December 11, 2012 1:02 am at 1:02 am #607357Yekke Mitt a GartelMember
Did anyone see that advertisement, it got me very upset as I think that borders on kfira. what does everyone else think?December 11, 2012 1:15 am at 1:15 am #913395zahavasdadParticipant
There are plenty of frum people who for some reason never get married both men and women.December 11, 2012 1:19 am at 1:19 am #913396
I think they are using a false scare tactic to try to raise awareness of what the age gap is all about. I do not believe the numbers are anywhere close to 1 in 10. They know it. And they have absolutely zero evidence that it is 1 in 10. They are making a gross overestimization based on faulty numbers. (Granting that there is a certain percent. But much less than 10%.)
AZ will be here eventually to defend the 1 in 10 number and he will use fuzzy math that has no basis in reality.December 11, 2012 1:28 am at 1:28 am #913397Yekke Mitt a GartelMember
there saying in the ad that they will never be able to get married (shidduch crisis)December 11, 2012 1:30 am at 1:30 am #913398MorahRachMember
1 in 10 seems like a lot! Where are the stats from?December 11, 2012 1:35 am at 1:35 am #913399
Did anyone see that advertisement, it got me very upset as I think that borders on kfira. what does everyone else think?
1. Why do you think it is k’fira?
2. What if it could be shown to be factually true (I have no idea if it is or not)? Would it still be k’fira?
3. What if it’s not true, but rather simply wrong. Just because something is wrong doesn’t make it k’fira. If I say that 2+2=8, that’s not k’firah — it’s just wrong. So, even if it’s wrong, why do you feel that it is k’fira?
The WolfDecember 11, 2012 1:50 am at 1:50 am #913400mommamia22Participant
I never saw it, but I’d like to believe it’s “…will CHOOSE not to marry”.
I think we’re given choices and we sometimes prefer not to choose from amongst what’s available and offeredDecember 11, 2012 2:13 am at 2:13 am #913401farrocksMember
Momma: The point of the ad is that there are not enough guys left for 10% of the girls. After 90% of the girls get married, their are no more guys left for the sad 10%.December 11, 2012 3:20 am at 3:20 am #913402akupermaParticipant
That is likely only if 10% of the boys are disappearing. This sometimes happens such as in wars (a big problem in Europe in the 20th century) – but not likely in our community. It could be many boys will decide to be “gay” (common among secular Jews, not among our community). It could be that boys are more likely than girls to go “off the derekh” – no evidence of that. It could be that Baalei Teuvah and Geirim are more likely to be female than male – but again, no evidence of that.
It could that both genders are “spoiled” and will likely postpone marriage until they have the economic means to support themselves in the style to which they were accustomed – so marriage age will increase. If that occurs there will be less pressure on our schools since there will be more parnassah and fewer children – but there is no sign of that happening (when in happens you’ll notice schools closing for lack of students, tuition falling, etc.).
All young people have a “shidduch crisis” which lasts until they get married. That has always been the case. The only one who really had an insoluable problem with Adam ha-Rishon (it require divine intervention to solve his shidduch crisis). Being worried about getting married is part of growing up – like pimples or having physical changes or suddently realizing the grownups think you’re an adult. THere’s really no hiddush here.December 11, 2012 3:30 am at 3:30 am #913403WiseyParticipant
Not that i necessarily agree, but i think the intention of the kfirah accusation is that it shows a lack of bitachon.December 11, 2012 4:54 am at 4:54 am #913404
Not only if the boys are disappearing, also if there are 10% more girls entering the shidduch market each year, which would be true based on a certain percentage of population growth and average higher age gap of males over females marrying each other.December 11, 2012 5:04 am at 5:04 am #913405
Not that i necessarily agree, but i think the intention of the kfirah accusation is that it shows a lack of bitachon.
I’d actually like to hear the OP’s reasoning on this. But I’m not holding my breath on his/her coming back to answer.
The WolfDecember 11, 2012 5:28 am at 5:28 am #913406Loyal JewMember
Much of this is because too many boys don’t meet the females’ standards (wanting to “earn”) and too many females’ parents don’t meet the males’ standards (kollel support / dira). Fix these problems and most of the crisis will go away.December 11, 2012 5:53 am at 5:53 am #913407
To solve this problem go to my topic here in the CR called “Who wants to be a “Tzadaikes like Rus”.December 11, 2012 12:32 pm at 12:32 pm #913408mommamia22Participant
I think it shows a lack of bitachon. How many women have I heard lament that the men just aren’t committing???
Frankly, it’s time for some introspection.
It just can’t be that the entire male population has the problem.
These statistics also breed hopelessness and may cause some to give up. That is not our way.December 11, 2012 2:29 pm at 2:29 pm #913409popa_bar_abbaParticipant
I agree with them that there is a problem. But, the stat means nothing unless you compare it to the number of guys who will never get married.December 11, 2012 2:35 pm at 2:35 pm #913410
There is a problem. The issue is their overstatement and gross over-estimization.December 11, 2012 6:48 pm at 6:48 pm #913411
To solve this problem go to my topic here in the CR called “Who wants to be a “Tzadaikes like Rus”.
