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The book 1984 by George Orwell seems to becoming a reality. They have been playing the long game, instilling fear and brainwashing the masses to submit to the tyrannical control. At first they were shy and spoke with hints and embarrassment. But now they are being open about everything. DeBlasio is openly saying vaccinated can enjoy life but unfortunately the unvaccinated will not be able to do many things in life anymore .
If this isn’t a wake up call to all the ignorant liberals who went along with this I don’t know what is! They will come for you too eventually. Rights are being openly taken away from citizens. It doesn’t happen in one day it’s a process and it’s happening fast. You all asked how did the Holocaust come about or any other control over people. Here is your answer it was a long process of conditioning the minds of the masses to a point where they will accept anything that is imposed upon them. Even in Mitzraym/Egypt slavery didn’t start in one day. It happened slowly they convinced them it was for their own good. Even the Ghetto in Aushwitz has the sign “Arbeit Macht Frei”. All nice heartwarming slogans that are “for your own good”. Familiar? We are hearing the same things now in 2021 “for your own safety”, “for the greater good”. Nothing starts overnight that’s the mistake people make about not taking things seriously.
This is happening all over the world as the Governments are learning from one another and openly admitted that NYC is taking the vax pass idea from France regardless of the protesting. It’s truly becoming a one world Government. I think people have to protest en mass since it will soon be too late.
So get your friends together and start protesting
To scream fire in a crowded theater is not free speech as to infect others by being unvaccinated.
When mindless politicians throw gasoline on the fire of political “resistance” to taking the vaccine, wearing masks etc. and then complain about their “freedoms” being restricted, I could care less. Vaccination does work and reduces (but does not eliminate) risk of infection. At least until the current wave is over, businesses should have the absolute right to limit access to vaccinated only. The unvaccinated can eat outside or at home.
Rightwriter,
It’s not being cool, it’s “so what do you want done”?
To kvetch?
Reb E, firstly, being that the vaccine is bh very effective, why is it anyone’s business if I am vaccinated? How is it any different than pre-covid flu? And besides, they’re now suggesting that the vaccinated may actually spread the virus MORE. The problem is, is that the government, and government medical agencies, are able to tell you to do whatever they want, all in the name of “public health”, whether it makes sense or not. And I don’t mean whether or not it makes sense to me, I mean whether or not it makes sense to outside doctors and experts. And much of the current policy doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. Oh but you better listen because “public health”.
The vaccinated don’t get as sick to end up in the hospital and die as admitted by Senator Graham. The delta variant is very dangerous to the unvaccinated, so it is recommended to vaccinate which is the governments job to publicize the latest science.
> vaccinated don’t get as sick to end up in the hospital and die
the risk is proportional to exposure. 95% efficiency quoted from Phase 3 were under condition of “sort of” blind test – ostensibly, the subject did not know what they got [we know now that many of those who got a real vaccine felt it, but still …]. so 95% [20x] is under assumption that people behave same way. If you used to keep SD and now dance at the weddings, then your reduction is less. And may decrease with time. On the other hand, T-cells, etc seem to offer long-term protection against worst outcomes.
on a stupid side, CDC, and doctors who “follow their science”, recommends against doing antibody tests to see if antibody levels are holding because “it is not yet approved”, despite papers showing serious correlation between antibody levels and protection on average. CDC explains, in their usual amateur social engineering style, that they do not want people to see high antibody results and then behave irresponsibly. Of course, as now 50+% are already irresponsible, there is value to identify people who have low levels and are at highest risk and, thus, should be more cautious.
Welcome to 2021, where laws made to encourage people to get vaccinated make you into the next Hitler but laws that suppress legal voting, requiring a Driver’s license, and attempting to overthrow an election are completely fine.
And that, my friends, is called gaslighting.
