August 8, 2021 10:48 am at 10:48 am #1997971
Ari please prove that the unvaccinated are infecting others and please prove that the vaccinated are not infecting others.August 8, 2021 12:01 pm at 12:01 pm #1997993
ari-free > it is sad that instead of being proud of trump for pushing out the vaccines in record time b
I agree. I don’t think the “kooks” fully represent Trump voters. I see in sentiments in other places that
middle America gets it now, saying like “while there are lots of things I did not like about Trump, I liked xxxx”. I wonder whether one of the reasons that people started partying like in roaring 1920s is that Biden is always declaring victory (as Trump also often did), but there is no daily pushback from media and people sense the difference. You may not be watching MSNBC, but you talk to someone who talked to someone who does. Sentiments propagate like viruses.
Could you imagine daily headlines if under Trump vaccination rate would fall down like now – it will US falling behind Germany one day, against Spain another day .. instead, they may write “vaccination rates started going up for 2 weeks ago” – when the rates barely moved from 0.17% of population a day to 0.21%, comparing to 1% that many countries sustained for several months.
Or, if Trump would not have an FDA head _candidate_ for 8 months. instead, we are told – it is hard to find someone who is qualified and also wants the job and also is not objected by progressives and by moderates … so, it takes Biden longer to fill a job, than for Trump t develop vaccines. Just think, what would be happening if Delta would have arrived and vaccines would be still in development or waiting for authorization? (FYI – FDA says it started working “24/7” on full authorization in August after Delta arrived – so, they were 8/5 before, I guess)August 8, 2021 4:59 pm at 4:59 pm #1997994
> please prove that the unvaccinated are infecting others and please prove that the vaccinated are not infecting others.
yes on 1st part:
Israeli just published study – 40 out of 1500 vaccinated medical personnel were infected in 3 months, _ALL_ 40 were infected by unvaccinated, 60% in family (maybe kids?), 40% by patients
no on 2nd:
Provincetown MA July 4 – when locals and visitors went to party like there is no COVID, hundreds of people infected, most vaccinated.
So, it seems that when people behave under “new normal”, most transmission is through unvaccinated. If they fully disregard caution and congregate in large crowds, then vaccinated will transmit also.
edited – you should think that the world’s R0 stands at 1.00000
and it is up to you whether it will become 1.00001 (and pandemic will grow) or 0.99999 (and pandemic will eventually stop).August 9, 2021 10:17 am at 10:17 am #1998044
New normal! Do you even know what you are saying? Why does it make sense in your mind that people should live in a “New Normal” way of life? And regardless of normal or new normal why should vaccinated transmit or receive the virus at all that shows the vaccine is not as effective and also proves that they can still transfer it so it makes zero sense to demand everyone get the vaccine. Besides there is no way to prove the vaccine is working because there are still so many people who did not get the vaccine and never got the virus. Also why aren’t you mentioning those with antibodies which are protected from all the strains? Why should they need to be vaccinated when the vaccinated are spreading the virus regardless?
And if you think you are so smart about this since you got the vaccine, Kathryn Wylde President and CEO of the Partnership for New York City was on CNBC excitedly explaining how “we will need to get booster shots for the rest of our lives so the app will need to constantly be up to date with your vaccine record”.
So if you thought you were safe and can enjoy being part of society since you are vaxxed, think again because you will constantly need new shots for the “new variants” and until you update you won’t be allowed entrance.
This is bad and even vaccinated people should boycott this system instead of feeling so privileged, since this will get out of hand fast and they too will be required to constantly get “jabbed” anytime the variant/vaccine is uldated. And they won’t be able to avoid it since it’s all on record in your app and their database.
Oh and guess who is helping out to oversee this, IBM. Sounds familiar to anyone? Hint: they were in charge of database and filing of Jews back in Germany. I guess history does repeat itself.August 9, 2021 12:06 pm at 12:06 pm #1998212Avram in MDParticipant
“I started looking at this and I need to talk to your mother: you are browsing either Fbook or RT or something like that, despite having filters on Internet!”
