiach really means. I just think you’re putting your head in the sand due to your Negious of your Zionist beliefs!