“the store owners wont even have a say it will be city workers at the doors waiting to see your papers.“
Sounds like a great way to create thousands of well paying government jobs 🙂
Syag, true but I think rightwriter really believes it
rightwriter, Ive enjoyed your comments many made me chuckle. This one in particular threw me off
“At first the mask mandate was a conspiracy, then the lockdown was a conspiracy, then the covid passports was a conspiracy, then the vaccine mandate was a conspiracy…STILL a conspiracy? I feel like we are living in a science fiction novel. I guess we will see what happens after the summer as I predicted would get much worse since they cannot control the masses in the heat of summer. Once they start “enforcing” these mandates the store owners wont even have a say it will be city workers at the doors waiting to see your papers.”
As I skimmed through the thread I assumed it was an opponent pointing out the fallacy in your argument.
For over a year now, you have been decrying all measures as a “threat” Masks will lead to limiting free speech! lockdowns will lead to people never being allowed to work as they please! You (and those similar minded) have been proven wrong again and again and again, all closed businesses have been allowed to reopen, no Covid detention camps, You are free to continue spouting whatever nonsense you please.I’m curious what is the matter now. WHY does the government want you to get a vaccine? Do you believe there is a tracker? Is it to get people sick? Why would they do that? kill people? again why?
Just control/power for its own sake? With no deeper goal? to what end? What is their ultimate purpose. I don’t get it, help me wake upSyag,
It is not gaslighting . It is called sarcasm.
(Please explain to me, who you do not refer to as one of your friends, your definition of gaslighting.)
I will take away the sarcasm.
Nothing what De Blasio – or the rest of the world , including our favorite country Eretz Yisroel – is doing in order to save peoples lives makes what is happening into the 1949 novel by George Orwell.
Try to get into Eretz Yisroel without being vaccinated ! Or Europe ! Or anywhere else in the world
Making laws to protect peoples lives that infringes on their personal freedoms has absolutely zero to do with the 1949 novel by George Orwell or Hitler. YM”SH
Maybe you can explain the premise and the themes of the 1949 novel by George Orwell so that the people who never read the book can understand ?
It is up for debate whether a law whose sole goal is to get people vaccinated is proper, constitutional or will save people from harming their own and other’s health.
But to call it anything similar to Hitler YM”SH – like rightwriter did – twice! – deserves only sarcasm and not a real response.
ubiquitin,
“I’m curious what is the matter now. WHY does the government want you to get a vaccine? Do you believe there is a tracker? Is it to get people sick? Why would they do that? kill people? again why?
Just control/power for its own sake? With no deeper goal? to what end? What is their ultimate purpose. I don’t get it, help me wake up”Widespread conflicts of interest among private pharmaceutical companies and the governmental health apparatus and media companies lead to policies and politics favoring the solutions and rhetoric that most benefit those companies’ profits. Vaccines are both extremely profitable and low risk due to laws limiting liability. And associating vaccine and health policy hesitancy solely with Trump and his supporters eliminated the traditional left wing source of skepticism to authority with astonishing effectiveness.
Thumbs-Up to rightwriter. Dr. Zelenko called the vaccines Zyklon B, when interviewed by Dr. Mercola. Also in that video, or was it a different vid., a former top guy who quit Pfizer challenged the false propaganda, because even when a “variant” varies by as much as 20-percent, there’s still supposed to be immunity once you’re vaccinated. [i.e. that’s how it works with other vaccines]
Anti-vaxxers, as opposed to those who have real medical conditions that preclude getting the jab, are doing a great deal of damage. I refer the O.P. to Jacobson vs, Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905).
rightwriter
“Deblasio announced you need to be vaccinated in order to participate in society starting next month.”
Got it so no freedoms taken away. Except the freedom not to be vaccinated, but I am not really familiar with this freedom.“And yes they have built covid detention camps it was openly on the news.”
I missed it. Source please?
“They maybe haven’t used them yet”
ah so fear mongering. Got it!
“The ultimate purpose is power and control.”
That’s it just control for control’s sake?“Look up communism and wonder why the leaders never stepped down from their position.”
I looked it up. Its because they lived well, they took advantage of the system and people to enrich themselves.“Notice a pattern?”