Nah, there was a story right here on YWN titled “Mystery in Israel: This is why the 4th wave hasn’t spread in the Chareidi sector”. There was another story about it in the Times of Israel and is fairly easy to Google. And after reading these I checked some of the near real-time data available online in Israel, and it was reasonably consistent with these articles. Good try on the ad hominem fallacy though.
“US research early 2021: reinfections are 15x less than those who were not, that is close to what Pfizer showed in control trials (20x). Caveat – this is for the same variant.”
Caveat number 2: This study was done in early 2021 when the arms were practically still in band-aids. That gives us no information on how long the vaccine induced immunity lasts, which is the shaila now confronting Israel.
“research shows that vaccine produces antibodies that attack more areas of virus than after natural infection, so should be more effective for new variants (Ref 1)
– light cases of COVID provide virus only to the respiratory tract, while vaccine to the muscle, so it may develop a weaker response.”
“Should” and “may” are words of forecast, and forecasts can be verified. It’s still quite early in the game, and I did not write in definitive terms and provided my own caveats, but the recent data from Israel does raise some questions about how long the vaccine induced immunity lasts. But dear me, I keep forgetting that only some people are allowed to “always ask questions” and only certain questions are considered ok to ask.August 9, 2021 6:19 pm at 6:19 pm #1998340
@alwaysaskqueations…did you also see the study of how 14 people who received 3 boosters contracted the virus and even some hospitalized in Israel?August 9, 2021 6:48 pm at 6:48 pm #1998357
rightwriter > Why does it make sense in your mind that people should live in a “New Normal” way of life?
This attitude seems to be underlying theme of people who refuse to follow any guidance. Psychologists might be talking about denial, but I think Jews call this “rebels against Hashem”. He sends us a certain reality and we are to respond at our best. People lived through wars, epidemics, pogroms, crusades, recessions, revolutions, and every time, we need to figure out what to do. The position of “Hashem I do not like that interfere with my plans – I have it all figured out: learning zman, summer travel plans, please do not bother me” is untenable.
TMI may be helping to create confusion here: you are quoting one study after another, but it looks like that you simply listen to other people quoting some studies and you are not aware of other studies that were not quoted in your channel. Give the author and title of the study and read it yourself, at least an abstract and a conclusion, and then let’s discuss.August 9, 2021 6:49 pm at 6:49 pm #1998360
Avram, I agree that the current question is: to what degree immunity by vaccine or disease w/ previous strains are effective against Delta, so old results are not appropriate any more.
Two things to note:
1) growing number of cases now affects everyone who was not vaccinated. I hear again, unfortunately, of people in dire state. You may want to check with people in your circle, esp, anyone over 40 and with any kind of health conditions, whether they are vaccinated. And I would not count on a mild case to provide protection, unless confirmed by recent antibody test.
2) it is clear that unvaccinated are threat to vaccinated, and government is not there yet. There are lots of unvaccinated workers in nursing homes and any other facilities for elderly. Check with your relatives and friends where they are. Maybe get them a 3rd vaccine without waiting for CDC.August 9, 2021 7:35 pm at 7:35 pm #1998368
“2) it is clear that unvaccinated are threat to vaccinated“
What is the “threat”? That they get a cold?August 9, 2021 7:56 pm at 7:56 pm #1998378
“2) it is clear that unvaccinated are threat to vaccinated“
coffee: What is the “threat”? That they get a cold?