Okay, I went to that topic. B”H no more shidduch crisis!December 11, 2012 6:56 pm at 6:56 pm #913412rockyroadMember
Please advise: where can one see ‘the advertisement’ discussed above?December 11, 2012 8:33 pm at 8:33 pm #913413N.GMember
“1 in 10 girls will not get married”. It’s up to G-d if 1 in 10 girls will not get married.DON’T LOOK AT STATS.December 11, 2012 8:34 pm at 8:34 pm #913414N.GMember
Some girls don’t want to get married.December 11, 2012 8:40 pm at 8:40 pm #913415
DY -“Okay, I went to that topic. B”H no more shidduch crisis!”
Not just reading the topic, but what it says there will help tremendously.December 11, 2012 8:54 pm at 8:54 pm #913416
N.G -“Some girls don’t want to get married.”
I agree but with a specification. They want to get married to what they decided through their peers and family – what they should look for. They keep waiting for that guy “that they deserve”. They keep waiting and waiting until their middle age, but lo & behold – all of a sudden they can’t have kids anymore.
So now the middle age guy who hasn’t gottten married yet, can’t marry them because he has a Chiyuv to get married and have kids.
So yes – “1 in 10 girls will not get married”, if not more or less. And no Org. that exists will stop this. You might actually have to implement my suggestions in my topic of “Who wants to be a Tzadaikes like Rus” to put a dent in this fact.December 11, 2012 9:09 pm at 9:09 pm #913417
99% of statistics are made up on the spot.December 11, 2012 9:32 pm at 9:32 pm #913418BSDMember
mommamia22-“These statistics also breed hopelessness and may cause some to give up. That is not our way.”
Facing reality by identifying the issues and addressing them accordingly should not breed hopelessness so long as we do something about it.
N.G-“It’s up to G-d if 1 in 10 girls will not get married.DON’T LOOK AT STATS.”
There is always the question of where bitachon ends and hishtadlus begins. If these stats are accurate- and it makes sense that it is, then it should be our achrayus to address it.
Who knows, maybe there are hidden benefits in men marrying at 21. Learning in E.Y., which has become a given, might not be beneficial for all bochurim.December 11, 2012 11:52 pm at 11:52 pm #913419
Who makes up this drivel? 1 in 10 makkos had to do with blood. 1 in 10 girls do not get enough vitamin D. 1 in 10 adults snores in their sleep.December 11, 2012 11:53 pm at 11:53 pm #913420
99% of statistics are made up on the spot.
Actually, it’s 84.7%.
The WolfDecember 12, 2012 12:40 am at 12:40 am #913421
Thank you Wolf! What is the confidence interval?December 12, 2012 12:47 am at 12:47 am #913422
Health, aside from the valid objections which I raised on that thread, your idea would throw single women above a certain age under the bus.December 12, 2012 1:03 am at 1:03 am #913423squeakParticipant
I want to protest the use of the word “females” by loyal j. above. It is not tsnius. Non-males or unmales would be an acceptable substitution.December 12, 2012 3:01 am at 3:01 am #913424popa_bar_abbaParticipant
squeak: It’s also lashon nekia. ????? ??? ????? ?????December 12, 2012 3:16 am at 3:16 am #913425
Thank you Wolf! What is the confidence interval?
The WolfDecember 12, 2012 3:23 am at 3:23 am #913426
How I love strong, hard numbers that mean something!December 12, 2012 5:44 am at 5:44 am #913427
DaasYochid -“Health, aside from the valid objections which I raised on that thread, your idea would throw single women above a certain age under the bus.”
You must not have understood me over there. I don’t believe in forcing anybody to do anything. Just like the Org. wants to have guys marry girls the same age, which I don’t personally have anything against, but I don’t see how this will solve anything if the problem is that there are more girls born than boys. It might alleviate some of it, but not solve it. My solution basically almost totally solves the problem. Go over there for details.
Like I was saying this Org. doesn’t force anyone to do anything, but they try persuasion and getting Rabbis to agree with it & push it, etc.