Yes. It isn’t hidden. The goal is to convince everyone. meaning everyone. It isn’t a secret conspiracy you uncovered it is the stated goal.Avram
I’m sorry I still don’t get it. The Government is encouraging and paying for the vaccines (yes with tax payer money obviously) what are they gaining? Are they getting kickbacks from the pharmaceutical company. Is that the plan? So De Blasio is being paid by the pharmaceutical company to mandate their vaccine?
right writer,
The term “covid detention camps” is deliberately using terminology to obscure facts. That is one of the premises of the book 1984 .
NY does not have any “covid detention camps” nor has it built any.
The term is probably referring to designated government facilities for people in quarantine, and thousands of Bochurim and Seminary girls that went to learn in Israel this year understood the need for them and actively participated in getting an Aliyah from them.
The Government has the power to make laws or else the world would be a hefkervelt.
Governments do not sit around in a back room and plan on making laws demanding that citizens engage in meaningless acts.
The usage of the terms “power and control ” is more 1984 type language to describe governmental laws.
Citizens do not need to “get used to” “being told what to do” – 1984 type language – and their being told what to do does not lead to new laws.
PANDEMIC.
That is not a word from the 1984 book. It is the word for the deaths of over 650,000 Americans and over 4,000,000 humans worldwide.PANDEMIC.
It is the word for the infection of over 35,000,000 Americans and over 200,000,000 humans.During a pandemic people want to know how not to get infected and stay safe.
It is the government’s responsibility to keep its citizens safe.The CDC is ruling that people who had COVID should still get vaccinared as the antibodies are not that effective against the delta variant.
ubiquitin,
“I’m sorry I still don’t get it. The Government is encouraging and paying for the vaccines (yes with tax payer money obviously) what are they gaining? Are they getting kickbacks from the pharmaceutical company. Is that the plan? So De Blasio is being paid by the pharmaceutical company to mandate their vaccine? “
Thanks for the benevolent condescension, and you’re welcome for the chuckles. Kickbacks imply secret, illegal backroom deals that I would have no real knowledge of so I would have to be speculating or making things up in order to piece together my supposed worldview. Unfortunately, there are a plethora of legal, fully out-in-the-open examples of the revolving door and gravy train between drug companies and government. Here are a few.
The largest drug companies contributed to the vast majority of the sitting congressional members’ campaigns in the last election, totaling over $11 million in contributions. In the last 20 years, drug companies spent hundreds of millions on state-level campaigns, hundreds of millions on Federal level campaigns, and billions on lobbying.
In 2015, Congress provided just $331.6 million of the $1.1 billion budget for the FDA prescription drug oversight, while the drug companies they’re supposed to regulate contributed $796,1 million. Fine, they’re just user fees, but every 5 years the FDA is legally required to negotiate the oversight and approval policies with the industry in order to keep collecting these user fees that are now the majority of the oversight budget. That’s quite the stick industry can bring to that table. Drug companies are really good at getting people addicted to things.
For individual government employees, the pharmaceutical companies they help regulate can provide cushy landing spots when they decide to leave government, such as former CDC director Julie Gerberding landing the role of president of Merck’s vaccine division.
Drug companies frequently run their own clinical trials for new drugs. That includes the major Covid 19 vaccines. With billions of dollars and their job security on the line (Pfizer has already made billions on their vaccine), how motivated are the researchers employed by the drug companies to actually find problems? It’s really easy to find no signal in a complex and messy dataset.
Why on earth would they even need kickbacks?
Reb Eliezer,
“The CDC is ruling that people who had COVID should still get vaccinared as the antibodies are not that effective against the delta variant.”
Actually the opposite is becoming increasingly apparent – that immunity garnered from a Covid infection is more effective and longer lasting against the Delta variant than vaccine garnered immunity. It certainly doesn’t mean we should all run out and catch Covid, but why do none of these US-based mandates allow for T cell or antibody tests to demonstrate immunity?
Jackk- who ever said i don’t consider you a friend?
Avrum- thank you for your research.
I would like to make one amendment to the following statement:
“Deblasio announced you need to be vaccinated in order to participate in society starting next month.”
Got it so no freedoms taken away. Except the freedom not to be vaccinated, but I am not really familiar with this freedom.I think the freedom that is being taken away is the freedom to willingly infect people with a potentially deadly or, in many cases, debilitating illness, which shows a high level of disregard for human life IMO. Living in a society does not give you the “right” to do whatever you like. Society has the right to make rules for people to live in it. If you don’t like the rules, go live in a different society.