A fair question. Depends on the recipient. The good news for un-vaxed would be that if indeed vaxed people do not transmit much under reasonable conditions, then un-vaxed need to worry “only” about one contact. So, if you are in contact with only healthy young people, then indeed most of them would only get a cold and probably will not transmit to their friends who will transmit to the grandmas … If you are working or davening or in any other pro-longed contact with old or possibly unhealthy people, then they can still get seriously sick.August 10, 2021 9:24 am at 9:24 am #1998442
rightwriter, I agree with you 100%. I wrote a long comment which was not posted, how we can learn from history of not so long ago regarding rights slowly being stripped while people closed their eyes to it until it was too late.August 10, 2021 9:27 am at 9:27 am #1998449
Always ask questions,
“A fair question. Depends on the recipient. The good news for un-vaxed would be that if indeed vaxed people do not transmit much under reasonable conditions, then un-vaxed need to worry “only” about one contact.“
I’m not worried about the unvaxxed they should worry about themselves (if they don’t why should I) which is why Reb eliezer agreed with me (and I said we should make a kiddush) if the unvaxxed want to be safe, take the shot!
I’m not worried about a cold and I don’t worry about people that don’t worry about themselves
I hope I’m clearAugust 10, 2021 12:07 pm at 12:07 pm #1998508
Philosopher, the question is if it already is too late…August 10, 2021 1:15 pm at 1:15 pm #1998366
rightwriter, you are 100% right. It has always boggled my mind that Jews in Germany were ok with their rights slowly being taken away by Hitler y”s and his henchmen. And then when they couldn’t escape or liquidate heir assets anymore they were pushed into cattle cars to be “relocated” to work camps…and the Jews believed them until the end. The same was with Jews all over Europe after hearing of the Nazis atrocities, they didn’t want to believe what was happening.
And now as more and more of our basic rights are being taken away and people are bullied into submission, foolish people keep on excusing the behaviour of those in power grabbing more and more power and taking away our basic rights and our choices through intimidation, threats and bullying. And now with “infrastructure bill” (+ the next 3.5 trillion dollar bill that’s coming afterwards) they are going even further, wanting to rob us of more rights and money. It’s so clear what is happening, the invading the privacy of our cars, milage taxes and unlimited spending of taxpayer’s money by those in power.August 10, 2021 3:32 pm at 3:32 pm #1998626emes nisht shekerParticipant
Philosopher – the amount of things you say that are just wrong are simply disturbing.
Very few Jews had the ability to leave Europe. Where could they have gone? The US, Palestine, and other places were all blocked off to but a few.
Your comparing things to a fantasy about what people had the ability to do to make your point that it was somehow all voluntary and that is what is going on today, is simply intellectual dishonest.
How about a different viewpoint. We can have vaccine mandates and restrictions due to COVID without it taking away rights that result in genocide. The very nature of society is giving up some level of personal freedom so we can live together. You want to make slippery slope arguments, then why not say that laws that make drunk driving illegal is risking going full Nazi. There always has to be a balance and suggesting that any specific restriction you don’t like is somehow dangerous is simply disingenuous. Rather, I would suggest the question is, as it pretty much always has been, what as a society do we accept or not. I am fine with vaccine mandates for one.August 10, 2021 3:33 pm at 3:33 pm #1998633
Apparently it’s easy to ignore things and feel it will just pass as we are seeing for ourselves. Easy to call others conspiracy believers and spreaders. Possibly the Jews in Europe felt that way as well and couldn’t believe something like that could happen in a modern Germany. But it did.August 10, 2021 5:24 pm at 5:24 pm #1998641
coffee > I’m not worried about the unvaxxed they should worry about themselves
What is the halakha about this? You don’t have to help the donkey if the owner is not helping, but I think we are still obligated to help our fellow Jews. To what extent? And, as I mentioned, they are a threat to immunocompromised vaxed people, if they come in direct contact with them.August 10, 2021 5:26 pm at 5:26 pm #1998642
rightwriter > Possibly the Jews in Europe felt that way as well and couldn’t believe something like that could happen in a modern Germany. But it did.
I am with you here. My motto is “if you are paranoid, it does not mean there is no one after you”.
Still, you are not helping everyone to be on a lookout for danger, if you are quoting totally discredited, and even anti-semitic, sources.August 10, 2021 6:12 pm at 6:12 pm #1998672
“What is the halakha about this?
