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“We Will Die and Not Enlist!”: Thousands Protest in Yerushalayim as Police Clash with Bnei Torah
To all the commentators there and those that post in the CR that ask “if they have time to protest they can go fight” or “why aren’t they sitting and learning” the reason is because the Gedolei Torah that they follow said to do it, therefore it follows that what they were doing has the same benefits as learning Torah
coffee > therefore it follows that what they were doing has the same benefits as learning Torah
you suggest transformation between different substances upon Rabbi’s decision?
When malach told Yehoshua that he came because Jews were not learning during the war – Yehoshua could just say that when I order the fight, it counts as learning?! Or why he did not designate bnei Levi to sit and learn?
And, according to your opinion, it is possible for a gadol to declare that going to the Army is equivalent to learning?
Then, I suggest 2 approaches:
1) follow RZ gedolim
2) respectfully approach your gadol and ask whether he is amendable for such declaration l’ darkei shalom. Maybe, just a tryout for a week before end of bein haazmanim.coffee addict:
I don’t think it’s the same benefits, as Torah Learning is generally higher than other mitzvos, but it does make it the right thing for them to do, as you noted.So let said “Gedolim” explain why they told their followers to leave the Beis Medrash and go protest. If those leaders believe that Torah learning is so efficacious in providing protection, then they should order their followers to learn more – not to protest.
an Israeli Yid
an Israeli Zionist:
Right. And since learning Torah is indeed more important than anything else, then they should also never stop to eat and drink because learning is more important.>>>To all the commentators there and those that post in the CR that ask “if they have time to protest they can go fight” or “why aren’t they sitting and learning” the reason is because the Gedolei Torah that they follow said to do it, therefore it follows that what they were doing has the same benefits as learning Torah
That isn’t an answer to the question. It boils down to “because they said so”. If you believe that whatever they say is pure Torah haskafa no explanation needed, you will accept it. If you looking to understand what Torah principle makes it that when it comes to this issue all the talk about how Torah protects and no histadlus other than Torah and tefila is required or even allowed then you won’t have one. Let alone if you ask for maareh mokomos that prove the distinction is correct.
“you suggest transformation between different substances upon Rabbi’s decision?”
Can you rephrase that in simpler English?I understand that you mean – Rabbi looks at the demonstrators and says “you are learning” and get same benefits?
coffee > I don’t think Yehoshua was the same scenario because he could’ve asked the urim vteumim and that was a milchemes mitzvah
That is making things even clearer: after consulting and having a milchemes mitzva, Yehoshua is still told that he needs to learn – at night, after fighting. Not that you can do one of them and Hashem will count. Not that you can even have one group fighting and another shteiging.
katan> then they should also never stop to eat and drink because learning is more important.
how is that a chiddush for you? There is so much written that a learner should eat so much as to sustain himself to learn.
@HaKatan – Don’t be intentionally dense. You know exactly what he means.
HaKatan:
Thank you. Excellent point.
AAQ – When malach told Yehoshua that he came because Jews were not learning during the war – Yehoshua could just say that when I order the fight, it counts as learning?!
Um, uh, just maybe the Malach was a sufficiently worthy מאן דאמר to tell Yehoshua what to do, whereas we aren’t necessarily מאן דאמר to tell גדולי ישראל what to do…
Or why he did not designate bnei Levi to sit and learn?
That’s actually a good question, to find the answer read the pesukim more carefully. This happened during the battle of Yericho, when Sheivet Leivi and the Kohanim participated in the procession with the Aron and Shofaros… It has been pointed out that even then, they didn’t not learn ALTOGETHER, but just not as much or as intensely as they otherwise would have וילן בתוך העמק – עומק ההלכה.
YYA, so, you see that the lesson is there, but you don’t think you are great enough to deliver that. Of course, we are simply discussing the issues here, not generting psak. Now that we have a reference, you can respectfully ask whoever issued the psak you are following, what is his position on that.
Always_Ask_Questions,
“And, according to your opinion, it is possible for a gadol to declare that going to the Army is equivalent to learning?
Then, I suggest 2 approaches:
1) follow RZ gedolim”Wait, you castigated me in strong terms for my comment here, yet you then say this to coffee addict? Has your account been hacked now?
Avram, context there is the apparent charedi psak that fighting is a good substitute for learning. I suggested that this permits RZ opinion or at least worth asking a shailah.
In your case, you simply dismissed a well-respected rav (who is not charedi, but charedi rabbonim get up when he walks in) for expressing an opinion that one should read books about marriage and one needs to learn english to be able to read those books. Maybe, my rendering of his words was not as good as the original.
In Eretz Yisrael, there are 80 yeshivahs where the students
spend half their time studying Torah, and spend half their time
defending Jewish lives and defending Jewish land.Some people pretend that these 80 yeshivahs do not exist at all.
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