COVID is a new illness and not much was known about it in the beginning. Not what symptoms it caused, not what treatments would work, and also not what could help prevent it. As more research and experience has been developed over the last year and one-half, more is known about all of these various issues and the responsible health professionals are able to say with more certainty what symptoms are caused, what treatments work, and what can help prevent it. But because we are so afraid to deprive people of their “rights”, so the professionals are reluctant to make mandates, but rather make strong suggestions. In the beginning it wasn’t clear if these suggestions would really work, but they couldn’t just stand around doing nothing. Some type of effort to fight the disease was necessary. It has only come through trial and error and experiment. So sorry to those of you offended by your loss of rights as being part of the potential errors that have been made along the way. But if you don’t like the society’s rules, go live on an uninhabited island.
Oh Jackk -“During a pandemic people want to know how not to get infected and stay safe.
It is the government’s responsibility to keep its citizens safe”Stop with the Liberal Kool-Aid!
First off, vaccines work as we have observed in the last 50 or more years.IDK about the COVID-19 vaccines.
It usually takes about 9-10 years to be approved, but somehow they managed to get these ones out in record time.
Btw, I took 2 doses of the Vax.When a new infectious disease comes to humans, whether it was caused by a lab or a wild animal market, it needs to be attacked by different ways.
The fact that the Government focused only on one way, is Very suspicious.We knew that Zinc is an Anti-viral, but it needs a way to get into the Cell.
HCQ is one way, but the Federal government never gave approval to treat Covid 19 with HCQ + Zinc.WHY NOT?!?
If it’s the “government’s responsibility to keep its citizens safe”?!?Another drug that Works against COVID-19 is Invermectin.
Why hasn’t the Federal government given an approval to treat Covid 19 with this?!?Avram
No benevolent condescension was intended. Thank you for taking the time to explain it
> it needs to be attacked by different ways. The fact that the Government focused only on one way, is Very suspicious
It is attacked in different ways. There are 100s of ongoing studies of all kind of medicines. Tracing teams work daily to identify new clusters and warn as many people as possible. Testing is done in many businesses to prevent outbreaks.
Still, it appears that Trump vaccine and moderation in partying are best response to Wuhan virus. Possibly, as virus rapidly damages multiple systems by the time most people get to the hospital, it is very hard to contain the damage. As we know, Hashem sends cure before the disease, the way vaccine does.
> immunity garnered from a Covid infection is more effective and longer lasting
Avran, I did not see such research. A reference, please? All papers I saw indicate much higher levels of antibodies after vaccine than disease. T-cell effects are harder to measure directly. Longer-term population studies might show that. Another reason disease is not considered as a pass, as it is hard to know what and how much a person had, while vaccine is a controlled effect.
Health: “The fact that the Government focused only on one way, is Very suspicious.
We knew that Zinc is an Anti-viral, but it needs a way to get into the Cell.
HCQ is one way, but the Federal government never gave approval to treat Covid 19 with HCQ + Zinc.
WHY NOT?!?
If it’s the “government’s responsibility to keep its citizens safe”?!?
Another drug that Works against COVID-19 is Invermectin.
Why hasn’t the Federal government given an approval to treat Covid 19 with this?!?”Why do you think the govt. is handling it this way?
Always_Ask_Questions,
“A reference, please?”
I’m not sure if there is published research yet – it’s coming from the Israeli data where recovered Covid cases account for something like 9 percent of the population, but only around 1 percent of new Covid cases in the latest outbreak, whereas the percentage of fully vaccinated cases is close to the percentage of the population that is vaccinated. Of course there are other possible explanations for this – maybe the latest outbreak is happening in different communities than the ones highly impacted by Covid previously such as the Chareidi neighborhoods, but I do not know why that would be so. Chareidim are certainly out and about, and travel, etc.
“All papers I saw indicate much higher levels of antibodies after vaccine than disease.”
Is there a connection between high antibody counts initially and long lasting immunity? I’m not sure about that.