That’s a question for Rabbi Hoffman
“And, as I mentioned, they are a threat to immunocompromised vaxed people, if they come in direct contact with them.”
So they should wear a mask! ( both unvaxxed and immunocompromised)August 10, 2021 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #1998688
Alwaysask, what antisemitic source did I quote. Of course the biggest problem for Jews to leave Germany was that they had nowhere to go for financial reasons or even legal reason since most countries didn’t allow them in. And it wasnt just Germany it was most of Europe so that made it even more difficult to go anywhere since no one knew where it was safe.
On the other hand there were many who didn’t believe something like that could happen in Germany,and I don’t blame them as the “small” anti semitic incidents were easy to shrug off just like lehavdil we do here in America Things tend to happen in stages. Germany was also good at hiding it such as when they hosted the Olympics and eased off the Jews for a bit so the world wouldn’t become suspicious. Do you actually believe something can happen here in America? Difficult to imagine right? Maybe in these times not as difficult as we see America and the world changing in a way that noone believe possible.
I’m not here to scare anyone at all. Even those who are asleep will wake up once it’s tooate so I can’t really force anyone to realize what’s happening. But we definitely are seeing something develop not only in America but the entire world. The only thing that can be done is to stop it before it’s too late because it won’t end with just the virus. You ask what can you do? Small things like not participating or visiting restaurants and any other venues which requires proof of vaccine whether you are vaccinated or not. It will develop into supermarket checkpoints and other. Not only for unvaccinated but keep in mind they said we will need boosters our entire life so even the vaccinated will be forced to keep getting jabbed with whatever substance they require anytime they need to buy some bread at the grocery.
So unless that’s the future you want, boycott this vaccine passport no matter how privileged it makes you feel because that won’t last. This will evolve into things that will make you forget that it all started due to a virus “for your own safety”. Hence the “new normal” which seems to already have a fanbase.August 11, 2021 12:14 am at 12:14 am #1998720
> what antisemitic source did I quote.
Thai-German DrAugust 11, 2021 12:35 am at 12:35 am #1998724
RW, Hashem sent this plague, we need to deal with that and use it as a source of teshuva.
Consider many things that you were doing routinely, now they might have small risk associated with them, so you may want to re-think: should you be going to restaurants as you did before? which asifas are worth attending? which travel is essential? which meetings can be done online? you now have a good excuse to avoid unproductive things you were doing before.
there were a lot of small and large changes in the society, such as local ordinances allowing restaurants to occupy sidewalks, Trump’s enabling Medicare payments for tele-medicine, current Florida decision to allow whole districts to use vouchers to avoid “mask bullying”.August 11, 2021 1:28 am at 1:28 am #1998731
Fine but what is the solution here long term. It’s one thing to be extra cautious for a limited time, but is everyone going to be considered a carrier of covid forever? If both vaccinated and non vaxxed can transfer the virus even without being sick so is the mask going to be part of our dress code? They know and admitted that there is no way to get zero covid in the world so what are they trying to accomplish?August 11, 2021 10:09 am at 10:09 am #1998796
emes nisht sheker, I specifically spoke about the Jews of Germany where the anti-Semitic laws started first and not about Galicia or Poland. Many German Jews forsaw what’s coming, (although they probably couldn’t imagine in their wildest dreams how bad it would be, but they understood that Jews will be targets) and therefore they liquidated their assets and fled the country. There was a possibility of doing that prior to the war but many German Jews were complacent thinking it will blow over, they believed the Germans were cultured and it they never dreamed the Germans would commit such crimes against them. In other parts of Europe, in Hungary for example, the Jewish leadership constantly told the Hungarian Jews that nothing will happen to them and they were misled while they had time to escape. I am not bringing this from my own made-up historical version, I am repeating what I read in history books and Holocaust biographies.August 12, 2021 4:16 pm at 4:16 pm #1999405BaalHaboozeParticipant
Thank you for this thread, I just noticed it and read through it. I am glad that it wasn’t taken down like all the other platforms that talk ‘blasphemy’ against the vaccine nonsensical plan/campaign/propaganda. Glad this is an open discussion without nivul peh, or name calling. yes there’s tension from both sides but at least there’s this decent human discussion, something that we don’t see much of these days.August 16, 2021 12:06 pm at 12:06 pm #2000329
So first it was social distancing indoors. Then it was also social distancing outdoors. Then it was wearing a mask only if you can’t social distance. Then it became wearing a mask regardless of social distancing. Then it was vaccine and can remove mask. Then it’s vaccine and wear mask indoors. Vaccine mandate was only for health care workers. Then it became for city employees as well. Now it’s strongly encouraged that all employers require vaccines. The requirement for vaccine pass was only for gyms indoor dining and bars. Now it’s also for all city museums and indoor venues.
