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August 7, 2025 8:13 pm at 8:13 pm #2435536☕️coffee addictParticipant
“We Will Die and Not Enlist!”: Thousands Protest in Yerushalayim as Police Clash with Bnei Torah
To all the commentators there and those that post in the CR that ask “if they have time to protest they can go fight” or “why aren’t they sitting and learning” the reason is because the Gedolei Torah that they follow said to do it, therefore it follows that what they were doing has the same benefits as learning Torah
August 8, 2025 10:06 am at 10:06 am #2435571Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantcoffee > therefore it follows that what they were doing has the same benefits as learning Torah
you suggest transformation between different substances upon Rabbi’s decision?
When malach told Yehoshua that he came because Jews were not learning during the war – Yehoshua could just say that when I order the fight, it counts as learning?! Or why he did not designate bnei Levi to sit and learn?
August 8, 2025 10:06 am at 10:06 am #2435572Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantAnd, according to your opinion, it is possible for a gadol to declare that going to the Army is equivalent to learning?
Then, I suggest 2 approaches:
1) follow RZ gedolim
2) respectfully approach your gadol and ask whether he is amendable for such declaration l’ darkei shalom. Maybe, just a tryout for a week before end of bein haazmanim.August 8, 2025 10:06 am at 10:06 am #2435574HaKatanParticipantcoffee addict:
I don’t think it’s the same benefits, as Torah Learning is generally higher than other mitzvos, but it does make it the right thing for them to do, as you noted.August 8, 2025 10:10 am at 10:10 am #2435649anIsraeliYidParticipantSo let said “Gedolim” explain why they told their followers to leave the Beis Medrash and go protest. If those leaders believe that Torah learning is so efficacious in providing protection, then they should order their followers to learn more – not to protest.
an Israeli Yid
August 8, 2025 2:07 pm at 2:07 pm #2435734☕️coffee addictParticipantAaq,
“you suggest transformation between different substances upon Rabbi’s decision?”
Can you rephrase that in simpler English?
“When malach told Yehoshua that he came because Jews were not learning during the war – Yehoshua could just say that when I order the fight, it counts as learning?! Or why he did not designate bnei Levi to sit and learn?“
I don’t think Yehoshua was the same scenario because he could’ve asked the urim vteumim and that was a milchemes mitzvah
August 8, 2025 3:35 pm at 3:35 pm #2435790HaKatanParticipantan Israeli Zionist:
Right. And since learning Torah is indeed more important than anything else, then they should also never stop to eat and drink because learning is more important.August 10, 2025 9:45 am at 9:45 am #2435813smerelParticipant>>>To all the commentators there and those that post in the CR that ask “if they have time to protest they can go fight” or “why aren’t they sitting and learning” the reason is because the Gedolei Torah that they follow said to do it, therefore it follows that what they were doing has the same benefits as learning Torah
That isn’t an answer to the question. It boils down to “because they said so”. If you believe that whatever they say is pure Torah haskafa no explanation needed, you will accept it. If you looking to understand what Torah principle makes it that when it comes to this issue all the talk about how Torah protects and no histadlus other than Torah and tefila is required or even allowed then you won’t have one. Let alone if you ask for maareh mokomos that prove the distinction is correct.
August 10, 2025 9:45 am at 9:45 am #2435814☕️coffee addictParticipant“And, according to your opinion, it is possible for a gadol to declare that going to the Army is equivalent to learning?
Then, I suggest 2 approaches:
1) follow RZ gedolim
2) respectfully approach your gadol and ask whether he is amendable for such declaration l’ darkei shalom. Maybe, just a tryout for a week before end of bein haazmanim.“Aaq,
We don’t go “gadol shopping” unless that’s your type of Yiddishkeit 🙄 and it seems like “דרכי שלום” seems like what the daati rabbanim are doing agreeing that they’re not obligated to go to the army
It seems like a lot of people on this site are all or nothing type of people either sit and learn 24/7 or go fight
August 10, 2025 9:45 am at 9:45 am #2435818Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant“you suggest transformation between different substances upon Rabbi’s decision?”
Can you rephrase that in simpler English?I understand that you mean – Rabbi looks at the demonstrators and says “you are learning” and get same benefits?
August 10, 2025 9:45 am at 9:45 am #2435821Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantcoffee > I don’t think Yehoshua was the same scenario because he could’ve asked the urim vteumim and that was a milchemes mitzvah
That is making things even clearer: after consulting and having a milchemes mitzva, Yehoshua is still told that he needs to learn – at night, after fighting. Not that you can do one of them and Hashem will count. Not that you can even have one group fighting and another shteiging.
August 10, 2025 9:45 am at 9:45 am #2435822Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantkatan> then they should also never stop to eat and drink because learning is more important.
how is that a chiddush for you? There is so much written that a learner should eat so much as to sustain himself to learn.
August 10, 2025 9:46 am at 9:46 am #2435834August 11, 2025 3:26 am at 3:26 am #2436166ujmParticipantHaKatan:
Thank you. Excellent point.