AAQ -” As we know, Hashem sends cure before the disease, the way vaccine does.”
So do you know that it’s the vaccine & Not Zinc or Invermectin?!?
TIH -“Why do you think the govt. is handling it this way?”
IDK.
But I can guess.
Maybe Fauci and others in government are getting a kickback from Pharm. Companies?
Or maybe it’s too close to Alternative medicine & being that Fauci is from a time when all medical personnel considered Alternative medicine as Quackery?“The book 1984”……what compelled you to read this trief?
When Trump in 2021 wanted to destroy our democracy, we were reminded of 1984.
Health > So do you know that it’s the vaccine & Not Zinc or Invermectin?!?
A good point. Sofek medauraita l’humrah, so I took 2 different vaccines and multi-vitamins to cover multiple bases, and also moved away from hoi polloi.
>> “The book 1984”……what compelled you to read this trief?”
> How do you know its treif “
Don’t know for sure whether any Gedolim read 1984, but R Steinsaltz Z’L was able to recognize a quote from the last page of “Animal farm”, so he read the whole thing – and that book is literally full of hazer.
> what will you do when they won’t let you shop for food because you aren’t updated on your vaccines and booster shots
I’ll order delivery through instacart, a great way to give tzedokah (ok, could be to akum) to hard-working people, while enjoying the peros of mitzva. Order from a Jewish store to have a higher chance to have a Jewish driver.
>> Maybe Fauci and others in government are getting a kickback from Pharm. Companies?
First, stop listening to both Faucis and anti-Faucis, read at least popular science articles like statnews or nature, or better original research (in google scholar for example), even if you won’t understand the whole thing. There are pre-prints to avoid potential bias and censorship.
2nd, a lesson we can all learn from this on moris ayn: alway behave so that people will not suspect you. A lot of government personnel goes to work for same businesses they used to supervise. Is this corruption? sometimes, yes, sometimes, no, but better to avoid.
while looking at info about re-infections, found this interesting article
Moriah Bergwerk, etc Covid-19 Breakthrough Infections in Vaccinated Health Care Workers. New England Journal of Medicine, July 2021 reporting on 1500 vaccinated health care workers. Here are interesting tidbits: 2.5% (40 cases) of them got infected (Covid-alpha) in 14 weeks. Of these, 1/3- no symptoms, 2/3 – mild.
Likely source of infection – 100% unvaccinated persons (60% – household member, 30% – other healthcare worker or patient: 7 out of 11 from just one patient)Most who got infection had low antibody levels – thus antibody level can serve as a marker of risk (contrary to “asinine” CDC recommendation not to do these tests)
Avram > it’s coming from the Israeli data where recovered Covid cases account for something like 9 percent of the population, but only around 1 percent of new Covid cases in the latest outbreak, …
Avram, I started looking at this and I need to talk to your mother: you are browsing either Fbook or RT or something like that, despite having filters on Internet!. Your best defense would be that it was your friend who went This is where these quotes are coming from ..
Seriously, here is what I found so far:
US research early 2021: reinfections are 15x less than those who were not, that is close to what Pfizer showed in control trials (20x). Caveat – this is for the same variant. General views seems to be that previous infection is less protective than vaccine.Also:
– research shows that vaccine produces antibodies that attack more areas of virus than after natural infection, so should be more effective for new variants (Ref 1)– light cases of COVID provide virus only to the respiratory tract, while vaccine to the muscle, so it may develop a weaker response.
Ref 1: Antibodies elicited by mRNA-1273 vaccination bind more broadly to the receptor binding domain than do those from SARS-CoV-2 infection. Greaney AJ, Loes AN, Gentles LE, Crawford KHD, Starr TN, Malone KD, Chu HY, Bloom JD. Sci Transl Med. 2021 Jun 8.
I think that it is sad that instead of being proud of trump for pushing out the vaccines in record time by cutting red tape and Israel for leading the way in vaccinating the population, alt right kooks had to throw out their victory and became the problem. And cuomo is smiling because they can’t accuse him of murder for what he did to nursing home patients when these kooks infected millions due to their reckless disregard for human health
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