Is it just me or does anyone else see a pattern here? Other than the constant flip flop decisions of Yes mask or no mask needed, there has been a consistent add on of restrictions. It’s only a matter of time when they say you cannot shop for food or live in an apartment building with others without being vaccinated or constantly boostered if you are vaccinated. And everyone is ok with this and going along with it? Those vaccinated who have such pride and think the unvaccinated should be punished and are promoting this new way of life, don’t think you won’t be affected because you will also be forced to keep updating your shots every time they come up with a new one. And believe me they will have many boosters as they already clearly said we will need boosters the rest of our lives. That might be once a year, twice a year or 3 times who knows.
So you are welcoming in this new world for your own ego without even realizing how much it will affect you as well! Everyone should boycott this and hopefully we will still have a chance to save humanity because thats what this is a war on humanity and a battle to save it!
Is everything still a conspiracy btw?August 16, 2021 1:37 pm at 1:37 pm #2000350
“So you are welcoming in this new world for your own ego without even realizing how much it will affect you as well!”
How will it affect us as well?
I already get a yearly flu vaccine (as I recommend you do) So I’ll get yearly covid vaccines too (if indicated) , may be they’ll even be able to combine them? Is that the war on humanity you mention?August 16, 2021 2:02 pm at 2:02 pm #2000366
RW > Fine but what is the solution here long term.
You don’t know what the long term is. Maybe, this or next vaccine will work. Or, the virs, h’V will mutate to worse. Or, maybe one of the evil empire will find a way to weaponize the virus (further).
Address the current problem.August 16, 2021 2:03 pm at 2:03 pm #2000368
RW > Those vaccinated who have such pride and think the unvaccinated should be punished and are promoting this new way of life,
We might naturally evolve into 2 species: one with vaccine, and one with Covid. We can have separate schools, shuls. In US, we can have separate states that can make you safe from all regulations, except the federal ones – and even those can be mostly rescinded by the state. But, please, in the areas where you are a minority. either do not walk among vaccinated or have a sign on you so that others could avoid you.August 16, 2021 3:18 pm at 3:18 pm #2000408
Always ask”either do not walk among vaccinated or have a sign on you so that others could avoid you.”
-or just wear a yellow JUDE star. Do you see how the problem starts? In your mind you see nothing wrong with this thinking and that’s the danger to humanity.August 16, 2021 4:30 pm at 4:30 pm #2000435
Alwaysask”Fine but what is the solution here long term.”
Dude I just told you what the solution is. And that is fight the illegal totalitarian implementations that the governments are forcing on humanity worldwide. And that means to boycott places which require you show a vaccination card whether you are vaccinated or not. The reason is by doing that it’s still possible to disrupt the flow and break the momentum that they have gained.
Don’t think that it ends with you not being able to go to the gym or dine at a restaurant. This will end with total control and not allowing you to even go buy food. I mapped out how things slowly got more restricted, already they are requiring vaccination passes at museums as well. So ask yourself what’s next and do you really want to have to keep taking shots Everytime they require new ones in order to live in society? What will you do if they start going into people homes like Nazis In the middle of the night and forcefully injecting people or taking them to detention camps since they are a “danger to society”? Will you still believe it’s for the greater good?