August 11, 2025 3:26 am at 3:26 am #2436173☕️coffee addictParticipantAaq
“I understand that you mean – Rabbi looks at the demonstrators and says “you are learning” and get same benefits?“
Yes, is there a problem with that?
“That is making things even clearer: after consulting and having a milchemes mitzva, Yehoshua is still told that he needs to learn – at night, after fighting. Not that you can do one of them and Hashem will count. Not that you can even have one group fighting and another shteiging.“
How do you know that everyone went to fight?
August 13, 2025 9:43 am at 9:43 am #2437428Yaakov Yosef AParticipantAAQ – When malach told Yehoshua that he came because Jews were not learning during the war – Yehoshua could just say that when I order the fight, it counts as learning?!
Um, uh, just maybe the Malach was a sufficiently worthy מאן דאמר to tell Yehoshua what to do, whereas we aren’t necessarily מאן דאמר to tell גדולי ישראל what to do…
Or why he did not designate bnei Levi to sit and learn?
That’s actually a good question, to find the answer read the pesukim more carefully. This happened during the battle of Yericho, when Sheivet Leivi and the Kohanim participated in the procession with the Aron and Shofaros… It has been pointed out that even then, they didn’t not learn ALTOGETHER, but just not as much or as intensely as they otherwise would have וילן בתוך העמק – עומק ההלכה.
August 13, 2025 10:23 am at 10:23 am #2437638Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantYYA, so, you see that the lesson is there, but you don’t think you are great enough to deliver that. Of course, we are simply discussing the issues here, not generting psak. Now that we have a reference, you can respectfully ask whoever issued the psak you are following, what is his position on that.
August 13, 2025 11:42 am at 11:42 am #2437776Avram in MDParticipantAlways_Ask_Questions,
“And, according to your opinion, it is possible for a gadol to declare that going to the Army is equivalent to learning?
Then, I suggest 2 approaches:
1) follow RZ gedolim”Wait, you castigated me in strong terms for my comment here, yet you then say this to coffee addict? Has your account been hacked now?
August 13, 2025 12:39 pm at 12:39 pm #2437801Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantAvram, context there is the apparent charedi psak that fighting is a good substitute for learning. I suggested that this permits RZ opinion or at least worth asking a shailah.
In your case, you simply dismissed a well-respected rav (who is not charedi, but charedi rabbonim get up when he walks in) for expressing an opinion that one should read books about marriage and one needs to learn english to be able to read those books. Maybe, my rendering of his words was not as good as the original.
August 13, 2025 1:32 pm at 1:32 pm #2437838SQUARE_ROOTParticipantIn Eretz Yisrael, there are 80 yeshivahs where the students
spend half their time studying Torah, and spend half their time
defending Jewish lives and defending Jewish land.Some people pretend that these 80 yeshivahs do not exist at all.
August 13, 2025 4:14 pm at 4:14 pm #2437883RockyParticipantTo add to Square Root’s point, I would even go so far as to say that if you matched up the average guy in those 80 yeshivot against the average American yeshiva man, the American would lose if tested on their Torah knowledge.
August 13, 2025 6:25 pm at 6:25 pm #2437944ujmParticipantRocky: That’s a pipe dream. The average student of those 80 places would have trouble being on the same level as a third rate American Yeshiva designed for those who couldn’t enter a standard Yeshiva.
August 14, 2025 9:26 am at 9:26 am #2437958Yaakov Yosef AParticipantRocky and ujm – You are both wrong with regard to the learning abilities of Hesder Yeshiva students, and I doubt either of you know many of them.
SQUARE_ROOT – Despite consistently producing the best soldiers, the top IDF brass don’t particularly like Hesder students, discriminate against them and spite them, and even those few who become upper mid ranking officers are never promoted too close to the top, even though they are excellent and idealistic and give it their everything. Wonder why that is…
August 14, 2025 9:41 am at 9:41 am #2438054chiefshmerelParticipantUJM:
I’m not affiliated with any of those yeshivas, and neither are you. Do you even know a single person (personally) who attended literally any?
I don’t know who you are but am fairly certain that the gimmel-level shiurim at Gush or Mercaz Harav is on a level higher than just about anything you learn. With all your rhetoric, show me a post where you gave mareh mekomos for ANY of your controversial takes.
Until then, your post is motzei shem ra, libel, and slander. These students of yeshivas I mentioned are a lot more familiar than you are and are frankly greater Talmidei Chachamim in the making than you’d even desire to be. The level of learning varies in others, but based on past experience with your ilk, it actually exists, unlike emotional rhetoric accusing almost every Jew alive of being a heretic.August 14, 2025 10:54 am at 10:54 am #2438114Yaakov Yosef AParticipantchiefshmerel – Mercaz Harav, although the “flagship” RZ Yeshiva, is not a Hesder Yeshiva, but a full-time Yeshiva Kedosha (and an excellent one at that, in terms of level of learning.) The top tier Hesder Yeshivos (a small fraction of the 80) are reasonably high level in learning. There are also programs for deferred service until after Semichah, at which point alumni become IDF Chaplains (who have no power to enforce anything, which is a different story…) Similar to “Atudah”, for med students and certain tech specialties who complete their education before being enlisted as medics or technicians.
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