But what they did is that they made an awareness that you can marry s/o the same age. So that is what I’m trying to do, make an awareness that a single girl, even never married, can marry a much older guy whether never married, divorced or widowed. It shouldn’t be a Stigma. It should be something they should consider because the time clock is ticking. Right now I’ve seen women/girls that are/were good quality being picky and not going out with this type or that. And then what happenned was that they got too old and almost noone wants to go out with them because they can’t have kids.December 12, 2012 1:12 pm at 1:12 pm #913428
I feel, having seen this a few times over, that many girls have a very definite idea of the guy they want to marry, and when they go out with a boy they feel there must be some sort of ‘chemistry’ there. What is chemistry??? I finished chemistry when I left school! When I was dating, I had my ‘top-ten’ list (if you haven’t read Dating Secrets, go read it now!) and knew that if I liked the guy and felt I could talk to him easily, that was enough to warrant another date. The third guy I met (my husband) ticked off every single one of my top-ten points (and the book says if you can tick off five then you’re on to a good thing). We dated a total of seven times over ten days before we were engaged. If more girls would have this mentality things would be a lot easier. But a lot of girls I know are waiting for Mr Perfect with sparks in their eyes and feel they have to go out with a guy for at least a few weeks before they even think about is this who they want to marry. That’s not what dating is about! If someone, boy or girl, can get to ten dates and still not feel ready to make a commitment, there is something wrong with the way they are dating.
The Chassidim don’t seem to have a shidduch crisis, and I think that should tell us everything.December 12, 2012 1:37 pm at 1:37 pm #913429artsyParticipant
i heard that the Chassidim actually DO have some sort of “crisis” with there being a lack of GIRLS! The solution is obvious – we need to go Chassidish:)December 12, 2012 2:18 pm at 2:18 pm #913430
So the extra Chasidish boys can marry the extra Litvish girls.December 12, 2012 4:26 pm at 4:26 pm #913431
NASI has been saying that over the last 5 years, due to their efforts, the situation has improved and the problem has lessened. If they claim the rate is 10% today, are they saying it was something like 15% of girls were never able to get married until 5 years ago?December 12, 2012 4:27 pm at 4:27 pm #913432AZParticipant
“but I don’t see how this will solve anything if the problem is that there are more girls born than boys.”
I guess you still don’t understand.
The problem is NOT because there are more girls *born* than boys.
It DOES tell us EVERYTHING. They marry at about the same age.December 12, 2012 4:34 pm at 4:34 pm #913433achosidParticipant
Joseph, I mean Real Brisker, I mean “iced”, your mammish getting out of control lately.December 12, 2012 5:47 pm at 5:47 pm #913434
AZ -“Health: I guess you still don’t understand.”
Actually I do understand. And I never put down your idea that you created in “Nasi” -so why are you putting down mine?
I’m sorry that you can’t admit that your Org. won’t solve the problem. It might put a dent in it somewhat. Mine will pretty much close the gap.December 12, 2012 6:31 pm at 6:31 pm #913435
Health, you are advocating increasing the gap.December 12, 2012 7:14 pm at 7:14 pm #913436
DY – At a young age they can marry the same age, I don’t care about his project, but getting close to the age of Not being able to have kids -they should broaden their horizons alot!December 12, 2012 7:37 pm at 7:37 pm #913437
AZ – they also find out everything relevant (note the word relevant) before any meetings take place – all they need to do is meet to see if they like each other and can get on with each other. That should also tell us everything.December 12, 2012 7:46 pm at 7:46 pm #913438
Health – then tell the girls to date at age 20 instead of focusing on gaining ‘careers’ to support husbands in kollel! There are too many girls who want to finish college before they settle down.December 12, 2012 7:49 pm at 7:49 pm #913439nsfrumMember
were jews, we are above statistics and numbers if a person truly prays no matter what the odds are he or she will get answeredDecember 12, 2012 7:51 pm at 7:51 pm #913440BSDMember
“So the extra Chasidish boys can marry the extra Litvish girls.”
You may be on to something. Now we have to iron out the kinks:ie His shtreimel and beard, her hair 🙂December 12, 2012 8:08 pm at 8:08 pm #913441
notasheep -“Health – then tell the girls to date at age 20 instead of focusing on gaining ‘careers’ to support husbands in kollel! There are too many girls who want to finish college before they settle down.”
I don’t tell anyone what to do. And if I did – would anybody listen?
I’m just making a suggestion to stop this trend that I see of many women going throughout life being single.December 12, 2012 8:59 pm at 8:59 pm #913442AZParticipant
I addressed a comment you made which was both incorrect as well as a inaccurate representation of the age gap problem. I did not address anything you wrote on any other thread.
Notasheep: at the risk of repeating the same idea as nasuem. If there are 2200 girls and 2000 boys, then it don’t matter how much info one has before they date. They could even agree to marry w/o meeting- you can still be assured that 200 will be unpaired.
Please explain how finding out info prior to dating changes the 2200/2000 equation. Unless you simply don’t believe that equation.December 12, 2012 9:06 pm at 9:06 pm #913443squeakParticipant
“So the extra Chasidish boys can marry the extra Litvish girls.”
Someone who is “extra litvish” would probably be compatible with someone else who is “extra litvish” and not the other extreme. Maybe someone moderately litvish can marry someone moderately chassidish.
Kidding aside, the chassidish girls are comaptible with litvish boys and do marry each other. But darned if you’ll find many litvish girls willing to buy into and marry chassidishe boys.
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