It might be difficult to imagine such an extremity as of yet since we trust that we live in the land of the free that adheres to a constitution.
But that’s how these things work it’s a long process in order that people accept it. If it happened overnight no one would be ok with it. And once it does get to the extreme situation and people realize, it’s already too late. The Holocaust happened as well and none believed omething like that could truly happen. But it didn’t happen overnight, the effort started from 1933 with brainwashing propaganda and in 1939 Jews and others were being sent to their deaths.
Also the fact that they don’t even mention or acknowledge natural immunity/antibodies should alarm you. They even tried telling everyone it only lasts 3 months which is so false as the antibodies are still keeping up in people for 1.5 years and running. So it makes you wonder where the science is and why are they pushing the vaccines against scientific facts where people have immunity?August 16, 2021 5:05 pm at 5:05 pm #2000442
@rightwriter Hold your horses there Marjorie Taylor-Greene. Last I checked, you’re in a frum forum where Churban Europa comparisons are frowned upon. If you said the same thing in a goyishe forum, you’d probably be called an anti-Semite.August 16, 2021 5:11 pm at 5:11 pm #2000465🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
yserbius – I think you missed what he was saying. Although I think it is more ridiculous than anti semetic. I understood him to be saying that people like AAQ have become so entrentched (I am kindly leaving you out of this round 🙂 ) that they are willing to agree to these dangerous “you to the left, we to the right” set ups albeit in the name of covid, but once you are going on that path (which I personally found horrifying and can’t believe you werent calling him out on it) the seperations can take all sorts of “criteria”.August 16, 2021 5:47 pm at 5:47 pm #2000471
“these dangerous “you to the left, we to the right” set ups ”
We have those set ups all the time. Fast pass ticket holders this way, first class passengers up front, EZ pass only. There is nothing wrong with separating people to the right or the left.
(in caps, it is a critical distinction)
only if it is done by their choice, Differentiating based on Race, gender, etc which hare not choices Like whites to the front, (not to mention the Holocaust), are not remotely similarAugust 16, 2021 6:20 pm at 6:20 pm #2000491
Yes ubiquitin, driving in the faster lane because you have an ez pass is definitely the same as being allowed to live in a society because you were forced to get a vaccine. (I’m being sarcastic)
Also what you say about differentiating, once you give an opening for separation the opportunities are endless. Especially when you cooperate.August 16, 2021 6:40 pm at 6:40 pm #2000495jackkParticipant
I find it appalling that someone on YWN can use phrases such as “-or just wear a yellow JUDE star. Do you see how the problem starts? In your mind you see nothing wrong with this thinking and that’s the danger to humanity.” and ” And once it does get to the extreme situation and people realize, it’s already too late. The Holocaust happened as well and none believed something like that could truly happen. But it didn’t happen overnight, the effort started from 1933 with brainwashing propaganda and in 1939 Jews and others were being sent to their deaths.”
I already mentioned above that the comparison to and the leap to a holocaust is so farcical that it does not deserve a real response.August 16, 2021 6:40 pm at 6:40 pm #2000496
” driving in the faster lane because you have an ez pass is definitely the same as being allowed to live in a society because you were forced to get a vaccine”
Nope, not the same. But they are much much much more similar than comparing “being allowed to live in a society because you were forced to get a vaccine” to being allowed to live becasue you aren’t Jewish.August 16, 2021 6:44 pm at 6:44 pm #2000501🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
jackk – (I hope your point doesn’t lose credibility by my agreeing with it but…) thank you, exactly right.August 16, 2021 6:45 pm at 6:45 pm #2000503
>> And that means to boycott places which require you show a vaccination card whether you are vaccinated or not.
