# 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 – 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 x 0 = ?

Home Forums Yeshiva / School / College / Education Issues 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 – 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 x 0 = ?

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• #1125420
👑RebYidd23
Participant

That’s not beauty. That is why I hate math, always hated it, always will, and if I was born again I’d still hate it. Also, I canceled PEMDAS so it is no longer in effect.

#1125421
ari-free
Participant

OK but there’s just one problem. Now that you messed up all of math, Shabbos started 5 hours ago and tomorrow is Wednesday.

#1125422
oomis
Participant

Did I just misspell PERCEIVE?

#1125423
Miriam377
Participant

Teacher? PLEASE EXCUSE MY DEAR AUNT SALLY. I’m sure she didn’t mean it.

#1125424
ubiquitin
Participant

Nope oomis, that was all me.

Please don’t let that distract from the crux of my point though.

In fact perhaps it can add:

I cant just reply well “It depends on how you perceive the fifth and sixth letters of the word” Spelling, like math, has rules. and “percieve” is simply wrong; much as any response other than 14 is simply wrong as a solution to the OP’s problem.

#1125425
ari-free
Participant

Don’t feel so bad everyone. The Phantom Tollbooth also gets it wrong on page 188.

#1125426
oomis
Participant

I am SOOOOOOOO confused now!

#1125427
haifagirl
Participant

I can’t believe you’re still debating this. Go open up any math book. You people do know what books are, don’t you?

#1125428

Forget algebra. (Where does it come in? There are no missing figures? I believe that algebra is only used trying to find out a missing figure.) Using the most basic and simple way to do math, because there are no parenthesis PEMDAS would not be used and the answer be 0.

#1125429
👑RebYidd23
Participant

No, PEMDAS works this way: If you want the order to follow PEMDAS, write PEMDAS before anything else: PEMDAS 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 – 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 x 0 = ?. If not, write just plain 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 – 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 x 0 = ?.

#1125430
my own kind of jew
Participant

PEMDAS is a rule for mathematics whether it’s written there or not.

Only following that when it says PEMDAS there would be the same as only making a brocha on food if the food was labeled with “brocha”

#1125431
ari-free
Participant

notwhouthinkiam That’s like saying if you have a book without a table of contents, go back to the end of the book and read backwards to the beginning.

#1125432

Ari-free, a book is made to read from beginning to end. (you dont really need a table of contents.) In mathematics, there are different ways how to get a solution to different kinds of problems, but you could ony use that formula if its in the right situation. And since there are no parenthesis then you would just go on to do the problem the regular way.

#1125433
ari-free
Participant

Since there are no parentheses you multiply first. That is what ORDER of operations MEANS.

#1125434
IvduEsHashemBsimcha
Participant

Summary of things which people don’t understand about this question:

1) Pemdas applies WHETHER IT’S WRITTEN OR NOT!

2) In Pemdas, add/subtract is one group and multiply/divide is one group. Within a group, you do whatever one comes first, left to right.

3) There are no parentheses in this problem. Therefore, the 0 only works on one of the 1s (and the answer is not 0).

4) There is a “-1” hidden in there, which many mistook for a “+1”, leading to the false answer of 16.

5) If you plug it in number-by-number on a calculator (ex: 1+1=? +1=? +1=? , etc.), of course you won’t get 14, because the calculator can’t retroactively multiply the 0 and 1 before everything else. If, however, you put the whole problem into a graphing calculator, or even Google it, you will get 14.

All of these things have been mentioned before on this thread. There is NO correct answer other than 14.

#1125435
👑RebYidd23
Participant

PEMDAS was a rule for mathematics.

#1125436
ari-free
Participant

PEMDAS is just a cute way to help you remember the rules. Like SOA CAH TOA for trig identities.

#1125437

the answer is 0. everything x0 =0!

#1125438
IvduEsHashemBsimcha
Participant

n.l.n.s.h. :

You are right that anything times zero equals zero.

However,

Since the rule of Pemdas says that you multiply/divide before you add/subtract, the first step is to multiply the last 1 times 0. That equals zero. However, you still have a bunch of other 1s, which you add/subtract.

THE ANSWER WILL NOT BE 0 BECAUSE ONLY ONE 1 IS x0!!!

Copy and paste it into Google. The answer is 14.

#1125439
ari-free
Participant

The reason why this is hard for people is because while they aren’t mathematicians, they use calculators and cash registers to add things up as they come, all the time. “I have \$1. I make \$1 and I add it up. Then I spend one dollar and I subtract 1. Eventually it looks like 1+1-1+1+1…” They don’t wait; they calculate right away.