So, we agree. Please boycott places that require a vaccination card and I hope you will not define us freedom to congregate in such places. Unfortunately, many anti-vax/mask/SD people disregard privacy of others. Now, I can see people without masks and duck anti-SD kissers, but vaccination status is harder to check. Anecdotally, many would lie or ignore recommendations/regulations, or even show fake cards. I am really happy you are not one of those.August 16, 2021 7:15 pm at 7:15 pm #2000511
@syag-lchochma I’m not as upset at AAQ’s dystopian vision of separate shuls and schools for those who are unvaccinated. Mainly because getting a vaccine is a choice to take on a tiny near-impercievable risk to ones self in order to help others. So while I don’t like the idea of “separate but equal”, I also don’t have a lot of sympathy for those who choose not to help protect their fellow menchen.August 16, 2021 7:17 pm at 7:17 pm #2000510
maybe we should go to basics on human obligations? Bava Basra – two houses of different height. The one with the higher roof has to build a fence so not to intrude on privacy of the person below him.
So, a person who might be a danger to others has to act, not the one who needs to be protected. You don’t have to take a vaccine. Just distance from vaccinated people, wear a mask, do weekly PCR test, wear a sign that you are not vaccinated, move to remote location, move to states where most pepole are not vaccinating – there are multiple ways you can act – in addition to multiple vaccines from 3-4 different technologies (mRNA, JJ, Novavax, Sinopharm).
Could you indicate which of these paths you are willing to follow to at least some extent? You already indicated that you are willing to avoid places that require vaccination. This is great, I respect that. Just look over the whole list, disengage for a moment from your worries about the whole world, amd analyze what you personally are willing to do.August 16, 2021 7:36 pm at 7:36 pm #2000521
Jack why do you find it appalling? I know many frum who feel that having to be labeled and singled out for not getting a vaccine is very similar to what was happening in Germany before the Holocaust. There are even Rabbis who have put out videos discussing these dangers and parables to how things started there lehavdil. I don’t see what’s so offensive about that. I am comparing the similarities of escalation toward historical disaster.
Oh and if you are so offended, don’t forget that in Germany it didn’t start with the Jews. It was a generalization of peoples and then narrowed down on to the Jewish people. It always ends up with the Jews so just keep that in mind when you advocate for unvaccinated people to be distinguished by wearing something that shows everyone that they are different and “diseased”, yes similar to the yellow JUDE star!
And if you think that’s bizarre and offensive, don’t forget that here in America in modern 2020 there were open air ghetto “red zones” with nonstop media coverage of how the virus is out of control due to Jews, and don’t forget how the media tried to pin down a Jew as “patient zero” since he was the first who was publicized for going to the hospital. They kept saying how the virus spread in NYC due to him and published his picture and mapped out his neighborhood. So in a time where anti semitism is unbashfully spoken, yes it is concerning of what could happen with a totalitarian government and brainwashed people.
Not comparing the Holocaust to wearing a mask I’m comparing the process of brainwashing the masses and spreading propaganda which lead to things such as the Holocaust, communism, and other atrocities against humanity. I didn’t say wearing a mask is the same as when Jews were sent to gas chambers so don’t manipulate my words all of you!
And if you are ok with dividing people into tiers for simply living in society then you should self reflect on yourself , not others. Because all of us will have to suffer due to you. Just like in the beginning the government said Stores aren’t obligated to have a mask policy, all the liberal thinkers decided to make it their store policy and all the people who went along with it made it become mandatory since the government saw how easy it is to make mandates for people to willingly follow. So look how far we’ve gone in about a year. We went from non mandatory mask wearing in stores, to mandatory proof of being innoculated in order to enter an indoor establishment. All because of people like you who are ruining life for others.
You want to wear a mask go ahead. You want to take a vaccine go ahead. But since when did masks and vaccines start to work only based on what someone else does!? You are openly admitting that the mask and vaccine is not effective in that case!
Interesting how they never said that with flu or any other virus. That the only way to be protected is by what someone else does.August 16, 2021 8:04 pm at 8:04 pm #2000524
Alwaysask” You already indicated that you are willing to avoid places that require vaccination”
Are you messing with us or just lack basic comprehension skills? You keep repeating that I said I am willing to avoid vaxpass venues. When did I say that! I clearly wrote (in answer to your question) that both vaccinated and nonvaccinated should boycott these venues who require proof of vaccination in order for things not to get worse.
Also yserbius, stop acting like every person is carrying the virus! There are so many people who got covid and developed the natural immunity antibodies which is superior to the vaccine that noone is mentioning. Why would they be required to get vaccinated when it’s been proven to be more effective against variants, longer lasting, and actually works!
And if you try saying they can spread it, first of all you there is no proof of that, and in fact quite the contrary the CDC openly admitted that vaccinated can and are spreading the virus, it’s not effective against variants, and that many vaccinated are getting infected. So what’s your problem!August 16, 2021 11:25 pm at 11:25 pm #2000530
RW> Are you messing with us or just lack basic comprehension skills? You keep repeating that I said I am willing to avoid vaxpass venues. When did I say that! I clearly wrote (in answer to your question) that both vaccinated and nonvaccinated should boycott these venues who require proof of vaccination in order for things not to get worse.
I understand that you want me to boycott them, but I think your boycott would be sufficient. I hope you do not expect us respecting your desires more than you respect ours.August 16, 2021 11:35 pm at 11:35 pm #2000532
RW > But since when did masks and vaccines start to work only based on what someone else does!? You are openly admitting that the mask and vaccine is not effective in that case!
Do you really not understand concepts of probability and virus propagation? Each of the tools protect to a certain degree. If you are not careful, you have a chance to pick up the virus and expose others. If you are in a prolong close contact with someone, say live in the same apartment, chances go higher. If someone is not healthy or old, their chances are still high even if they are vaccinated and masked. Say, you are working in a nursing home – would you still not do anything? test? mask?August 17, 2021 1:21 am at 1:21 am #2000544
Alwaysask” Say, you are working in a nursing home – would you still not do anything? test? mask?”
Working in a nursing home is different than being allowed to carry on with your life in society. Yes in a nursing home possibly you should get tested to make sure you dont expose elderly to the virus. And if you want to wear a mask make sure its at least an N95 or higher if you want it to actually have a chance of preventing anything because anything less is pretty much useless.
How come they never did this with the flu btw? To mandate that everyone gets the vaccine?August 17, 2021 3:02 pm at 3:02 pm #2000734
@rightwriter I’ve said this in previous threads, maybe to you maybe to someone else.
Those who don’t take precautions against COVID (vaccines, social distancing, etc.) are like people speeding on a road. The biggest danger is to themselves (crashing into a wall), the second biggest danger is to others like them (crashing into a speeding car). But they are also endangering those who are trying their best not to speed.
So if a speed limit is impinging on your personal liberties and freedom of choice, then fine! Go to the Great Salt Flats or the German Autobahn or somewhere else where you’re allowed to speed. Otherwise, follow the law and keep other people safe.August 17, 2021 3:33 pm at 3:33 pm #2000760
yeserbius, why are you conveniently ignoring the fact that this was never the case with the flu or other viruses? Also why are they not even counting those with natural antibodies which are superior to the vaccine?August 17, 2021 5:07 pm at 5:07 pm #2000777
@rightwriter COVID-19 is far deadlier than the flu. For one, it’s far more likely for a healthy person to end up in the hospital and/or face long term health problems from COVID-19 than the flu. But more importantly, it’s much much more contagious.
And I am counting natural antibodies. Someone who had COVID already and shows a high number of antibodies in a test is fine and doesn’t need a vaccine. But unless they’re getting tested every two weeks, they will need a vaccine at some point.August 17, 2021 5:34 pm at 5:34 pm #2000772Reb EliezerParticipant
right, abtibodies might not work for delta variant, whereas the vaccine does.
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