#1125440
IvduEsHashemBsimcha
Participant

Mods, don’t you think it’s time to choose this thread? I’d have thought three pages was enough for a simple arithmetic problem. There is nothing to add, and people who still don’t understand should keep looking at the explanatory posts already there.

This is an embarrassment. The answer is 14. Period.

#1125441
👑RebYidd23
Participant

That’s not true. Some human made up PEMDAS, and I undid that.

#1125442

math is against my religion, because venishmartem meod linafshosechem:)

#1125443
ari-free
Participant

Well, there is a mitzva to know that Hashem is echad and if you think echad means 2 or 3 because you just undid math…please check out the AZ thread.

#1125444
frumnotyeshivish
Participant

Isn’t this fun, people? Everyone’s opinion is valid. Majority wins with compromise. Democracy. The average answer is around 9. What, no one will compromise? A bunch of partisan fundamentalists here…

#1125445
ari-free
Participant

Isn’t that the problem with Chrishianity? They believe 1+1+1 =1

#1125447
ari-free
Participant

OK here’s a problem to see how good everyone is with this business

Here I have

1 + 2 + 3 – 4 + 5 + 6

Your job is to add parentheses () to the expression in order to get the smallest possible sum and tell me what it is!

#1125448
☕ DaasYochid ☕
Participant

(1+2+3)-(4+5+6)=-9

#1125449
frumnotyeshivish
Participant

(1 + 2) (+ 3) (- 4) (+ 5) (+ 6) = -1080

#1125450
☕ DaasYochid ☕
Participant

lol

#1125451
Malbim
Member

DaasYochid, it equals u.

#1125452
helloyidden
Member

14

#1125453
ubiquitin
Participant

Ah fond memories

The thread that first got me hooked on coffee (room)

I just reread it. IT still boggles my mind how some posters were still arguing and insisting all sorts of responses were correct (other than 14) even after this 5th grade math problem was explained.

#1125454
Yserbius123
Participant

That’s why, despite being a Galcianer, I use Reverse Polish Notation.

`1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 0 x + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +`

#1125455
Participant

14

#1768595
ubiquitin
Participant

So apparently it isn’t just coffee room readers struggling wit elementary school math

This problem:

8÷2(2+2) = ?

Seems to be confusing people, with one silly website claiming the problem “Baffles Mathematicians, Physicists”

when of course it doesn’t, if you follow the rules there is only one answer it isn’t ambiguous and there is no debate

I post this as it brought back fond memories of the post that first got me addicted to the magical place that is the coffee room, where people can argue over basic facts

(The answer of course is 16 and only 16 no other answer is correct or partially correct)

#1768617
Yserbius123
Participant

@ubiquitin the problem with “8÷2(2+2) =” is the inconsistent notation. In general when you use x(y) to multiply, you will use a bar to divide, “8/2(2+2)” which makes it a lot clearer that “2(2+2)” is the denominator and “8” is the numerator.

#1768618
Participant

Right ubiq

Pemdas working from left to right

#1768623
Reb Eliezer
Participant

8/(2(2+2)) = 8 / 2(4) = 8/8 =1

#1768688
Reb Eliezer
Participant

DY, 6-15 = -9

#1768690
Reb Eliezer
Participant

DY, yours ia -9 and ari-free’s problem is 9.

#1768743
ubiquitin
Participant

Yserbius
a. “in general when you use x(y) to multiply, you will use a bar to divide”
I hear, but eh that isnt a real rule
b. ““8/2(2+2)” which makes it a lot clearer that “2(2+2)” is the denominator and “8” is the numerator”
the reverse is true. the way you wrote it is ambiguous and I could hear either way. the way I wrote it is crystal clear with no room for ambiguity

8
—— = ?
2(2+2)

would equal 1 (hopefully that formatting doesnt get messed up
At any rate the mistake facing most people i not the issue facing most people online, though I do hear were ou are coming from, most people online either dont appreciate the order of operations, OR think multiplication always precedes division (peMDas)
scroll through this thread, where the ambiguities you mentioned arent an issue

Laskern, you are sticking in extra parenthesis that arent there .
8/(2(2+2)) = 1 correct
but the way it was written : 8÷2(2+2) = 8÷2(4) = 4(4) = 16

#1768911
Meno
Participant

All of these things are stupid. If you want to write something meaningful, write it clearly in a way that doesn’t require the reader to use arbitrary conventions to interpret it correctly.

#1769062
ubiquitin
Participant

Meno

What do you mean by “arbitrary conventions” all of math involves “arbitrary conventions” how do you know what the + in “1+2” means? I think it should mean to the power of and the answer is 1 my friend thinks it should mean multiplication, or maybe it should mean put the numbers next to each other but in reverse order so the answer is 21

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